Cabbie Posted June 27, 2020 Share #1 Posted June 27, 2020 Hello to all Some help needed please on the deck and ship boats positioning for my Mermaid PP King said in his journal that he had 2 whaleboats and a Jolly boat, i have done some cardboard shapes to represent the boats. Where would the Whaleboats be placed, supported on the deck close to where I have them and would the Jolly boat be hung off Davits at the stern? And how about the size of the boats that i have, look about right? All advice greatly appreciated. Thanks Chris mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 27, 2020 Share #2 Posted June 27, 2020 G'day Chris, Working from what's available: Jolly boat on davits. Boat in water approx 11 feet. Whaleboat location and length (approx 20' 6") Scales are a bit wishy washy so your 20' whaleboats should be fine. mtaylor 1 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted June 27, 2020 Thanks Craig What do you think, should the jolly boat be shorter? And the breadth of the whaleboats narrower? I have seen other sites say a whaleboat is generally 28 ft long 6ft wide. Also they must in a cradle of sorts to sit on the deck? Going by ratios from that last drawing to model it looks like my whaleboats could be a bit longer. Sorry for all the questions Cheers Chris mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 27, 2020 Share #4 Posted June 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Cabbie said: What do you think Chris, what I think is mostly guesses, same as everybody else. Based on the painting, I wouldn't go over 12' for the Jolly boat and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually 10' but in CAD I get about 10' 10". Cradle of some sorts certainly but perhaps wedges. Those boats must have been securely lashed down. Hard to do on a flat surface without crushing them. The last drawing is supposedly to scale, measuring the whaleboat in CAD I get 20' 6" but there must be a margin for error. mtaylor and Cabbie 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted June 28, 2020 Share #5 Posted June 28, 2020 There' another painting of the 'Mermaid' showing her encounter with an Indonesian ship in northern waters. It too shows the boat secured from stern davits, but doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Carrying boats on deck on these cutters was evidently pretty common, as is evidenced by the contemporary painting below of the cutter 'Stag' chasing a French smuggler. The boat on her deck looks very large, but was no doubt essential for a revenue cutter. It will be good to see a model of her carrying her boats - I don't think I've ever seen a cutter model with boats on deck. John mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted June 28, 2020 Share #6 Posted June 28, 2020 Ships boats were specialized tools intended to assist the parent vessel in accomplishing its mission. Their design, therefore, reflected what it (the parent vessel) was intended to do. Even “lifeboats” assumed to exist on ships built by neophyte modelers were actually specially designed to perform a specialized service- to shelter the maximum number of occupants safely in the case of a maritime disaster. I am not familiar with the Mermaid and cutters as a vessel type served in many roles where small fast vessels were preferred. Knowing what Mermaid was designed to do would provide some idea of the types of boats that she carried. Roger mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick01 Posted June 28, 2020 Share #7 Posted June 28, 2020 I recall that when I was researching my version I saw a note somewhere that one of the boats was "broken down" and stored below. However I can't now recall where that was. By the way the instructions with the kit are not the best with the deck furnishings not positioned as per King's sketch and in particular the topsail yard should be "flying" and the halyards for the gaff also not per the sketch. There are some other problems but I can't remember them at the moment. 😞 Rick mtaylor 1 Quote Completed builds:- HM Cutter Mermaid. HMS Endeavour's Longboat Topsail Schooner Enterprize Arab Dhow Sultan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted June 28, 2020 Thanks John It appears i have a little bit of freedom in regards to the whale boats, just have to work out how to hold them to the deck. The jolly boat will be shortened from what i have now back to 12 ft. But I think madness has set in, thinking I am going to make them, but a challenge has been issued and must be honored. Thanks Roger PP King use the Mermaid for survey voyages around Australia, i don't know why he the boats that he had, perhaps it what was on the Mermaid when it was bought. Thanks Chris mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted June 28, 2020 Thanks Rick he had the 3 full boats and frames for another whaleboat stored below. It is in his letter book relating to the voyages. mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 28, 2020 Share #10 Posted June 28, 2020 Relative size: Cabbie and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 28, 2020 Share #11 Posted June 28, 2020 Ok, this should nail it down for you: From http://digital.sl.nsw.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=FL1032664&embedded=true&toolbar=false Cabbie, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick01 Posted June 28, 2020 Share #12 Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Cabbie said: just have to work out how to hold them to the deck. The jolly boat will be shortened from what i have now back to 12 ft. Inspired guess here. Block/wedge under the keel, then ropes from the eyebolts in the gunwales that would secure the cannon/carronades, over the hull and across to eyebolts along or near to the centreline. These latter should be there anyway to pull the cannon inboard. Rick Cabbie and mtaylor 2 Quote Completed builds:- HM Cutter Mermaid. HMS Endeavour's Longboat Topsail Schooner Enterprize Arab Dhow Sultan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted June 28, 2020 Hi Paul That certainly sorts a lot of of it. are they calling the boats cutters on this page? mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 28, 2020 Share #14 Posted June 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, Cabbie said: Paul I assume you mean me, I've been called a lot of names before but that's a first 48 minutes ago, Cabbie said: are they calling the boats cutters on this page? Not they, that was written by the man himself. It seems that boat naming conventions can be a bit loose. He gives 1st cutter, 2nd cutter, Jolly (or is it Joley) and cutter in frames. So you have to build four then take one apart. mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted June 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: I assume you mean me, I've been called a lot of names before but that's a first Not they, that was written by the man himself. It seems that boat naming conventions can be a bit loose. He gives 1st cutter, 2nd cutter, Jolly (or is it Joley) and cutter in frames. So you have to build four then take one apart. Sorry about that sir, from now on you can call yourself Craig, The cutters are meant to be whaleboats as per this which is taken from "Mitchell Library, State Library of New South Wales Phillip Parker King letter book relating to survey voyages around New South Wales, 1817-1823 MLMSS 4429" "In addition to these Boongaree a native having volunteered to go with me I have with the Governors permission accepted his services, he formerly was with Captn Flinders I have 2 Whale Boats, a Jolly Boat and [Page 15] and a Whale Boat in frame, in case any accident should happen to the Vessel" Sorry for one more question i just don't know enough, but one must strike whilst the iron is hot. Do those measurements look to be for one type of boat or the other? Thanks Chris mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted June 28, 2020 Share #16 Posted June 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Cabbie said: The cutters are meant to be whaleboats as per this which is taken from Yeah, just skimmed 'Narrative of a Survey Volume 1'. He mostly just refers to 'the boat', sometimes 'the whale boat' or 'the jolly-boat' and once 'the small whale boat' (which implies two sizes). When he refers to 'the cutter' he is talking about the Mermaid. One of the boats was lost while being towed and a new one built from the spare frames. 27 minutes ago, Cabbie said: Do those measurements look to be for one type of boat or the other? I doubt it, on length alone the three big boats could be Launches, Cutters, Yawls, Gigs, Life boats or Wherries but a breadth of around 5 feet would rule out all of those except Wherries. And King's sketches seem to be double ended. Given King's remarks, go with Whale boats. 52 minutes ago, Cabbie said: i just don't know enough Who does? mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted June 28, 2020 Thanks Craig for all of your help I was thinking the same myself about the breadth of the boats and thinking that meant whale boats. Cheers Chris iMustBeCrazy and mtaylor 2 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #18 Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 11:11 AM, Jim Lad said: It will be good to see a model of her carrying her boats - I don't think I've ever seen a cutter model with boats on deck. John Thanks John looks like its a 2 part challenge now, making them and then attaching to the deck. BTW i am enjoying looking at these images on the new 4k computer screen, rally brings out the detail. And did you see this topic, should be easy for a man of your talents. Hooroo Chris mtaylor 1 Quote HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 HMB Endeavour 1768 by Cabbie - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - Kit Fiddle Every action has a consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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