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Sovereign of the Seas 1637 by md1400cs- Sergal -1:78 (to be hopefully bashed)


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Posted (edited)

Hi Mates,

Happy New Year - hopefully better than 020

 

“Busy work” update – as well as needing to fix an obvious mistake.

 

First inside facings of main deck along with gun port openings and working on pin rails – this area is more complicated – not sure how many (if any) rails to add, or how many holes for the pins – I’m tempted to add sails – as you know this will require many more belaying pin locations than are shown in the Sergal rigging sheets.

 

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I also acquired the Amati rigging sheets (that kit included instructions for sails) and looking at my McKay book Each are different – so “all over the map” -- sorta speak. Both Amati and McKay indicate kevels for mid deck – no pin rails. Also Amati and McKay show pin locations mostly in railings running across the decks Forecastle and so on…. so just not sure how to proceed before installing these two mid-deck bits. (McKay's rigging details are also for added running rigging with sails)

 

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So who knows? - certainly McKAy is arguably the most correct

 

In the meantime -- entry platforms were too large – needed to be fixed,

 

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Will clean and prob. attach some of these bright bits as well as installing carriage retaining rings to the inner deck timbers before securing to the deck.

 

 

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I need to think of when to start and complete hull second pearwood planking  hmmm?

 

As always thanks so much for dropping by and taking a look much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Edited by md1400cs
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Posted (edited)

Frank - thanks for dropping by,

yes whatever rigging sheets I use this project's line locations will end up being mostly educated guess work - may also re-visit the Sergal complete rigging sheets (also include sail rope pin locations that I used for the Vasa.

On the plus side this is a long way off at this point still at the beginnings of this project. Plan on first adding as many details as possible to decks and much extra work at the stern. fun ahead....

To add to the guesswork I also found this 🤔 Now four diff. choices. 😂

 

 

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Edited by md1400cs
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I am skeptical of McKay's work because of many inaccuracies pointed out by others more knowledgeable than myself, yet admit that model companies often get rigging incorrect as well.  R.C. Anderson seems a better source to rely on for accuracy, all the while remembering that the belaying points are largely still a mystery for vessels this old.  Some guesses are based on general sources on rigging knowledge from the time in question, but sources specific to a particular vessel are pretty much nonexistent for the 17th century.  I have had to mix rigging plans from multiple sources in a foreign language I do not understand before, and it's a real difficult thing to do.  But, the results were worth it.

 

When you are done, you will have researched and chosen route and belaying point for each and every line, added many lines that the kit does not describe, and have a thorough knowledge of the function and placement of lines for ships of this time period that you can use on future models.  

 

I went through this process building La Couronne and am now bashing DeAgostini's HMS Sovereign of the Seas, so build logs like this help me greatly.

Edited by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
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Darivs,

 Yes, conundrums indeed. And the two images below also add to the rigging “confusion”. So some (most) rigging will result in "appropriate" location estimates at best. Though it is apparent from these two excellent Czech site images that pin rails/ attached lines were not located at main deck. I will attach kevels -- McKay, and Amati follow in this as well. Though I may add a pin rail on those two sides as well TBD.

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I might also go back to one of my earlier builds –same vintage but Dutch – no rails mid deck either – I had used the Billings complete rigging sheets that were included in their Vasa kit. That kit includes excellent running rigging details – could be very useful as well? The Corel instruction were very basic and not much use IMO..

 

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Current small bits that are in progress for this project;

 

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To add to the “confusion” won’t follow most of Sergal’s instructions regarding the deck entries or their architecture regarding the poop, Quarter or Forecastle decks lower entries or facings– will do lots of scratch work here (actually will try to emulate ideas from excellent museum examples in my files……..

 

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And, of course the many 100s of gilded bits will also not be anything close to the 1637 stern in Pett’s painting.

 

Regarding the 100’s of gilded bits I intend to blend what Sergal has included from the solid bronze pieces of their kit from decades ago, along with a recently purchased complete set from Amati’s now discontinued SotS gilded parts (still available today)  

 

AND It will be quite a while before work on masts and yards.  Thanks for dropping by and posting.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Mates,

 

As always thanks so much for dropping by, and the likes. AND thanks to members who are interested in following this project – so kind!

 

Some minor busy work details; waiting for an order from Cornwall to finish up and finally install the main deck and attach side panels.

 

In the meantime doing other bits that need to be done as well. see image notations....

 

Next on the list is cutting and framing the deck grids.  Also doubled ordered some ladders – intend to attach two ladder frames together then trim and cut to allow for curved looking stair banisters – TBD need to figure out how to do that so that it looks “ok”,

Then will finally second-plank hull - Not sure how to do that - so hesitating - Should planks be caulked? Should scarf joints also be included. Treenails will be a concern as well. Hmmmm??  

 

Regards,

 

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Good day,

Nice work!

Talking of  pinrails, consider they were not in use in that time( but belaying pins were), even on 17-18 century models we could hard to find them... maybe to add just horisontal bar ?

just for information,there are some foto of the tie halliard block shape - replicas of Batavia,Mayflower,Duyfken

Interesting that Batavia replica used upper sheeve in this blok,but other replicas - not

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Edited by kirill4
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Kirill4,

 

Thanks for your images and your comments much appreciated -

 

I think that I will, at the base of the three masts, just install knighheads with sheaves within their bases - along with horizontal bars for the main and formast.

Pins will be located at the several bulkhead railings and along the sides within upper railings. Think that I will also skip complete sails on this project - maybe just adding two furled examples to lower main and foremast. all upper yards will just be lowered without sails as in the image below. The main halyard block was a guess - some museum builders included them others did not - will add one to foremast as well Hmmm?

 

Again thanks for your notes and images.

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Good day,

Understood about location of belaying pins... most probably railings are the best places for them in this case...:)

Regarding fitting or not tie halliard block I don' know exactly about SOS case?

The only thing ,if You decided to fitt them or don't fitt and use jeers ,anyway than all masts should be fitted in the same way .

I know there was difference in english and continental ( Europe)way of  arrangements of lower/ main sails...

First,english tradition, mainly used jeers ,not tie halliards....but this is depend on period of couse,in the begining England  use tie halliard as well...

there is scans from R.C.Anderson's book

on this engravings surely we could see tie halliards blocks of fore and main sails

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Edited by kirill4
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Kirill4: Thanks so much for your images, very informative and helpful – very kind. I do have the Anderson book, indeed excellent. Yes all mast yard hails will use the same methods. Thanks again for your excellent comments.

 

Minor update – still waiting for bits from Cornwall – not their fault; international flights, USPS mail,  both almost out of business…..🙁

 

So in the meantime worked on the capstan, bilge pumps, and main deck gratings; the Sergal provided pumps and capstan were actually quite good.

Added some details but all in all fairly satisfied with these bits. The gratings Sergal provided (laser etched) I did not plan on using, much the same with all the decks. But for these bits the Sergal instructions were very useful. Here are some images. 

 

Regards,

 

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Frank: As always thanks appreciate your thoughts - 

 

Patrick: Noted thanks for the post - Hmm I might figure a way of filling the grooves then adding a stain - thanks for the information. Sergal was getting too creative - again haha - No drains? seems odd -where would the bilged pumped water go? - I was going to follow McKay's image but seemed a bit too much work...actually I was tempted to at least add the drains and caps from his images.🤔 but, this project will look "so busy" that these two pumps will be minor details - still always thanks for your information and advice.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi ,

I just started the second planking (pear wood 5 X 1/2mm). Not sure about how I am doing this – also not sure if I’m doing it according to English planking 16th century.

That said, I have seen some amazing builds that have diff. shades of planking throughout the hull – looks amazingtrying to emulate that look – not sure if I’m up to it. May just remove what’s been started and just Watco all planks - instead of just some here and there. – Need to “sleep on this” for a couple of days. Anyway sharing some frustrations. Darker planks seem to stand out a bit too much? - Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS: I think that builders that included different shades among hull planks was because they used different woods?. I’m trying to do this just using all the same pear wood wood – just adding a stain to some planks; all confusing so far; probably not the way to do this.

 

I am aware that the water line and below hull was probably painted white – decided not to do that, which, of course, would solve the problem. Just sharing some frustrations for this part of the build - so far - but glad to be finally starting the hull work.

 

Thanks so much for your visits and interest in this build log – so appreciated. 

 

Regards,

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Hi all,

 

Here are some updated images for the hull second planking.

and I was getting very lazy about putting on/off small dust mask as I sanded and adjusted each plank before installing – so thought about a solution

(Amazon) – works very well – see last image

Thanks for looking in -- as always much appreciated! 

 

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Edited by md1400cs
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Posted (edited)

Hi,

 

Want to share - I've learned so much from other members techniques - this is a silly simple idea, but I have found it to be super helpful for many different needs. In this case for the planking - 

 

I occasionally had minor differences in plank widths -and did not pay attention when gluing them into place. It, of course resulted in a larger problem when adding next plank. 

 

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Have been using this for a long time. I use adhesive backed sanding discs, attach bits to various sizes of wood to create very useful sanding tools of any needed size - In this case 220 grit --- but you get the idea.

 

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regards,

 

 

Edited by md1400cs
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Hi,

 

Minor update - having more or less completed the hull planking now focused on planking the other three needed upper decks pear wood (3 x 0.5mm)... Work in progress.....next will add "treenails" as was done for forecastle deck. along with other needed work. The kit provided pre-scored decks were a great aid for aligning the covering planks.

 

Thanks so much for your interest in following, likes, comments and/or just dropping by...

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Mates,

 

A work in progress update that has caused some unforeseen issues (my fault);

 

1) Canons under the forecastle deck, and forward bulkhead – per the kit are eight dummies.  Stubs to be inserted in kit provided balsa blocks.

 

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2) Forecastle deck has large open area for stairs leading down to forward portion of main deck.

So I planked that part of the main deck as well (was an afterthought) then wanted to add carriages and canons, instead of the eight dummies. – work is very average given  the very minor view that it will provide – it will do

 

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3) Needed to choose canons and carriages; will all be from current kit

 

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4) Will use the McKay drawing and flatten the forecastle inside bulkhead and add two doors (to be open) hence added visual to those eight carriages.

 

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So far so good. THEN realized that the forward inner carriages sit in where I need to add the two knightheads that run through forecastle deck  - Yikes!!

 

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Now need to re-think this entire section of work. Might just add a grating, use dummies for the four forward canons – need to think it out Hmmm?? TBD.

 

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As always thanks so much for your interest….

 

 

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When the cannons get in the way of the cat heads then they use dummy guns at Sergal (the easiest way 😉).

I am convinced that you will find a solution to this problem.

 

On some models of the SoS there are no cat heads (on the drawing of McKay also not).

But, this will probably cause problems later during rigging.

 

 

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Patrick,

 

Yes the cathead question is something that I thought of. Sergal shows a pinrail - Amati as McKay do not. All of the tie points are at the forward bulkhead upper railing in front of the foremast (hmmm?).

I have not decided if I want to add sails, as I did with the Vasa - the extra work, and many needed extra pin locations is - well something to think about. McKay's rigging plates are really superb, that also include full sails.

 

So regarding current situation - yes I have found a solution 😉 -bit of a less than good one - but it will be fine ...images speak for themselves

 

Cheers,

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One last thought given the price point of this Sergal SotS - and that it has been available for decades - certainly R&D costs have been long ago paid for, even with their "improved" product (yes some parts are much better) One would think that the bright parts (for this ship THE buying incentive) would be at least as excellent as the vintage kit's solid bronze bits....the are poorer by comparison IMO.... hmmm??

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I cannot be certain that S.o.t.S. was this way, but my understanding is that the forward chase cannons and the two foremost broadside cannons were the same gun just shifted to different ports as needed. The reason is that with the foremost broadside guns in place, there is no room for the chase cannons to recoil or be returned inboard to reload. Looking at the picture of all of your chase guns in place, the outer two chase guns would recoil into the leading broadsides.

 

Depending upon how you want to display her, you could leave them all in place as it is much more dramatic, (I have done this on mine) despite functional accuracy. My other suggestion would be to leave the two foremost broadsides out and have all four chase guns in place. This arrangement while more accurate also adds two view ports to see some of the details under the forecastle.

 

I am honestly uncertain as to how the cathead arrangement works on this vessel. Very curious though.

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Hi Michael

 

After silently admiring your build for a while I have to say how much I like it. Not only your unique realistic style shows but the added details depict again a masterpiece in the making.

The arrangement of the (too many?) guns below the fore castle left some doubts but I think EJ_L not only shares them but also shows a good solution. Not every gun port was always filled with a gun and leaving one pair off seems good to me.

In post #86 I see some scuppers. Did you drill them through to the outside?

Great work!

 

Cheers

Peter

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