Cutty Sark by Nenad

[cog]

Well, Nenad, I feel for you. I don't know if it helps, but you are in my thoughts. I wish you strength, wisdom, and perseverance for the last stretch of this office makeover ... Now I know why my brother didn't want me to join his company

[NenadM]

At 11 AM, I declared home revolution, with lion's roar get Him from bed (not gently), considering my patience dissapear, and Hothead capitulated, without big fight (?!?), admiting His mistakes (???). I immidietly took steering wheel, at same moment turned myself to slave-master, forced him strong to help me, and at 24h, after 12 continious working hours, only couple of jobs left ( mounting of one shelf and two lights, mounting my PC, filling furniture with books and my office stuff, and of course, cleaning). Finaly, I see the end

 

Parent diplomacy ... I let him to show what he know, still thonk I have to, and let him to express himself, but when it last longer than it had to be, father sometimes just has to show his authority and to put things in order

 

But ... his design of office is ... I dare to say ... Brilliant

 

I hope we both learned something from this torture

 

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

Nenad,

 

I like the "Lion King" behavior ... that was about time to me.

 

I'd expected you to be looking into your office, instead of at the wall. Furthermore, could you turn those brackets (180 degrees) from your "cabinets" so they are inside them, instead of showing on top? These remarks are based on my observations, and personal preferences

 

Cheers

[NenadM]

Hey Carl! Thanks for your input.

Theoretically, your approach is correct, and that was my starting idea. But, there were, as always, some limittations.

After two years of crisis in legal system I wrote earlier, when courts didn't work and when Attorney bar was in strike, all my financial back-ups disappeared, and we get in pretty bad financicl situation ( tax debt grows ...) so we were forced to leave rented office in downtown we took more than 10 years, and to install office at home. At the same time, Hothead went for study in another town, which costs about 500€ every month. Add to that cca 500€ month for my taxes, and add fact that in Serbia is now very hard and rare to earn, even as attorney more than 2000€ per month (if you are not connected with politic or crime), add also death of my Admiral (attorney too), that was another life and financial hit.

Damage is relatively amortized considering my main clients are companies, so if needed, I go to them to meet who I need, and having 7 years to retirement, I have no idea to make big office any more.

And I am here where I am, living and working in house. My house has 130m2 flat + garage, heat room, attic and basement (which can not be turned to office), so - flat. Kitchen is out of question, living room (5,5*4,5 m) also, and there are four more rooms 3*3,5 as options. Two in attic are kid's caves, one is my bed room , so one 3x3,5 left. Small office just for me.

And now, main point. My old dream is to have working room with library of my ... ok, more than 1000 books I collected during life. For that small office, put there my desk (I like it to be large) and equipment, books on walls, just no room for conference desk, only two seats with small table for clients ... and my dreams have to be cutted, because I realised (with hothead's help) that I do not want claustophobic work space. Some books have to be placed in living room, some space has to be left in office on that way that visitors feel well inside, all look of office has to be fluent and transparent, so that was only solution for work desk.

And the last one look !!!! . No further reconstructions !!!!

You just can not put 1 lit of wather in 2dl glass

Edited August 15, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

I understand, Nenad, I started  as a freelancer August 2001 ...

 

It must have been very hard to make ends meet during that time. I don't know what the currency change to Euro did for your country, but here the banks stole 10% for each exchanged guilder.

 

We have our books all over the house, but for the bedroom, although there are some stacks there too. For the office, you have to make do with what you have. I've been lucky probably, for I've always had my desk either facing a window, or my back at/to the wall, however small the room was.

 

BUT, this your office, and you've got it finished!!! Congratulations on this father, and son office makeover. You both have learned from the experience. Now we can learn from your experience with the Cutty Sark As you, we are looking forward to some more magnificent shipmodelling!!!

Edited August 13, 2016 by cog

[mtaylor]

NIce work on the office.  Taking charge was a good thing, in my mind.   I sympathize with your situation...  been there a few times myself... over-worked, under-paid, looking for the next client before being finished with the first.  A never ending battle.

[NenadM]

Thanks Carl and Mark

Wider screen of situation in Serbia today need to be watched from historical angle for better understanding. More than 300 years under Otoman empire, almost to the end of XIX century, with feudal system and low agriculture economy until middle of XIX century (no industry, no democratic institutions, no own educated man ( first "college" opened at 1838 only 1200 students until 1850 !!!), which means - only 50-60 years of low industrialization process which was cuted during and after First world war, then only 20 years with raising from ash, , then WWII followed with 40 years of Comunizm ( topsy-turvy economy with enormous foreign debt), and then - final blow  - almost 10 years (1991-1999) of Civil war, hyper inflation never seen before, international sanctions and NATO bombing. All this leave huge political, economical and social impact and consequences, producing very poor country with mainly very poor people comparing with EU and USA, with average salary over net 300€ per month (my daughter as doctor of medicine has only close about net 450€ per month ?!?!?!?). This means that if you as attorney can earn 1000-2000€ (gross) per month, you are well-off. But most of clients are very poor and put their legal issues under carpet until better times, most of companies are on the edge of insolvency drowned with expensive credits, also put legal issues under carpet, and in this surrounding it is very very hard to be attorney here. Middle class do not exist any more. This I can describe and explain in a fat book. If somebody is interested more than Wiki can explain, there will be PM for this purpose

But, I think I already cross over borders of main theme of this topic, so my next input will be about Her Majesty
I hope soon

Edited August 15, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Back to work ... FINALY !!! ... color correction and cleaning continued

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Nenad

[rwiederrich]

Sweet!  Looks like the real mcKoy....

 

Rob

[popeye the sailor]

nice job with the touch ups and home reno..........good to see a satisfactory resolve on both fronts   

[NenadM]

Thanks Rob, Denis and another who click like button

 

I stole two days from myself and went to mini-vacation in Arandjelovac, small city 80 km from Belgrade, seeing interesting things:

 

One of the most beautiful city park in Europe, full of high trees, flowers and sculptures

 

 

Risovacha Cave, with founded remains of Cave Lion, Cave bear and Neanderthal man, also museum with remains

 

 

 

Memorial center of the Serbian Royal family Karadjordjevic, situated in crypt under the Church of St.georgy, with 39 tomb places. Interesting is that inner decoration of church is made in mosaic technic, consists of 725 painted compositions (513 in the temple and 212 in the crypt), where the figure is 1,500. The total area of the mosaic is 3,500 square meters with 40 million multicolored glass cubes, which have 15,000 different shades of color

 

 

 

 

 

Museum of royal family issues, where I found excellent piece of woodcut

 

 

and so much more. 

 

Came home today, planning to keep on cleaning Her Majesty tonight

[cog]

It's amazing what they could accomplish with the limited tools, and other resources they had in that time. Wonderful, certainly worth while visiting, Nenad

[NenadM]

Cleaning and color correction - done.

 

Making anything/something is, finaly, next on line. I think stairs to fore and after deck are next

 

 

 

@Carl

 

That craftman art was made from olive tree, by Greek monk Grigorie, making it 60 years, XIX/XX century ... Almost sure without, or almost without tools. During my visit I can not find custos to ask him more about (?)

Edited August 19, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Little thinking about next steps, and I concluded that at first I have to position mast holes, and to determine their diameters

 

And then i run into problem ( not a long time ...)

At first, to mention that I do not know exactly scale of my model: Three years ago, I started with TEHNODIDAKTA kit-plans (no scale noted anywhere !!!), and when i found *.pdf Campbell`s plans, (I was already making hull and run deep ino planking), and I re-sized them digitally as much precise I was able to do, to the size of TEHNODIDAKTA. From that time I use that resized C-plans as reference for measuring of details, and everything seems to be just in scale

 

Re sizing C-plans from their scale (3/32"=1 Foot , I suppose it refers to 1:78 Scale) to appr. 1:100 Scale, results with enlarging the depth of drawing lines about 30%

 

Here is how it looks in practice:

 

On next picture you can see that depending of starting and ending point of measure, difference vary from 1-1,2 mm !!!! And this is a lot !

 

 

Also you can notice that outer dia of masts are:  fore 7,7 mm main 7,5 mm and mizzen 6,5 mm, which means +/- 7mm and I can live with this.

 

But, there is always devil here around ...

 

Referring to second sheet of C-plans ( lower part of picture) if I read it well  , there are dimensions:

 

22" fore and main

21" mizzen

 

converting to cm that means:

 

55,88 cm fore and main

53,34 cm mizzen

 

which means in scale 1:100:

 

5,6 mm fore and main

5,3 mm mizzen

 

AND THIS DEVIATE FROM DRAWINGS FOR 2 MM !!!!

 

What it means ? One solution -  drawings are not precise

 

On the other side, to me seems that masts will be very very very fragile if I started their dia with 5 mm narrowing to the top!!! To me also it seems that starting dia cca 7mm for all masts will not be over-sized on my model

 

I know, I am captain of my ship and my building ...

 

Any thoughts and ideas?

 

Or more precise references?

Edited August 21, 2016 by Nenad

[jud]

Probably, from plans or record measurement of the masts and yards on the Cutty Sark, I would determine the actual size of all. Once I had that I would pick one scale and build all to it, using the actual dimensions for the base. Mast spacing, proportion it, as long as your installed rigging points will work. Doesn't really matter what I might do, you have proven yourself skilled at resolving such problems. Good luck, looking forward to seeing your solution.

jud

[cog]

Nenad,

 

What drawings are precise ...

 

Try to get the measurements/sizes from an other builder's drawings ... or maybe Yahoo search/Google ... I, unfortunately, am sorry but I cannot shed any light on this deviation in sizes

[NenadM]

Thank you for inputs gentleman.

It seems that I have to run some detective work, starting with photos I collected

On next picture, comparing with average width of human shoulders, it seems that dia of mast is much more than 50-70 cm, even with perspective deviation having in mind that man is standing over 1m in front of mast, and a bit aside

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Next try, different approach, playing with elementary mathematics, perspective and percentage

 

My English is not good enough to explain, so be kind see the photo below

 

 

Tonight I am going to make some visual tests with masts of 5, 7 and 9 mm dia from paper

 

Photos follow

[NenadM]

Testing masts depth with three test pieces, width 5mm 7mm and 8,5mm. Just visual tests

 

Here are reference photos of Her Majesty

 

 

 

 

 

And here are testing pieces at the main mast position

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at photos, to me it seems that mast base is looking, on some way, heavy and masive, presenting strenght.

 

Conclusion:

 

5mm is too thin

 

7mm is OK

 

8-8,5 mm is a bit overscale, but it seems that with this dia of 8-8,5mm in base, narrowing to the top, I can get that masive and strenght look

 

What do you think?

[cog]

square masts give a wrong impression ..., that's what I see ...

[NenadM]

I know that Carl. That was just a visual test, and I am not quite sure that camera get right impresion I was looking for and what I catched with my eyes

[jud]

I think that you are doing well in determining a comparable proportionate match between your model and the ship itself for the mast diameter, think I would use a stem to stem comparison to determine a scale to use for all mast component sizing for your model. Applying that new scale to all of the top-hamper would result in a pleasing appearance of your model that would be in proportion to your model as built. You could compare 7.75 MM which has the appearance of being the ideal diameter using your photo comparisons that you just posted as the ideal deck level mast diameter against the actual mast diameter for a check of the scale determined by using the overall hull lengths, if it is a reasonable match, you are set. Use that scale and real shipboard dimensions to build your masts and spars. If you have confidence and made your checks and comparisons in computing that scale, use it and stick with it all the way through, easy to second guess yourself and run in circles until the cows come home. The letters KISS come to mind.

Good luck, Probably as may ways to do this, as I have words in this post, won't bother me a bit if you reject all or part of my input.

jud

Edited August 22, 2016 by jud

[cog]

Nenad,

 

I know it was "just" a visual test, and there is the distortion from the lens too. However, a round form looks differently compared to a square form. It often looks slimmer than the square, oddly enough. You should try it, put along side eachother a cylinder and a rectangular block, the cylinder having the same radius as a rectangular block's width. When you turn the block ever so slightly it already looks different.

[NenadM]

Game of shades ... also game of colours

I'll try tomorrow new test with white card masts

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

Go for it Nenad. I'll be watching out for your experiment's result.

 

P.s. if those masts are painted white, it will make a difference in looks too

[NenadM]

Stil a kid inside me -  don`t tell my clients ...  

 

Entering office, instead to start working on complex interest calculation and financial expert findings, I made testing pieces from card ( Microsoft is quilty - MSWord possibility to draw rectangles in precise dimensions, rest is familiar O = dia x Pi ...)

 

[cog]

Microsoft never was able to draw a straight line You should use a calculator to get the circumference, not a word processor, Nenad What kind of LEDs did you put into those tubes?

[NenadM]

Microsoft never was able to draw a straight line You should use a calculator to get the circumference, not a word processor, Nenad What kind of LEDs did you put into those tubes?

 

I agree about MS, but I was lazy and impatient to wait for Adobe Illustrator to open, having in mind that those are just test pieces, and there is max 1% of deviation (MS +  not so much precise gluing with self-adhesive tape) is seems not so significant. sure I calculated width of rectangle ( dia x 3,14...). 

 

Wooden pieces will be fitted to 100% of chosen scale when them comes to line

 

It is not LED light ... he he ... it is only flash from my phone  and bad photo I made. I forgot to mention - test pieces are made from regular copy-printer 80g paper I use in office

 

At evening I`ll make some shots of those test masts on Her Majesty. All this is for purpose - locate and drill holes for masts - to determine diameter of holes

 

...

 

 

Evening ...  Ok, not still .. let`s say evening comes ,,

 

5mm

 

 

 

7mm

 

 

 

8mm

 

 

 

9mm

 

 

 

I think 5mm and 9 mm lost race

 

Then 7 mm or 8 mm

 

for now, I have answer to my question - diameter of hole to be drilled in deck - let it be 7mm

 

 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Going forward

 

While I was detrmining the right places for mast's holes, I faced with wrong bulwark lines, and it was quite horror to place them on longitudinal axe of deck.

 

But, holes are finaly drilled to 7mm dia

 

 

Measuring, I faced with my another mistake I didn't think about earlier. Devil always comes when you do not expect him

 

Wall under aft deck and stairs

 

Let's see where it has to be

 

 

You can notice that wall is almost under moulding

 

In my case, deep inside...

 

 

So, I had to make and add some kind of "false wall" Reparation starts ...

 

 

 

This is neccessary step before making aft-deck stairs and boxes near them

 

Big mistake, but adding new wall was pretty easy. Some putty, painting and sanding left, and it will be ok

Edited August 23, 2016 by Nenad

[Piet]

Looks like you settled on the 7 mm mast Nenad.  My personal guess was something between 7 and 8 but who is quibbling about a fraction of a mm.  It'll look just right after all the other things are attached to it and the rigging is on.

Great catch and fix on the mizzen hole. 

 

Cheers,