Cutty Sark by Nenad

[jud]

Seats of ease in the days of sail were located at the bows,'head of the ship'.  The seats of ease became known as the Heads. Regardless of location, the afloat facilities for some time are known as Heads. Going to the Head means you are going to relieve yourself and you are going to the Head to do it. Your little cabins are Heads, may be others in Officers Country, they too would be heads.

jud

Edited September 15, 2016 by jud

[cog]

Looks good, even a fat man can sit in your fabulous constructed heads. You shouldn't make it to comfi, or your crew won't get out It is also known as WC, toilet, sesspit, or whatever other name is called the space where you dump the content of your bowles, or bladder ...

[mtaylor]

Whatever you name them, Nenad, they look great.  You are putting a lot of detailwork into them.

[NenadM]

Seats of ease in the days of sail were located at the bows,'head of the ship'.  The seats of ease became known as the Heads. Regardless of location, the afloat facilities for some time are known as Heads. Going to the Head means you are going to relieve yourself and you are going to the Head to do it. Your little cabins are Heads, may be others in Officers Country, they too would be heads.

jud

 

Thanks, Jud. From time to time I have a war with my English, so  ... And it is written on proper place to whom who are literate ( I am obviously - not)

 

 

 

 

Looks good, even a fat man can sit in your fabulous constructed heads. You shouldn't make it to comfi, or your crew won't get out It is also known as WC, toilet, sesspit, or whatever other name is called the space where you dump the content of your bowles, or bladder ...

 

He, he ... fortunately in time when She was sailing, there were not cell phones, tablets, and another appropriate equipment and toys for this type of game room. And ... shared closets were never a fun places, no matter how they were made, no mather how they are cleaned. I think we, almost all were in army ? Or in a camp, concert,  etc etc

 

 

Whatever you name them, Nenad, they look great.  You are putting a lot of detailwork into them.

 

There are many names Mark ... in my family domestic words are: The Throne, The Temple of Relief, One Place, Resting Room, YOU ARE HERE AGAIN !!! or variant WILL YOU GET OUT TODAY !!! ... and some just untranslatable words which every language has for it. when I finis second ( I hope today) , real fun begins with pump and bars  

Edited September 16, 2016 by Nenad

[popeye the sailor]

it was a running joke between me and my brother-in-law..........mother hated to hear the bathroom referred to as the 'head'.   of course,  the both of us would jump on that,  like a dog to a bone!    

[NenadM]

Second "Head" done

 

 

 

Pretty crowded it become

 

As you can see if careful watch photos, right cabin is bit taller than left cabin, because right inner bulwark is a bit higher than a left inner bulwark. But, it is not visible on a first look, and that was my idea how to mask grand building mistake I made in first days of my build. Particular when ladders, entrance, hatch and deck winch will be added in front of cabins, and chains will be lined up to chain pipes

 

 

I can (have to) live with that

Edited September 19, 2016 by Nenad

[Omega1234]

Hi Nenad

 

Looking wonderful. Crowded, but nice!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[cog]

you could take off the giant covered  bathtub at the back of the central cabin ... (2nd image, near the top) that would give some considerable space, ... besides a bucket full of water or under the pump would do it for a sailor ... at least, that's what the books tell us ...

Edited September 17, 2016 by cog

[NenadM]

Hi Nenad

 

Looking wonderful. Crowded, but nice!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

 

Hey Patrick ! My "detail overload" and "make a crowd" strategy of building seems to bears some fruit! Not even close to perfect model, but all slowly get on it`s place and nice look of decks appears. With my experience and skill, I am almost 100% satisfied with last year results. For now, I am very pleased how things go. Except all I make I have to make 2-3 times

 

What do you think, having in mind your skill and experience with your miniature, and fragile work: when is right time to make and mount my, to devil small fences on rails? Just before rigging ? After rigging ? Now ? I am clumsy and impatient from time to time, and it is really hard decision

 

 

 

you could take off the giant covered  bathtub at the back of the central cabin ... (2nd image, near the top) that would give some considerable space, ... besides a bucket full of water or under the pump would do it for a sailor ... at least, that's what the books tell us ...

 

Nice idea Carl. I think that, if I do that,  I risk to be keel-hauled by captain, considering lack of fresh water for shower purpose. Also do not believe that sailors like salt water shower far out at sea , so it can be another reason to bath me under ship

 

[Omega1234]

Hey Patrick ! My "detail overload" and "make a crowd" strategy of building seems to bears some fruit! Not even close to perfect model, but all slowly get on it`s place and nice look of decks appears. With my experience and skill, I am almost 100% satisfied with last year results. For now, I am very pleased how things go. Except all I make I have to make 2-3 times

 

What do you think, having in mind your skill and experience with your miniature, and fragile work: when is right time to make and mount my, to devil small fences on rails? Just before rigging ? After rigging ? Now ? I am clumsy and impatient from time to time, and it is really hard decision

 

fragile.JPG

 

 

Hi Nenad

 

Thanks.  Unfortunately, I'm not totally sure what you mean by "devil small fences on rails", , but, irrespective of that, my experience has taught me that whichever way is going to create the least risk of damage to the rigging and other parts, the better.  At the end of the day, you've got to do what feels right for you and, that'll only come with experience.

 

Good luck!  

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick 

 

[NenadM]

Heads are only 20 mm tall, Patrick , and look at this thiny net toward them!!!

 

 

It rounds whole fore deck

[jud]

Doubt that those Lifelines with nets were part of the working ship, Probably only there because of young or clumsy visitors. A single grab line on the inboard side of those forward ladders, 'plenty of handholds or bracing points on the outboard side of them', may have been part of the working ship. Those ladders are steep enough to descend when facing away from them as Seamen do, safely, if a grab point is needed, the rails of the ladders are within reach. Placing those nets on your model would be a challenge, keeping them from being damaged if placed now and restricted working space if later, I think you can leave them off without compromising the accuracy of the working vessel.

jud

[NenadM]

Jud, you are quite right. But ... why I always have some "but" ???

 

There are some unanswered questions I pointed somewhere in a deep of my log considering particular details on deck

 

Let`s say on this way ( all this is about question - what details to include, and how to make it on this scale)

 

1.

Pair of ladders which lead to fore deck

 

There are not on C-plans

 

 

C-plans show rounded pin-rails

 

If I remember well, Bob (Rfolsom) Mark and couple of folks here were discussing about question - if there ladders when She was working ship, or ladders are pointed there when She was turned to museum. And, if there were pin-rails - which of lines ended there. We have not rich any answer.

 

Probably I`ll put ladders there without rope net, because I do not know what that pin rails are for 

 

2.

 

Fore deck fence

 

I agree with you that "lifelines" - protective net has purpose to avoid touching and falling down. On pictures, even on old one, you can see metal fence around deck

 

 

 

same on C-plans

 

 

But ( again) there is question about those fence ( red arrows on photo) - has it to be here ?

 

 

3.

 

Aft-deck is ... hmmm ... many questions

 

On C-plans, same as I have seen on different kit models, there is a fence on edge of roof on aft cabin

 

 

Now, it disappear !

 

 

I assume that this fence has purpose during sailing, and now, when climbing on roof is forbidden, it has no point, and it is cute from CS in some stage of her ground life

 

Fence which rounds after deck is present as on C-plans as now

 

 

 

4.

 

And life-line on ladders which lead to aft-deck. Has it`s point on sailing time, as now. Also presented in very old rare photos of Her

 

 

 

It seems to me next:

 

- rail fences over fore and aft deck  were there, are there and has to be here ( without rope protective net)

- handrail on aftdeck ladders was there and has to be on model

- fences on after deck cabin, considering I will make model with spread sails, will be there

- fences beside front ship bell - it will be nice detail

- ladders to fore deck - will be nice detail instead pin-rails, without life-line or protective net

- all fences will have 2 horizontal lines with pillars and divided fields, without rope net

 

And now, to return to my question to Patrick

 

In my scale, height of fences has to be only 8 mm, so they just have to be fragile because 0,5 mm wire looks on that scale as wholesale tree !!!!

 

Devil`s work it will be

 

And question was - WHEN - in which stage of building to mount them ( if I succeed to make them anyhow)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Nenad

[jud]

Thanks Nenad, can't argue with that. The brass hand rails on the inboard side of the ladders would be my choice of style. Little work outside of the Bulwarks, so lifelines would not hinder the working of the ship.

jud

[NenadM]

Your comments and suggestions are always welcome, Jud. Please keep on posting all your observations, comments, suggestions and thoughts

[keelhauled]

Hi Nenad,

 

As to the rail on the monkey or aft cabin.  Woodget's photo of the Cutty has the rail.  This was taken when she was carrying wool and racing.

 

The forecastle had rails. As to the protective nets on the forecastle rail.  She didn't have them.  The rails are removable for fishing and stowing the anchor.  This was standard in the clippers and windjammers.There is a photo on page 93 in the standing rigging of topmast in Longridge's book (the rigging - part 2)  that shows the removable section of the rail gone from the cat head to the back of the anchor board while the Cutty is being towed.  Here is a photo of the bow in sydney that Woodget took.

 

 

to rails at the aft edge of the forecastle. Campbell's plans  and photos of her in Sydney don't show it present.  Also if it had been in place and the ladders removed the sailors would have a hard time getting to to forecastle.  on a tall ship in Sydney as sailor showed me how he got up and down without the ladders and it was by stepping on the windlass. On that ship they were removable, but since they had customers, they kept them in place when sailing.  

 

Also notice that the pipe railing for the forecastle ladders that is on the museum version were not present in Woodget's photo even when the ladders were in place

 

 

AS to the pin rails on the forecastle in Campbell's plans located  where the removable ladders go..  The pins are for the sheets of the  jibs and fore stay sail.  You can see this in Tudgay's painting that was used for the restoration.  If you don't put the pins there and you rig the sails you won't have any place to belay the sheets for the jibs.  It is my understanding that those ladders to the forecastle were just for port.

 

 

Marc

Edited September 18, 2016 by keelhauled

[NenadM]

Thank you very much, Marc

 

What do you think about idea to put pin-rails instead ladders, and to tie ladders along bulwark just beside "Heads" ?

 

And, where this ladders are during saing?

 

Not to forget - I am 99% sure that model with sails must have protective net under bowsprit!!!!

Edited September 18, 2016 by Nenad

[keelhauled]

Hi Nenad,

 

I ended up putting the pin rails in place.  I haven't decided upon where to stow the ladders.  When the were under sail, would they have stowed them under the forecastle deck?  Maybe as you say tie them to the stanchions on the bulwarks.  Thank goodness that Captain Woodget took photos.  I wished that he had taken more or if he did, that they had published them on the internet.  

 

I haven't decided on the net under the bowsprit.  I don't see it in Tudgay's paintings, Woodget's photos, or Campbell's plans.

 

Also what about the anchor cranes?  Campbell's plans mention them, but I can't find a photo of her with them in place.  I made them.  Maybe I'll stow them on the boat skids with the accommodation ladder if I ever build it.

 

Thanks

Marc

[NenadM]

Mr. Sherlock and/or Dr.Watson in action. A few more old b/w photos with protective net on bowsprit. Ferriera state



On next picture you can see specific, not usual way of rigging bowsprit ...



And very very interesting b/w picture!



All three boats from central cabin down, cranes mounted, and ...

Look carefull direction of accomodation ladder.
Final conclusion - one accomodation ladder for both sides.

Also, there is something interesting abowe boat near bow ...

And also, different design of front cabin - lower and wider
My job trained me to watch and find details which are significant interesting and different

Edited September 23, 2016 by Nenad

[jud]

It's a Boat Boom Nenad. That one will have drop lines for two boats and a rope ladder, usually no steadying hand lines on the boom. Gear going in or out of the boat will be hauled using a line from the deck, not the boom. Stern lines leading aft to the ship are used to hold the boat parallel to the ship.

jud

[popeye the sailor]

another interesting point.....where are the third steps to the masts?

[keelhauled]

Hi Nenad,

 

It looks like the net was there later in her life. referring to your post with the photos of the net:  The top photo is from 1954. The middle is 1927 and the bottom is 1945.  From 1922 to 1954 she was a training ship. I don't know if her being used as a training ship had anything to do with the addition of the net or maybe changes in regulations.  I don't think you can go wrong by adding it to her.  After all, it was there at one point.

 

marc

[NenadM]

Marc

Having in mind function of this net, I believe that net was present always when She was on sails, or ready to sail.

We do not want to feed anybody with our sailors, or working ants, aren't we?

Denis

Portuguese re-rigged her, and I had not read anything of Her re-masting until Her return to London. Maybe somebody has additional knowledge about Her history

Thanks Jud. It is obviously that there, as on any other sailing ship, there were many of, let's say "tool parts" with different more or less significant usage. When I was investigating outer contents of bulwarks, I found many different points with evidently purpose to tie something. Also, there is a huge number of rings on stanchions under main rail. I do not believe that anybody would put them there without any purpose. Long time passed, and only lads who sailed Her can know what for, any particular point can be used for at all.

No progress those days, sometimes Nenad was just lazy, sometimes Nenad had to work in office, sometimes wanted to talk with kids. Hothead went to Novi Sad yesterday to have some exams, and a new (his last) school year starts in a few weeks.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

The preparation for a pump

 

 

Hmmm ... ( again)

 

Tiny, tiny, tiny

Fragile, fragile, fragile

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

You could make it from cast iron ...

 

Tiny, tiny, tiny

strong, strong, strong

 

or resin ...

[NenadM]

Or ... wood, Cu wire 0,5 mm, Zn wire 0,3 mm, acrylic paint , mixed with two hours of patience

 

First testing

 

 

Against photo

 

 

It could be a bit smaller toward cabin

 

 

Bur I can live with it. Light underline pump structure

 

 

First "super fragile" part made

 

Strong enough, Carl

[cog]

Looks pretty sturdy, Nenad. Like the artistic curl on the handle.

 

Did you have a try yet !? :D

[Omega1234]

Hi Nenad

 

You know, it's often said that a model ship is built up of many tiny individual models, all of which come together to form the whole model. Your pump and WC cabinet are glorious models in their own right.

 

Marvellous!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

Edited September 25, 2016 by Omega1234

[keelhauled]

Great work Nenad!

[NenadM]

Looks pretty sturdy, Nenad. Like the artistic curl on the handle.

 

Did you have a try yet !? :D

 

I have idea to try it, Carl, but I could not . Buckets I made are glued, and I could not take them. And I do not like water on deck until I finished Her

 

Hi Nenad

 

You know, it's often said that a model ship is built up of many tiny individual models, all of which come together to form the whole model. Your pump and WC cabinet are glorious models in their own right.

 

Marvellous!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

 

There is a great  truth in your words, Patrick. I realized it when I started with details on hull, particularly when I started to fill fore deck 

 

Great work Nenad!

 

Thanks, Marc

 

Idea for tonight is to try to make capstan bars on port side cabin - eight of them on surface only 8-9 mm wide, which means that particular bar has to be not more than 0,5 mm in diameter

 

 

And I have sent my working ants to Patrick, and they do not want to come back - saying, that work conditions are best, food is best, salary is best, model is more interesting, and works go faster

 

 

 

:im Not Worthy:  :im Not Worthy: