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James H

HMS Victory (prototype) by James H - Amati - 1:64

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As my interim article project isn't happening yet, I've spent a day numbering up the parts on all the sheets. It's a BIG job!

 

I've also removed the two-part keel and locking device parts, the bulkheads and the orlop deck sections and dry-fitted them all to get an idea of the size of this thing. I thought you might light to see...

 

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15 minutes ago, reaver1467 said:

I am so glad this is finally happening. Can‘ wait for the next posts.

 

At least I can now stop saying, 'the kit will be with me in a week or so' 😆

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Some people have asked me what the weight of this kit is.

 

Ok, remember that this isn't a final product, and the Lady Nelson was also in the box. But, offset that against the lack of cast cannon and the plans sent separately, plus the shortage of lime plank, then I think we can take a semi-educated guess. 

 

The weight of this box was listed with DHL as 20kg. I think that is roughly the weight....maybe minus 2 or 3 kg for proper boxing etc. 

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25 minutes ago, James H said:

Some people have asked me what the weight of this kit is.

 

Ok, remember that this isn't a final product, and the Lady Nelson was also in the box. But, offset that against the lack of cast cannon and the plans sent separately, plus the shortage of lime plank, then I think we can take a semi-educated guess. 

 

The weight of this box was listed with DHL as 20kg. I think that is roughly the weight....maybe minus 2 or 3 kg for proper boxing etc. 

Going to need a bigger bench!

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Ok, time for some studio photos for the eventual instructions. 

 

I'd already jumped the gun a little when I posted a dry-fit of everything, but these pictures are far clearer. Work started on the LARGE hull cradle as that's the order I'm doing this for Amati. This is constructed of 6mm MDF, as per the bulkheads and keel of Victory. This thing pushes together and is locked together with small keys. I use Titebond for glue. Before work started, I spent a day numbering the parts on the various sheets in the kit. Many parts look the same, but are definitely not. This isn't a kit where you want to get stuff mixed up.

 

By the way, all photos will be properly annotated with parts numbers in the manuals.

 

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The size of the model calls for the keel to be supplied in halves. Instead of just gluing the keel together, everything is also reinforced. A lock and key mechanism is also supplied for this. I glued the keel halves together first and left them to throughly dry. After this, a reinforcement plate was glued to one side and then two lock pieces slotted through this, followed by a reinforcement plate on the other side. Two keys were then slotted through the locks and glued into position.

 

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The original instructions say to drop the bulkheads into position, followed by the orlop, and then apply (paint) glue around the joints. Now, that would normally be my own way of working too, but my glues set very quickly. I didn't want to screw this up, so I've ordered some Titebond Extend to help. This aliphatic resin glue takes up to 24hrs to fully cure and lets the modeller work for quite a while before it starts to set. In the absence of that at the moment, I'll show you the basic assembly.

 

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With the glue (when it gets here) on the bulkheads, the two-piece orlop is then dropped into place. these sizeable chunks add a lot to the hull rigidity and will allow me to move things later when I start to fair the hull.

 

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Next time, I'll partially plank the orlop, add a few barrels and get ready to fit the grating frames. The sheets I got from Italy were cut in the wrong material, so I'm now waiting for the replacements to be sent. 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Kevin said:

love the locking of the pieces, would that interfere with a rabbit rebate

 

Not at all. The bottom of the reinforcement plate doesn't protrude past the bottom of the bulkheads.

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39 minutes ago, James H said:

The original instructions say to drop the bulkheads into position, followed by the orlop, and then apply (paint) glue around the joints. Now, that would normally be my own way of working too, but my glues set very quickly. I didn't want to screw this up, so I've ordered some Titebond Extend to help. This aliphatic resin glue takes up to 24hrs to fully cure and lets the modeller work for quite a while before it starts to set.

Once I get a bulkhead perfectly squared up and set I'd like use a glue that gives me a little wiggle room but sets up quickly enough that nothing moves. I can then move on to the next bulkhead without waiting a long time. Is there something about the size of this model that makes getting the bulkheads set properly that requires you to use Titebond Extend instead of regular Titebond or a similar PVA glue? 

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5 minutes ago, BobG said:

Once I get a bulkhead perfectly squared up and set I'd like use a glue that gives me a little wiggle room but sets up quickly enough that nothing moves. I can then move on to the next bulkhead without waiting a long time. Is there something about the size of this model that makes getting the bulkheads set properly that requires you to use Titebond Extend instead of regular Titebond or a similar PVA glue? 

Just that my regular glue sets very quickly...minutes. That stuff is Titebond Original and Evo-Stik PVA.

 

The orlop is good enough to line everything up properly, but with so many bulkheads and large glue faces, I want the glue to be workable when I drop those deck sections into place. I didn't want to lift the whole lot up with 17 loose bulkheads and heavy orlop, to try and paint glue into the joint areas. This is a very large hull.

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I had that glueing issue...that it dry's so fast already with the Pegasus, so I used also a wood glue that takes longer to dry. I can imagine with this model, you want indeed a slow drying glue. A lot of bulkheads in this design again, looks really good!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, mugje said:

I had that glueing issue...that it dry's so fast already with the Pegasus, so I used also a wood glue that takes longer to dry. I can imagine with this model, you want indeed a slow drying glue. A lot of bulkheads in this design again, looks really good!

 

 

I'm also not a very disciplined builder, so the extra time helps with my approach. 

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10 minutes ago, Strata said:

That joint between two halves of false keel looks really nice. Does it still leave some room for error or is it so good that you can't get a bent frame?

 

What I did was lay the keel halves out on my bench, which is kitchen worktop stuff and perfectly flat (you could use a glass sheet if you weren't sure about the bench being flat). I then glued the parts together with a straight edge to absolutely make sure they were even, and sat a weight on top of joint for extra insurance. Also remember that the MDF is perfectly straight too. When that glue set, I added the reinforcement plates, locking parts and keys.

 

You're extremely unlikely to get a bent frame or create any error. Those parts slot together very nicely and the whole joint was absolutely rigid when done.

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I noticed very little - if any- char removal. Are the bulkheads fitting well and square without intervention?   I can never figure out if char removal is a rule-of-thumb or just a common, though perhaps unnecessary, step.   

 

Thanks for sharing, as usual your photography is unmatched. 

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1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

He hasn’t faired the hull yet, I imagine most of it will disappear then. 

What about at the false keel / bulkhead junctions?  I've read arguments both for and against cleaning the char but it all seems down to individual preference.  I wonder if the material makes a difference (wood v. MDF)?

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4 minutes ago, ouizel said:

What about at the false keel / bulkhead junctions

I'm sure there are lots of opinions. Personally I've never cleaned the char from those. The glue will hold with the char there, it's somewhat a myth that it won't. I'd be more concerned about altering the fit if I sanded the bulkheads where they fit to the frame. You really want a tight fit. Sometimes you might have to sand a little to get that fit, but not to remove the char.

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I've never removed char from connecting joints. There's no reason to think that your glue won't penetrate those surfaces like it does with others. 

 

It won't fall to pieces.....I promise.

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13 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

The glue will hold with the char there, it's somewhat a myth that it won't.

I ran a small test once using PVA on two pieces of wood with and without char. After letting the glue dry, I tried to break the joints apart by hand and they were both very strong. I don't worry about gluing joints with char on them anymore. 

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4 hours ago, glbarlow said:

He hasn’t faired the hull yet, I imagine most of it will disappear then. 

Yes, I actually meant at the joints.  

3 hours ago, ouizel said:

What about at the false keel / bulkhead junctions?  I've read arguments both for and against cleaning the char but it all seems down to individual preference.  I wonder if the material makes a difference (wood v. MDF)?

This is what I meant, and should have been more specific.   I, too, have read the arguments and ultimately decided it comes down to the precision of the laser cutting and the fit. 

3 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I'm sure there are lots of opinions. Personally I've never cleaned the char from those. The glue will hold with the char there, it's somewhat a myth that it won't. I'd be more concerned about altering the fit if I sanded the bulkheads where they fit to the frame. You really want a tight fit. Sometimes you might have to sand a little to get that fit, but not to remove the char.

Ive never worried about the glue personally, more about that slight misalignment from recto/verso which might have an ill effect on squaring of the bulkheads.   I certainly had builds where sanding was required otherwise the bulkhead absolutely would not square.   Of course, Ive had some that were cut far wide and needed shimming to get a tight fit.   So I guess you do what you need, when you need to...  

 

Ultimately my question was more about James' approach (which he answered).   I see some folks go through and sand every last bit of char before assembly and turn out wonderful models and I'm always hunting down those steps which separate their wonderful models and my middling attempts :).     Was just curious how serious people are about that char, har har!   

 

Thanks James, Ill stop hijacking your build log now!   

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13 hours ago, James H said:

It won't fall to pieces.....I promise

That would be a bad thing... we have been waiting so long for a nice build😁😁

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