Making hooks and knees

[Brinkman]

Hello all, I'm planning a scratch build and found this forum with lots of resources to be inspired by. Does anyone have any ideas for the part I'm thinking about now?

 

The vessel is a small cog of 11 meters in scale 1:20 and it has the typical hooks in the stem and stern. How would you construct them?

 

They were in the original built like knees cut from crooked limbs but that will be hard to do in scale. But I still want the grain to follow the shape.

 

I see four alternatives.

 

1. To bend a plank. The plank would need to be wide and this sounds hard.

 

2. Two planks with a join strengthened with treenails.

 

3. Two layers laminated together. It would be strong, but the layering would be visible.

 

4. Cut from a big plank. Bad grain direction.

 

I feel that number two would be the best option.

 

The dashed lines shows the grain direction. The largest one is about 50mm long and 7mm wide.

 

How would you do?

[Jaager]

If you are determined to use curved grain, you could follow Davis and collect downed branches from useful species of trees after a wind storm = natural in scale curved stock.

A sure source of the proper species would be a nearby fruit orchard.  If they brush pile instead of immediately chipping, there will be already seasoned stock.  Just mind the critters inhabiting the brush.

If they let you get green trimmings from a tree, there is the drying /seasoning step.

The urban ornamental Pear trees here have excellent wood for our uses, but the branching is too acute for knees. 

Lumber with large knots - the wood around the branch is often the desired arc. 

 

For one ship, a fretsaw and hand plane will get you there -

[Jaager]

I go for option #4.    But rotate the pattern ~45 degrees.   Get angled cross grain in both arms.

[allanyed]

I think Jaager has the right idea if you only need a few knees.  Years ago  I had visions of making lodging and hanging knees from branches pruned in a local apple orchard.  No problem collecting hundreds of branches, but the cutting was not easy at scale so I gave up and used close grained (Castello boxwood) wood with no issues what so ever.  If you go with the crooked pieces, pear or apple would be great, and again, with only a few to make, it could be fun little project.   Problem right now is that they do not usually prune this time of year, but maybe a local orchard will have  brush piles as did the one near me and as Jaager suggests.   These would have pretty well dried wood.  Do not use fresh cut unless you want to debark them then wait months for them to thoroughly dry.  

Allan

[Brinkman]

Thank you Jaager and Allanyed for the tips regarding using branches, but I feel that the project already will throw me in the deep end of the pool. Using #4 but turning it 45 degrees sounds like the best solution. Thank you!

[wefalck]

Not sure you can see the pictures in this German forum, but a colleague there is just doing that, he uses down branches and trims them to shape: https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t7885f20-Slawenboot.html

 

Or lamination from many thin layers (plane sheavings) over a former.

[Bob Cleek]

Wefalck, Jaager and Allanyed have the best solution. Experience begins when you start doing it. It's not as difficult as you'd expect. Fruit trees are good. I also have found ornamental shrubs quite suitable, species like privets and similar hedges. Pick forked branches of suitable size and shape. For modeling purposes a pair of pruning shears are perfect. Make small cardboard patterns of the parts you want to make. They will come in handy to match up against the forks and "bents" as you cut them. When you get them home, scrape off the bark (a potato peeler often works well for this if the bark is thin,) let them dry a few weeks in a warm place. Thin stock should dry quickly. After that, lay the crook on a flat surface and plane the two faces flat to the molded dimension you want. Then trace the shape of the piece from the pattern you made and carefully cut it out with a jeweler's saw or scroll saw, if you have one. 

 

It isn't just for looks that this method is best. It also, by far, results in the strongest parts. 

[rwiederrich]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 4:12 PM, Bob Cleek said:

Wefalck, Jaager and Allanyed have the best solution. Experience begins when you start doing it. It's not as difficult as you'd expect. Fruit trees are good. I also have found ornamental shrubs quite suitable, species like privets and similar hedges. Pick forked branches of suitable size and shape. For modeling purposes a pair of pruning shears are perfect. Make small cardboard patterns of the parts you want to make. They will come in handy to match up against the forks and "bents" as you cut them. When you get them home, scrape off the bark (a potato peeler often works well for this if the bark is thin,) let them dry a few weeks in a warm place. Thin stock should dry quickly. After that, lay the crook on a flat surface and plane the two faces flat to the molded dimension you want. Then trace the shape of the piece from the pattern you made and carefully cut it out with a jeweler's saw or scroll saw, if you have one. 

 

It isn't just for looks that this method is best. It also, by far, results in the strongest parts. 

Just like the prototype...…..

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Silverman , i just made knees for lifeboat and found quite easy way toovercome grain direction. i would definitely go for 4 way. im not sure how small your knees are be it miniature i just draw knees on 3 mm cherry pannel wood, and drilled holes along curvy sides . them i easily cut outer straight sides out. then  i start gently removing wood towards holes on unparallel leg of the knee up to the 2/3 towards knee center and when done just cut alongside holes on other leg of knee. as grain runs there alongside holes it cuts quickly. probably not celarly explained i should add pics later. happy build. Vlad