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Boothbay 65 Schooner by allanyed - FINISHED


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What are you on about Allan, that skylight looks really good.  Are you talking about the porthole shaped skylight?  The only thing I can see is that the 'glass' may need some polishing/cleaning. 

 

Excellent work on the wood finish, it will look great when sealed and polished.  Nice work overall.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Nice work Allen - she is looking sweet!  I really like that wood tone with the white.  It’s so clean and cheerful.  Hand rails look great too.  I must try your scraper method sometime.  Scrapers are commonly used in furniture finishing and I can see where the technique would work nicely on fine wood modeling as well.

 

Gary

Current Build   Pelican Eastern-Rig Dragger  

 

Completed Scratch Builds

Rangeley Guide Boat   New England Stonington Dragger   1940 Auto Repair Shop   Mack FK Shadowbox    

 

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Thanks to all of you!

 

Thanks Pat, but I did not show the skylight in the photos as it is a mess IMHO.   The photos do show the sliding tops at the entrance to the deck houses, but I left out the skylight for now.   The problem was in making the hinges.   The frame and protection bars were not an issue, but the hinges are really small even at this scale and have been a challenge.  Couple ideas have come to mind that I will be trying today and tomorrow.

 

Gary, I agree on the colors and was very happy that the architect had done the color drawing as well as the architectural drafts.  To try to match it reasonably close I have, Castello for the decks and house tops, cherry for the rails, Swiss pear for the doors, hatches, and other red trim pieces, and English boxwood for the mast rings as it machines so nicely.    Metal parts are all brass, most of which are blackened, frames are birch plywood, and deck frames and all parts painted white are made with poplar from the local Home Depot.  Glad I have maintained a scrap pile over the years as it came in handy for this project.  I last bought cherry about 10 years ago, and feel good now that I kept all the odds and ends that I feared would never see the light of day again.

 

If anyone has good experience rigging wire shrouds and stays, I would love to read any advice you can offer.  This will be my first foray into using stainless steel wire for the standing rigging.    I have two sizes of 7X7 strand  SS wire on order from McMaster Carr as they had a good selection of sizes to match scale sizes for the model and their prices are fair.   Looks like I will have to make my own compression clamp fittings and not sure of the best way to make these.  So far I could not find any that were small enough to go with the wire sizes I will be using.    I was able to find down to 1/16" but that is the equivalent of 1.5" diameter rope which is too large in this case.  

 

Allan

 

 

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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Thanks Roger!!   Yes, real time.  I have been under a bit of a self- imposed deadline and trying to give at least 5-6 hours a day on her, often more.   BUT,  I do NOT get any pressure from the client at all and it has been a great joy building a model of a vessel that is literally still on the drawing boards.  There are two items that I have found in building the model that indicate some adjustments are needed on the drawings and they have welcomed these pieces of input. 

 

Back to making sawdust.

 

Allan  

 

 

 

 

 

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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13 hours ago, allanyed said:

If anyone has good experience rigging wire shrouds and stays, I would love to read any advice you can offer.  This will be my first foray into using stainless steel wire for the standing rigging.   

Hi again Alan,  I am also commencing this journey and have been doing a little experimentation.  I purchased some plastic coated wire, which I think may be fishing trace  to try; mine is clear but you can also get black coated.  it did not matter for me as I intended, and did, melt the coating off.  I also wish to experiment with control wire used with the tethered RC planes.  I tried the former type first, as once the plastic is off the lay of the wire is more like the real thing with a 'flatter' longer lay.

 

My initial worries are that it kinks a little too easily and if you tension it enough to remove these, there is too much strain on the fittings; but I am at scale 1:72.  I found that by stretching it, it did remove many of the kinks but still not good enough that it would look right.  I have not tried the control wire yet.

 

I am also considering using a silver or grey thread made up into a loose/greater angle lay rope instead.  The problem is that I am not sure it would stay together so well if laid at say 70 degrees.  I will be interested in your thoughts on all this also.

 

WRT to setting up the wires, for my build at least, the wires were not spliced but rather turned on a thimble and seized back on themselves (according to Underhill).  I am assuming that yours may even be 'swaged' or ferrule crimped?  Also, mine were set up with rigging screws and for the shrouds - rigmaiden lanyards ( metal tensioning device that had the same purpose like rigging screws).  This will make things a little easier but finding or making (I am doing the latter) rigging screws is difficult/frustrating at 1:72 :(

 

I also have to see how wire will respond in my serving machine as Underhill writes that the foremost leg of the shroud gangs, the eyes, and the tail ends of the wire ropes were parcelled (not wormed), and served.  I have read somewhere, but not yet found it again, that the parceling was painted with white lead before being served, then the whole wire treated with boiled linseed oil.  Not sure what the modern practices are, or whether you will need to do any serving.

 

Hope this helps a little?

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:57 AM, allanyed said:

If anyone has good experience rigging wire shrouds and stays,

Allan

 

I use beading wire, as do a number of fellow MWS members. You can get it in various diameters. Its quite flexible and does not kink easily. It is plastic coated but if you use the clear plastic cover its virtually invisible.

1424001378_Screenshot2020-10-22at21_03_56.png.411ba0fc5fd9573d5e6c0101957b9353.png

 

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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Thanks for that Keith, had not thought on beading wire - will need to check that out also.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Beaders/Jewelers use a piece called a "crimp" with special pliers to attach the crimp and lock the wires in place.  Small diameter tube - various finishes - put the end of the wire through the crimp, thread on the eyebolt, hook or turnbuckle and put the end of the wire back through the crimp and crimp the tube with the pliers and cut the excess wire off.

 

The photo shows a crimp at the top of the turnbuckle on the wire rigging line.  This is a 1:12 scale model with 7 strand SS wire about 0.015 diameter. 

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Kurt Van Dahm

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Pat, Keith, and Kurt, MANY thanks!!!

 

I did receive the stainless steel wire and crimp pieces for the larger diameter wire and will be doing some experimenting in the near future.   I also will be going to Michaels for supplies setting up sail making stretcher board frame and such as explained in the sail making booklet by David Antscherl so will get some beading wire to see how it compares if they have appropriate sizes.  Even if they just have the crimp pieces it will be worth the trip into town.    I have an electricians' cutting/crimping plier but will look at the crimping tool as well.  

 

As you say Pat, some experimenting into this new venture is no doubt appropriate so will be doing just that and will post the results here.

Thanks again gentlemen.

 

Couple updated photos.  Deck cleats have been made and "bolted" to the deck.   Each cleat was drilled and has a brass rod epoxied in place.  A hole was drilled in the deck for each cleat and the cleat then set in place with the rod passing through the deck and epoxied in place.  Small fife rails were installed as well.  The pins are brass and were made on my lathe and the mini drill press was used to file and sand the end of the handle portion. They were then cleaned with acetone and blackened.   The first two coats of clear finish have been applied.  A light steel wool rub is needed in a few places and some touch up spots for sure, then the last coats of finish will go on.  

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

 

348583477_Belayingpin.JPG.cc75cc85e10580c6d6d9dcd922113a47.JPG

1468980394_Mainmastfiferailandforwarddeckhousewithskylight.thumb.JPG.a5fc19b02de1a1853b2da14e01e054fa.JPG

 

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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20 hours ago, kurtvd19 said:

thread on the eyebolt, hook or turnbuckle and put the end of the wire back through the crimp and crimp the tube with the pliers and cut the excess wire off.

Kurt

 

Yes that's the way I do it. I burn off the plastic coating before threading the wire through the crimping tube as it allows the tube to be much smaller and more to scale. 

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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Made the plough anchor and anchor roller which is attached to the bow sprit.    Also making hoops for the main and fore sails to go on the masts.  I have made them of brass and colored them in the past, but trying wood this go around.  I have soaked strips of holly that were cut to the proper width and thickness then wrapped them around a dowel slight larger than the widest diameter of the masts.  Once dry they will be cut slightly oversized, taken off the dowel and glued to form the hoop.  So far, looking good but the jury is still out on this one.  Holly is extremely easy to bend without splitting when wet so I have high hopes on this.   

Allan485888907_Plowanchoronanchorrolleronsprit.JPG.25cb97052a255732a7fc38d9152911b6.JPG 

 

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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11 hours ago, allanyed said:

Made the plough anchor

Allan, Anchors can be quite tricky things to make. The photo isn't very revealing but it would be good to know your process for making it.

 

Also the mast hoops look good but what was your rationale for making them out of holly rather than metal. 

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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Keith,

 

Wood is what is proposed on the actual vessel so I thought to give it a try.  That and the fact that I could not machine  a hole 0.65" diameter in brass stock.  I don't have the skill to do that nor a drill bitt that large to do so on the lathe.  If it had been 1/2" or less I could have drilled a hole in a piece of brass stock and then cut the rings.   IF the wood does not work out I will bite the bullet and see what I can do to to get a proper sized drill bitt or learn how to machine the hole with a cutting tool.  I remember doing this in a shop class back in the 60's on a full size lathe aboard ship, but over 50 years later, memory is not serving as well as it once did.  :>(

 

Regarding the anchor, I did a search on line to see how these types of anchors were assembled and found a few drawings as well.  I made the arm in two pieces as there is a pivot,  then made the flukes separately.  I made all pieces from styrene, then silver paint to represent the galvanized finish on the anchor.   The ring on the end of the arm is just a piece of brass rod.   Not overly complicated.  I had never used styrene in the past but after following Garry's Stonington Dragger build log thought to give it a try and found that there are definitely items that warrant use of this material.   

 

Allan

 

 

Edited by allanyed

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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Thank you Allan, I always seem to forget that styrene is an option. 
 

Boring out rod is pretty straight forward, let me know if you need any advice.......... but as you say the original is wood then wood is A good way to go.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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Keith,

I had never used styrene in the past as it is non-traditional and I TRY (although do not always succeed) to stay with traditional contemporary materials whenever possible, ie. wood and metal.

 

Regarding boring out a rod, I should get a cutting tool and give it a try as it has been so long since doing it and there are times when it would be more accurate than a drill bitt.   I am pretty sure it should be nothing more than the right size/shaped cutting tool and setting up the tool holder properly but would love to hear and see anything you can offer to avoid mistakes.    Thanks for the offer!!!

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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I tend to look not too often into 20th or let alone 21th century subjects, I must admit, so I had missed the build log so far and hence missed to the opportunity to comment.

 

As to the curved separation line between bottom paint and the hull paint: there may be also a bit of tradition into it, not only the already counteraction of the optical illusion of sagging ends, when compared to the upsweeping bow and stern; it can make the ship look going faster than it actually does, giving the illusion of dynamism; in the old days wooden ships often developped what is called 'hogging', meaning the ships' ends actually sagged because of les buoyancy there, painting a raising waterline covered this fault visually to some extent.

 

Concerning the use of wire for rigging: modellers of scale WWI air-craft are catered for by a variety of hard-ware by the model industry, perhaps one could find something interesting there, but I am not familiar with suppliers.

 

Otherwise, this is an interesting and well-executed project of a somewhat unusual subject. I really wonder how those passengers in wheel-chairs cope with a heeling vessel and it rolling and pitching.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Allan,

 

Wooden mast hoops-  I hesitate giving advice to a professional, BUT:

 

I made wooden mast hoops for a model longboat model that I built by soaking very thin strips of pear that had been soaked in water around a dowel.  The result was a collection of scale thickness mast hoops.  That had to be slipped over the mast prior to rigging as they would then be trapped by the shrouds and stays.

 

When I added furled sails, the tension of the thread between the hoops and the sail bolt rope caused some of them to break.  Fortunately, I was able to salvage enough of them to at least give the illusion that I wanted.  

 

Moral of of the story, test before use.

 

Roger

 

 

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Roger,

I have gone the exact route that you describe.  I did indeed do some testing to check if much tension would break or distort the finished rings.  Holly being the choice I made turned out to be a good one as they held up to my makeshift tests with no issues at all.  If this were to be a pond model, I would likely have gone with something stronger.  As it is static and the sails will be my first go at using silk span since I built a few planes WAAAAYYYYY back in time, they will be quite light and should present no issues.  I have read and re-read David Antscherl's booklet on making silk span sails and will post my results once I begin making them.  Got the materials he listed so ready to go in the near future.   

 

Wefalck, 

I was able to get the scale size wires I was looking for from my go-to supplier, McMaster Carr.  The hardest part was they had so many wire choices that I had to spend a lot of time to be sure I made the right selection.  Your comment on wheel chairs on a sail boat is well taken.  The boat is designed for leisure day sailing, but of course any wind can cause her to heel over, so I am positive it is something the designer and builders have considered.   Their yard is busy as can be right now getting Ernestina back to sailing condition which will be a treat to see when she is back in the water.

 

Allan 

 

 

Edited by allanyed

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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Allen,

 

I’m also an old balsa and silkspan model airplane builder.  I still have a Curtis Jenny kit in my stash that I inherited from my father.  As a teenager, my father worked for a Warren, Ohio barnstormer who flew one in exchange for getting to fly.  When they put me in an old folks home, I’ll build it.

 

I used silkspan for the furled sails of my longboat model.  I didn’t have David’s book, so I don’t know what he recommends.  I rolled a coat of acrylic paint on,  drew seams on with a pencil, and glued on bolt ropes and reinforcing points.  The sails bundled up nicely and Iwas pleased with the results.

 

Roger

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Allan,

Depending on the lathe, small boring bars aren't that pricey and fairly easy to use.  The only trick is to drill a hole in the end of the brass before using the bar.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Oh, yes, I meant to also comment on this. I am using small single-lip carbide milling cutters as boring bars in my lathe. One has to start with a drill slighly larger than the boring bar and then open up the hole. Through-holes and blind holes can be done that way. It is also quite easy to grind 'D-bits' yourself from either virgin drill-rod or broken HSS twist drills. Over a short distance you grind away half the diameter and then at the front a relief angle and a slight clearance angle at the front. When you grind an oblique face to the broken end of the drill, you can also use this end for boring. All these 'boring bars' have to be set with their axis at a slight, a couple of degrees, angle to the lathe axis to provide side clearance.

 

I used silkspan (or tissue-paper) on virtually of my models as a basis for sails, but then I have been working in small scales, well from 1:60 down. Basically, I soaked the material in paint, evolving with the availability of paint types, drawing on the panels with ink and later putting the sails together from individual panels, adding reenforcements etc.

 

For the bolt-rope initially (in the late 1970s) I dreamt up a technique, whereby I used my mother's sophisticated sewing-machine, making very close (at a distance of the thread diameter) stitches using the zig-zag program with the minimum width. This resulted in a kind of 'worm' around the sail. The silk-span was attached to a sheet of tissue-paper with a few blobs of glue outside the sail area to prevent the fabric from distorting while beeing fed through the sewing-machine. The paper then could be torn off and the sail cut to size. This I did until I learned, that the bolt-rope is not attached to the edge of the sail, but rather to one side of the sail. Thereafter, I just glued on the bolt-rope.

 

You will have to try out covering the silk-span with a varying amount of paint to see, whether it really looks convincing in 1:24 scale.

 

Recently a German colleague developed a technique whereby he sandwiches a sheet of ordinary silk-paper (or silk-span) between two layers of the extremely fine tissue-paper used in archival paper repair. This tissue-paper is coated on one side in a heat-activated acrylic glue. The 'panels' are cut from this tissue-paper and ironed onto the silk-paper as carrier. His sails are translucent against the light and look very convincing. I had not had yet the opportunity to try this myself - couldn't get the tissue-paper here in Paris and then came Corona ...

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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 Wefalck, when you give this sail making a try as you described, PLEASE post a "How To" along with photos here at MSW.  

As far as getting not being able to get the paper in Paris, based on my visits to your city over the years, I would very quickly give up the paper in exchange for a good bagette and jambon for lunch and a plate of rognan avec moutard for dinner!!   

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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Well, with the lock-down (well a kind of half-hearted one really), not much will happen in any case until Christmas, I am afraid. Restaurants and non-essential shops are all closed. Personally, rognons (together with Andouillette AAA and snails) are something I don't really care for ;)

 

Obviously, we have a several good art-shops, but only one them stocks (in principle) this product: https://www.neschen.de/en/product/filmoplast-r-2/. When I visited them at the end of last year, they had run out of it and didn't know, when they would get it back. I wanted to give it a try, though the project I would be using it for is still a long time away. One can get it through the Internet, but shipping cost are just too high. Perhaps you can find something similar in the USA, based on the product description in the above link. Neschen is the manufacturer of this product and they give quite detailed instructions, also in English, for its use. Once I get to it, I will certainly report on the experience.

 

Eberhard

Edited by wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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Thanks Eberhard, I appreciate you following this build and sharing your experiences now and over these past years.    I guess if you get to the UK, steak and kidney pie will not by your first choice. 😄    I love snails as well, but my wife went from loving them to hating them when we lived in Southern California many years ago and she saw them always crawling on the side of the house and getting into the succulent plants for their own meals.   

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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I love steak pie and mash, but minus the kidneys ;).  Found eating snails always revolting and having to dissect some in the biology class at university didn't help either - however, they are actually interesting animals from a biological point of view.

Wouldn't eat (voluntarily) mussels either, but my then girlfriend (and now wife) insisted that I try oysters and in those pre-Covid days we would go a couple of times a year to one of the traditional Parisian brasseries that specialise in them (e.g. this is a favourite one: http://www.mollard.fr/?lang=en) . She claims that I eat them because they are posh enough ;)

 

However, this has nothing to do with ship-building ...

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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