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Glory of the Seas medium clipper 1869 by rwiederrich - 1/96


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6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Well lets go then sir......now you know how far the bar is set....😎

 

He stares at me everyday.....I'm a nervous wreck.....🤪

Vladimir, to ease your understandable tension and add great inspiration to your day, just ignore McKay's steely stare of Rob's avatar and focus on the serene beauty of Samuel Walters' "GLORY of the SEAS" which, not coincidentally is my avatar..... 😉

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7 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, to ease your understandable tension and add great inspiration to your day, just ignore McKay's steely stare of Rob's avatar and focus on the serene beauty of Samuel Walters' "GLORY of the SEAS" which, not coincidentally is my avatar..... 😉

Scardies.....

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12 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, it's much easier to get accurate scale dimensions for your project. As I told Vladimir, I'm very confident that the cargo port's side accounts for exactly 4 strakes, as seen from a clear enough 1869 image of Glory on the Ways. According to the MacLean construction details, each strake was 6 1/2". That makes the cargo port's side 26". Since it's wider than it's tall, I estimated the cargo port width as 3'. To scale that's a smidge above 1/4" high (2'2") and exactly 3/8ths wide (3').

 

THAT'S WHAT i CAME UP WITH.....   I just needed confirmation...thanks.

 

Rob

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36 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

THAT'S WHAT i CAME UP WITH.....   I just needed confirmation...thanks.

 

Rob

Rob. Anytime you need me to confirm redundant information, I'm there for you pal!

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I went right into adding some hull details.  I started with the spillways or flushing ports and then added the hull cargo ports.

 

Once I finish the muntz plating(which is next)  and painting them metalic...I will give the entire hull a dull coat...coat to protect the weathering and to protect the muntz.

 

The dull coat also covers up any glossy or shinny errors or things I don't want shinny.

 

Rob

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32 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I went right into adding some hull details.  I started with the spillways or flushing ports and then added the hull cargo ports.

 

Once I finish the muntz plating(which is next)  and painting them metalic...I will give the entire hull a dull coat...coat to protect the weathering and to protect the muntz.

 

The dull coat also covers up any glossy or shinny errors or things I don't want shinny.

 

Rob

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Rob as usual these images of your rapid, yet highly accurate details are truly astounding. The deck looks gorgeous. Meanwhile by keeping the sizes of the freeing ports and docking port true to scale, they all combine to give a better comprehension of how seriously massive this vessel was. Great work!

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Posted (edited)

Dry fitting the bowsprit......lots of work still to do..but there needs to be a beginning..  Notice the correct spacing and locations marked out for the banding.......  the bowsprit will be cut to proper length after fit is satisfactory.

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Edited by rwiederrich
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32 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob as usual these images of your rapid, yet highly accurate details are truly astounding. The deck looks gorgeous. Meanwhile by keeping the sizes of the freeing ports and docking port true to scale, they all combine to give a better comprehension of how seriously massive this vessel was. Great work!

The true issue was making sure the framing matched up with the port at the right location.  You don't want a port on the outside that doesn't match with the space available between the correct two frames inside.......

Much pre-thought went into the construction.  Thanks for the fine compliments.

 

Rob 

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I'm not going to affix the bowsprit at this time...I just wanted to turn it down on the lathe and square up its base to the contour of the hull.  And to make sure the banding was properly located and in scale.

 

I will stop working on the monkey rail addition and such, and will resume  after the muntz plates are installed.

I will demonstrate how I make the embossed plate strips in my next installment.  I have some left over from the Great Republic, but will need tons more.

I devised a method that is quick and can be applied quickly.       Sounds like my favorite song....*Quickly*.

 

I'll be back to the shop next week..bringing more  fun and mischief.

 

Rob

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Dry fitting the bowsprit......lots of work still to do..but there needs to be a beginning..  Notice the correct spacing and locations marked out for the banding.......  the bowsprit will be cut to proper length after fit is satisfactory.

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Rob, looks like your Bowsprit has the proper flattening, just like in the razor sharp 1911 close up of Glory's Bow & Figurehead image Mike was so generous In sharing with us. The seven bands which encircle the Bowsprit are exactly 3' apart, center to center, leaving an even 18" at the foot and 18" before the cap for an exact total distance of 24'. Which is precisely as Duncan Maclean specified in his detailed description of Glory at launch. To scale, that would make the Bowsprit a total of 3 1/4" (3" for Bowsprit & 1/4" for end Cap. What fascinates me too is the precision placement of Glory's lovely, serene Greek Goddess 'Athene'. She rests gracefully with the tip of her head being precisely half way between bands 3 and 4 or another words 18". The tip of the Naval Hood ends precisely under band 3, so we know that is exactly 18" from the back of 'Athene's' head. To scale, that's 3/16ths" to be equivalent to 18"  & 3/8ths for 3' spacing of the iron bands center to center. Finally when the Flying Jibboom above is fitted, there's an 8th band which fits precisely dead center between bands 1 and 2. This is the only band which encircles both Jibboom & Bowsprit. It also is unique in that it's the sole band that has an adjustable screw device. Since often Ships at Dock would loosen the Jibboom, pull it out of it's setting and reposition it inboard, that makes perfect sense. 

Speaking of the Jibboom, there's another noticeable difference. Unlike the Bowsprit below it, the Jibboom actually gets flattened and thinned down gradually at a slight sloping angle. This appears to begin halfway between bands 2 and 3, which would make this about 4' or 1/2" to scale. Inner Bobstay mount appears to attach directly to band 6 and outer Bobstay mount does the same at band 7. The image is so clear we can estimate the length of the 2 Bobstay iron mounts which also appear to be 3' in length. There's a 1' thick horizontal shelf (for lack of a better term) that mounts on the side of the Bowsprit. It ends at the Cap with a gracefully carved indent, covers bands 6 and 7 and ends with the same graceful indent at the inner end. There appear to be small round heads of some form of iron bars, which are also equidistant from each other. The end Cap itself appears to be a single carved wooden device capped at both ends by more massive iron bands. Looking closer, instead of 2' this za Cap also appears to be 18". Just before the end Cap below is the mounting point of the Dolphin Striker. While only a small sawn of portion remains, it's clear it was a flexible device as the mounting point shows a shackle attachment. Finally there are 2 restraining chain links which mount directly to the Hull. 

As usual Rob, it looks like you have this device properly modeled. Great work, as usual!

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Edited by ClipperFan
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5 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, looks like your Bowsprit has the proper flattening, just like in the razor sharp 1911 close up of Glory's Bow & Figurehead image Mike was so generous In sharing with us. The seven bands which encircle the Bowsprit are exactly 3' apart, center to center, leaving an even 18" at the foot and 18" before the cap for an exact total distance of 24'. Which is precisely as Duncan Maclean specified in his detailed description of Glory at launch. To scale, that would make the Bowsprit a total of 3 1/4" (3" for Bowsprit & 1/4" for end Cap. What fascinates me too is the precision placement of Glory's lovely, serene Greek Goddess 'Athene'. She rests gracefully with the tip of her head being precisely half way between bands 3 and 4 or another words 18". The tip of the Naval Hood ends precisely under band 3, so we know that is exactly 18" from the back of 'Athene's' head. To scale, that's 3/16ths" to be equivalent to 18"  & 3/8ths for 3' spacing of the iron bands center to center. Finally when the Flying Jibboom above is fitted, there's an 8th band which fits precisely dead center between bands 1 and 2. This is the only band which encircles both Jibboom & Bowsprit. It also is unique in that it's the sole band that has an adjustable screw device. Since often Ships at Dock would loosen the Jibboom, pull it out of it's setting and reposition it inboard, that makes perfect sense. 

Speaking of the Jibboom, there's another noticeable difference. Unlike the Bowsprit below it, the Jibboom actually gets flattened and thinned down gradually at a slight sloping angle. This appears to begin halfway between bands 2 and 3, which would make this about 4' or 1/2" to scale. Inner Bobstay mount appears to attach directly to band 6 and outer Bobstay mount does the same at band 7. The image is so clear we can estimate the length of the 2 Bobstay iron mounts which also appear to be 3' in length. There's a 1' thick horizontal shelf (for lack of a better term) that mounts on the side of the Bowsprit. It ends at the Cap with a gracefully carved indent, covers bands 6 and 7 and ends with the same graceful indent at the inner end. There appear to be small round heads of some form of iron bars, which are also equidistant from each other. The end Cap itself appears to be a single carved wooden device capped at both ends by more massive iron bands. Looking closer, instead of 2' this za Cap also appears to be 18". Just before the end Cap below is the mounting point of the Dolphin Striker. While only a small sawn of portion remains, it's clear it was a flexible device as the mounting point shows a shackle attachment. Finally there are 2 restraining chain links which mount directly to the Hull. 

As usual Rob, it looks like you have this device properly modeled. Great work, as usual!

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Rob, Vladimir, I have no idea how crazy detailed you want to make your replicas but since the information is available for a Keen eye to spot, I'm going to share it. I think it befits the genius of Donald McKay in the most minute details. 

While reviewing the 1911 detailed Bow picture, I spotted another device which I hadn't noticed before. There's a very long thin iron bar which mounts into the prow, runs parallel to the Bowsprit and appears to attach to bottom of the rear end of the shelf device tucked neatly at the Cap. An added detail I couldn't include yesterday is that the 2 round bolts which attach the shelf to the Bowsprit mount just in front of band 6 and band 7. There also appear to be 2 diagonal lines, the innermost has a Jibsail attached, which also mount to this Starboard shelf.

I took a closer look at the 2 Bobstay links. What first impressed me as being iron, upon closer inspection now looks much more likely to be thick rope. Another fascinating niggly detail is on the innermost side of both, there's a very long, thin line that attaches to the chain links. It appears to be about 20 links down. What its function is, I have no idea. 

There are also similar block & tackle devices which attach to the chains which spread apart and mount to the Bow of the Ship, out of the range of this scene. You can see how they mount in the 1869 Glory on the Ways picture. 

A couple more fascinating but significant items. About a foot or so below Glory's Figurehead is a preventer coupling that mounts to the lower carved arch on the Cutwater and with proper tension, would mount to the inner Bobstay chain link. It must be there to prevent damage to the Figurehead.

Finally, at least to me, I get the distinct impression that the end of the Naval Hoods are slightly angled forward. There's a line which runs down from the first recessed section of the quarterdeck rail and goes down backwards diagonally which mirrors this feature precisely. Another small supporting detail is the triple lower moldings of the Naval Hoods also stagger slightly inward from bottom to top. It's very subtile but definitely there.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

While reviewing the 1911 detailed Bow picture, I spotted another device which I hadn't noticed before. There's a very long thin iron bar which mounts into the prow, runs parallel to the Bowsprit and appears to attach to bottom of the rear end of the shelf device tucked neatly at the Cap. An added detail I couldn't include yesterday is that the 2 round bolts which attach the shelf to the Bowsprit mount just in front of band 6 and band 7. There also appear to be 2 diagonal lines, the innermost has a Jibsail attached, which also mount to this Starboard shelf.

Rich..what you are describing is the topmast jib stay mounting.  The stay comes down from the topmast to the bowsprit and goes through the topmast jib sheave(the bowsprit bees)....then back to the base of the bowsprit...where it terminates.  What you are seeing is NOT an iron bar....but the stay itself...running along the underside of the bowsprit.

 

Why..you ask?  Because the jib stays are not mounted directly to the bowsprit and jibboom......but because of flexure and deflection they need to stretch and flex with the bowsprit and jibboom.  A firm but flexible rigging.  The royal and sky stays typically come down and go through sheaves in the jibboom and then back toward the martingale and then to adjustable bullnoses/reeving hearts fixed to the hull.

 

Rob 

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9 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Rich..what you are describing is the topmast jib stay mounting.  The stay comes down from the topmast to the bowsprit and goes through the topmast jib sheave(the bowsprit bees)....then back to the base of the bowsprit...where it terminates.  What you are seeing is NOT an iron bar....but the stay itself...running along the underside of the bowsprit.

 

Why..you ask?  Because the jib stays are not mounted directly to the bowsprit and jibboom......but because of flexure and deflection they need to stretch and flex with the bowsprit and jibboom.  A firm but flexible rigging.  The royal and sky stays typically come down and go through sheaves in the jibboom and then back toward the martingale and then to adjustable bullnoses/reeving hearts fixed to the hull.

 

Rob 

Rob, that makes perfect sense when you explain the way you do. When it comes to attempting to describe all of these varying details, I'm beginning to feel like a "Landlubber!"

So you referred to the shelves that these lines run through as Bowsprit Bees? Is that the correct nautical term for these devices?

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5 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, that makes perfect sense when you explain the way you do. When it comes to attempting to describe all of these varying details, I'm beginning to feel like a "Landlubber!"

So you referred to the shelves that these lines run through as Bowsprit Bees? Is that the correct nautical term for these devices?

Yep

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  Ach so ... Ausgezeichnet !!  Something useful for most any late clipper (and earlier).  On small models I used to tie a stay and then continue it, but on large enough models something that looks like a bee or sheave is in order.  I too have much to learn.  BTW, the 'Glory' postings have been of great interest to many and are definitely among the 'hot' topics on the forum. Bravo!

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3 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Ach so ... Ausgezeichnet !!  Something useful for most any late clipper (and earlier).  On small models I used to tie a stay and then continue it, but on large enough models something that looks like a bee or sheave is in order.  I too have much to learn.  BTW, the 'Glory' postings have been of great interest to many and are definitely among the 'hot' topics on the forum. Bravo!

Snug Harbor Johnny, Rob should definitely get a write up in the Modeler's forum. Something to really give him a swelled head, you know, like Duncan MacLean used to do? For, like every Clipper Ship that slid down the Ways. Superlative! Incredible! The bestest, fastest ever! Uncanny design! Nothing will beat it!! (never mind he just said precisely the same thing at last month's launch!)

Honestly though, it's reassuring to know Rob's little group is getting noticed. On that note, I would also strongly encourage everyone to be ready to pre-order Michael Mejeld's incredible 3rd publication on our favorite topic "GLORY of the SEAS". It's going to be titled "Down East Captain." 

Maybe if we all do a group order, we might be able to score early autographed copies as well!

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3 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Ach so ... Ausgezeichnet !!  Something useful for most any late clipper (and earlier).  On small models I used to tie a stay and then continue it, but on large enough models something that looks like a bee or sheave is in order.  I too have much to learn.  BTW, the 'Glory' postings have been of great interest to many and are definitely among the 'hot' topics on the forum. Bravo!

I am also happy glory as ship grabbed interest and is noticed by wider audience here on MSW! 

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12 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Snug Harbor Johnny, Rob should definitely get a write up in the Modeler's forum. Something to really give him a swelled head, you know, like Duncan MacLean used to do? For, like every Clipper Ship that slid down the Ways. Superlative! Incredible! The bestest, fastest ever! Uncanny design! Nothing will beat it!! (never mind he just said precisely the same thing at last month's launch!)

Honestly though, it's reassuring to know Rob's little group is getting noticed. On that note, I would also strongly encourage everyone to be ready to pre-order Michael Mejeld's incredible 3rd publication on our favorite topic "GLORY of the SEAS". It's going to be titled "Down East Captain." 

Maybe if we all do a group order, we might be able to score early autographed copies as well!

now i know ahead what santa ( miSelf) brings me this year   :D 

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Posted (edited)

Rob & Vladimir I'm finally feeling well enough to go back to completing my vision of how "GLORY of the SEAS" truly looked. This sketch is precisely to 1:72nd scale err, oops per MrBlueJacket this is actually 1:96th scale (1" = 8' or 1/8ths"=1'). 1:72nd scale is 1/6ths"=1'. 20210726_180938.thumb.jpg.42c85b214d4e3a8f3864c4e6c8c858c8.jpg I don't have large enough paper to do one continuous drawing, so I've taped 3 ledger sized pages and added a section to include the entire Bowsprit & Jibboom. 

When you lay out the Keel to exactly 240' & Main Deck between perpendiculars of 250' it results in this Bow profile. With a 10' Stern, the distance from Taffrail to Knightheads of 265' matches precisely the profile as seen in the 1911 Seattle close up. FYI Glory's Grecian Goddess 'Athene' is exactly 7 1/2' from head to toe. 

This is still very much a work in progress but I wanted to share my progress with you and hear what your responses are. My eventual goal is to share this radically different interpretation of Glory's lines with Michael Mjelde to give him what I feel is a more accurate ship's plans than Ron Haug's still disappointing version.

 

 

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Edited by ClipperFan
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Well back from North Dakota...I spent a bit working out the plating....I removed the tape and began the work......

 

I'm using the remainder of what was left over and I will be making more in the next couple of days.

 

Not much time today to work but here are some starter images.

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1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Well back from North Dakota...I spent a bit working out the plating....I removed the tape and began the work......

 

Are you planning on putting in a gore line or just run it continuously?

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5 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, welcome back! I hope you enjoyed your trip. The coppering process is so beautiful, even at this short beginning.

 

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob & Vladimir I'm finally feeling well enough to go back to completing my vision of how "GLORY of the SEAS" truly looked. This sketch is precisely to 1:72nd scale (1" = 8'). I don't have large enough paper to do one continuous drawing, so I've taped 3 ledger sized pages and added a section to include the entire Bowsprit & Jibboom. 

When you lay out the Keel to exactly 240' & Main Deck between perpendiculars of 250' it results in this Bow profile. With a 10' Stern, the distance from Taffrail to Knightheads of 265' matches precisely the profile as seen in the 1911 Seattle close up. FYI Glory's Grecian Goddess 'Athene' is exactly 7 1/2' from head to toe. 

This is still very much a work in progress but I wanted to share my progress with you and hear what your responses are. My eventual goal is to share this radically different interpretation of Glory's lines with Michael Mjelde to give him what I feel is a more accurate ship's plans than Ron Haug's still disappointing version.

 

 

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20210726_180938.jpg

20210726_181046.jpg

20210726_181208.jpg

20210726_183225.jpg

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Its been busy here :) I aplaud to your drawing ability Rich detailing wise. measures aside bow is perfect i woudl say from the point i have it in head every day when working with it stern as well maybe one bit id have to look to books is sternpost curvature when meeting rudder hole. i thought its littel smaller but as planks foloow it makes perfect sense like this.  i like rudder sketch  going inside and the shape. and keel measures waterway and sheer is measured as well. just wow. pretty amazing stuff i can tell. 

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