Edge Gluing Planking

[Neil10]

In my full scale wood projects I have found that when regular wood glue squeezes out from a joint (and it always doesJ and I then try to wipe it off with a damp cloth, then no matter how hard I try to cleanup the wood the glue remains around the joint will stand out like a sore thumb after I have applied a clear coat finish. If I am to edge glue planking and want a clear finish on the hull, how do I address this potential problem?
 

In full scale carpentry one solution is not to touch the squeezed out glue when still wet and remove it with a knife when at least semi-dried. I have great difficulty envisaging how I could wrangle a small model boat plank into position without my clumsy fingers spreading some of this glue around. 

 

Obviously there are several possible strategies to address this problem on a model boat, including masking off the area, pre -coating  the plank before installation and learning to apply microscopic quantities of glue to the plank edge so that nothing can possibly squeeze out. All quite labour intensive! What do the experts do?

[Dr PR]

I don't know what the experts do,  but I have a suggestion.

 

IF you are planking on a plank on bulkhead hull, and

IF  you haven't installed the deck, and

IF you are doing single layer planking

 

THEN don't sweat the edge gluing. Plank the hull and then paint/coat the inside of the planking with thin epoxy - epoxy paint. It will soak into the wood of the planking and bulkheads, and between the planks. It makes a very solid hull and the planks will never open up with gaps between the planks. At least it hasn't in hulls I built over 35 years ago.

 

After the epoxy has hardened you can finish the hull with sanding.

[Dziadeczek]

I place a drop of PVA white glue, or Titebond glue on top of my index finger and run the edge of a plank along it, making sure it gets just barely enough glue on its entire length. Any excess can be wiped off, if necessary, by repeating the above.

If some small amount of glue still oozes out from the joint, I wipe it off with a wet rug.  Generally it is enough to be able later on to apply a layer of oil or stain. If however there are some small spots where oil/stain did not penetrate, I take an edge of a small chisel or a one sided (industrial) razor blade and carefully scrape off this area to the bare wood.

[Neil10]

These two replies got me thinking. I’m planning that my first project will need double planking because the first planking layer will look so bad that either it needs heavy filling, sanding and painting or a second planking layer to cover up all the mistakes, If I install a second planking, is it reasonable to assume that these will not need edge gluing because then there is so much glued contact area on the underside that they will never move anyway?
 

Or to put it another way, only single planked models need edge gluing (or Dr PR’s technique of internal painting) to give adequate structural strength?

[allanyed]

Neil,

Why should the first layer of planking be so bad??   There are great tutorials and tons of advice on planking here that should alleviate fear of doing a credible planking job.  For that matter, with a little practice and following these lessons here there is no need for double layers of planking given appropriate types and sizes of wood.   If you must do a double planking, the first layer could be used as a practice run.   Assume you cannot use fillers or cover ups and you will take a little more time, but will be happy in the end.  This may be a crazy thought, but here you go----> If doing two layers, for the first one you can go with spiling  or bending as shown in Chuck's very informative videos to learn the practice or maybe try one method port side and the other method starboard side on the first layer to see what works best for you. 

Allan

 

[mtaylor]

I agree with Allan.   Here's the section with all the tutorials.    Look through them, and pick the one you think will work for you.

 

https://modelshipworld.com/forum/98-planking-downloads-and-tutorials-and-videos/

[Neil10]

Thanks for your confidence in me Allan!
 

As it happens, for reasons beyond my control, I will not be able to even open the kit box (Mare Nostrum) for several more weeks. This delay has given me many hours to think about and plan almost every stage of construction and it’s why I have been asking so many questions on different MSW forums. As a result I’m slowly gaining confidence in the planking challenge. 

Most recently I viewed Chuck’s plank (edge) bending video using a travel iron. Very interesting and quite a contrast to almost everyone else talking about bending planks in the opposite plain.

 

I suspect that the kit only provides material for a single planking so will do my best with a Plan B to fall back on of going to a second planking to achieve the desired result. 

[Dziadeczek]

As far as I understand, some kits are designed for double planking, especially intended for beginners, with the idea to learn how to plank on the first layer and do the second layer properly. But, if you do the first layer properly (observing spiling and shaping of your planks) it will look beautifully, so there will be no purpose for the second layer to cover up mistakes. If however, you don't properly spill and shape the first layer, you won't learn the process and repeat it with the second layer also.  What's the point?

If you read and understand the process, you should be able to do it properly. Don't get too intimidated, the explaining it in words is harder than actually doing it.

I too was anxious before my first attempt on planking, but plunged in it, and it turned out OK.

Use a good pair of proportional dividers, or paper strip technique, be precise in measurements, check everything twice before cutting and glueing and you should be fine!

I too recommend reading those tutorials here, but perhaps also a brochure "Planking the build up ship models" by the late Jim Roberts.  In fact, I learnt the process based on this brochure, before the time the above mentioned tutorials first appeared on the MSW website.

[Bob Cleek]

I can't imagine why anyone would have any need to edge-glue planking at all. It adds nothing structurally and creates a lot of messy work. Properly spiled and bent plank should easily lay fair on the frames or bulkheads and glue at the faying surfaces between the frame or bulkhead and plank face should be more than adequate. A plank which has to be forced into place isn't done right. Do watch Chuck's videos to learn how it's done correctly. You'll be glad you did.

[mtaylor]

One a POB, the spacing of the bulkheads can be a problem when planking depending on how far apart the bulkheads are.   Filling in between bulkheads will solve this issue.   With a POF, it's not a problem as the frames are fairly close to each other.

[Bob Cleek]

10 hours ago, DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:

Because under different moisture conditions, wood warps, shrinks, or swells.  It may be laid down with the proper shape when new, but if you want it to stay in position long term, they should be glued.  Thin wood is particularly susceptible to this.  Over time, having the planks anchored to each other will prevent cracks from appearing on the hull as it ages, with offsets of the plank edges appearing.  If the planks are glued to each other, all stresses are shared by adjacent planks and the movement is also shared.

 

Your mileage obviously varies. In my experience, properly seasoned and heat-bent wood will stay where it is put within normal ambient humidity variations. Those variations are also greatly dependent upon the species of wood involved. (Museums are full of old models that are proof of this.) As a matter of science, the smaller the piece of wood, the less it tends to shrink and swell with changes in moisture content. It is absolutely true that in single-layer monocoque wooden hull construction "If the planks are glued to each other, all stresses are shared by adjacent planks and the movement is also shared." From an engineering standpoint, however, those shared stresses will always need to go somewhere. When movement, as contrasted with stresses, is evenly distributed throughout the structure, such as a wooden hull, the movement is often imperceptible, being relative to the entire structure. The inherent flexibility of most paints and varnishes will accommodate this distributed movement rather well. Even in the extreme environment to which a real wooden vessel is exposed, a good quality paint job over a quality built planked hull will not "show her seams" for a good long while. A model which is properly cared for has no problem at all in this regard. On the other hand, when movement is consolidated by gluing all the parts together, the stresses, will "seek the path of least resistance" and the "weakest link" principle comes into play. Where the glue is stronger than the wood itself, which is the case with many modern adhesives, this can result not simply in one big glue-line failure, but in the actual splitting of a piece itself. This problem is endemic in "strip planked" full size hulls, which is why that construction method places so much emphasis upon resin sheathing to isolate the wood structure from moisture. 

 

By the same token, the stresses from movement of the wood structure when a model is built of properly seasoned and bent wood of a suitable species and property exhibited and stored should be insufficient to cause any significant damage to the model, so there's no great harm likely to be done by edge-gluing planks if one is so inclined and not bothered by the inherent drawbacks of the process. If you want to do it your way, go for it and good luck! 

[turangi]

I edge glued the planks on my last model and tried to be careful not to use excessive glue. I then used, and highly recommend using a cabinet scraper for the initial removal of excess glue and unevenness in the planking followed by sanding. My caveat is that I painted the hull and did not leave it natural so I have no idea how my efforts would have turned out using stain. Cabinet scrapers are available in many profiles and I have found them an extremely useful tool. Other areas I stain such as decks I always use a pre stain conditioner to even out stain color and use gel stains as they make it very easy to control the color.  

 

I have found that using a pre-stain wood conditioner to allow the even penetration of the stain really helps. I also use the Minwax gel stain and it is easy to control the color. I rub it in with like shoe polish with a cloth and it allows me to to make it as light or dark as I desire.