HMS Fly by TimC - FINISHED - Amati/Victory Models - First Time Builder

[TimC]

Hi all

 

this will be used as a log for my build of the Amati HMS Fly. I have never built a wooden ship and have only built plastic ships for about a year so most of this is very new to me, including the terms—which I will hopefully learn along the way. I will likely move very slowly because I’m nervous to make a mistake, but please offer any and all advice you have.  I’ll gladly accept it all. Forgive me in advance for my dumb questions I’m sure I’ll ask. 
 

I haven’t don’t much yet, but I started to dry fit the keel and bulkheads.  I will hopefully start the beveling process soon. 
 

—Tim

[Richard44]

Hi Tim,

 

Welcome to the Fly/Pegasus club. There are many logs on here that deal with the building of these two ships. One I would thoroughly recommend is that by Blue Ensign. Enjoy your build.

 

Cheers

[JeffT]

You picked a good subject. Have fun with the build!

[James H]

Hi Tim,

 

Firstly, welcome to MSW. Also, great to see you get this log started here. There's no such thing as dumb question. They are all valid and it's how we learn. We are all still learning in some way.

 

Off to a great start. Take your time and ask as many questions as you need. 

[TimC]

Thank you all for the warm welcome 

[robdurant]

Hi Tim,

Hope you don't mind me following along
 

Fly really is a handsome ship, and I'm sure you'll do a great job. It doesn't feel like two minutes since I built my first wooden model ship, and yet somehow six years and four models have come and gone! I couldn't have done it without the support and encouragement of the guys on this forum, so if I can pay it back at all and help you out in any way, let me know! 

 

Rob

[bruce d]

Welcome to MSW, it is a great place. It looks like you have a good start and some experienced hands looking on.

Have fun!

 

Bruce

[TimC]

13 hours ago, robdurant said:

Hi Tim,

Hope you don't mind me following along
 

Fly really is a handsome ship, and I'm sure you'll do a great job. It doesn't feel like two minutes since I built my first wooden model ship, and yet somehow six years and four models have come and gone! I couldn't have done it without the support and encouragement of the guys on this forum, so if I can pay it back at all and help you out in any way, let me know! 

 

Rob

Thank you Rob! Any and all help would be greatly appreciated 

[TimC]

Decided to use the mostly hidden areas of the lower deck to practice some planking techniques...figured if I messed up I could act like it never happened ;) 

I went with 120 mm cuts at 30 mm breaks in a 1-3-2-4 pattern with thread between the planks. I think the contrast there looks nice and I couldn’t get a decent marking with a pencil on the edges of the plank. 
 

I decided to use Zap medium CA since the pieces are so thin and won’t have stresses on them. I then applied a thin coat of matte medium on top to slightly darken the colors and apply a mild protection (not sure if this seals the wood too?).  Any objections or words of caution using CA vs wood glue?  For all hull planking I’m planning on wood glue (titebond 2) since I’ll use clips and hold them there for a bit.  
 

I think I will use the same deck pattern for the main decks as well.  I like the look of it. 
 

side note: I’m not necessarily going for full historical accuracy on this one. I want to make it visually appealing to my eye and use it more as a “learn the techniques” process 

 

thanks for looking in! 
 

Tim

[James H]

I'd go with that. It looks clean and if you're happy, then there's nothing wrong with doing that whatsoever. 👍

[Richard44]

Nice job of the planking Tim.

 

Cheers

[TimC]

Hi all,

 

Lots of pictures on this one, apologies in advance

 

I got a good bit of work done today.  Just got back from hiking in Shenandoah Valley (Appalachian Trail) the past few days with my girlfriend and our 3 pups so being up and about wasnt on the top of my to do list. 

 

Anyway, I was able to get the main deck planked, except the portions on the mid ship where the ends of the bulkheads will be removed later on.  I think it came out pretty good with just a layer of varnish on top of the raw wood--room for improvement next time though...or even on the upper decks when I do them. 

 

I dry fitted the support beams along with the upper decks fore and aft.  I used this to start getting my lines to shape the frame of the ship which seemed to work out well so far.  I then started to use the gunport strips to help with planning the beveling for the planks.  I was very unsure of how to approach this so I just went with the idea that as the plank bends around the frame, it should lay as flush as possible wherever it contacts the bulkheads--this seems to be what most videos and forums say on the matter--please correct me if I have this incorrect.  Very unnerving being the first time, but it looks pretty good holding the limewood up to it with a light bend.  I also used a piece of the deck planking to check the flush-ness of the fit since that bends much more easily.  Getting the limewood to bend will be an experience I'm sure. 

 

I have not attached the stern counter patterns yet.  From placing the rear upper deck, if I were to glue them in line with the pre-cut rear bulkhead, it would extend laterally out past the end of the rear upper deck.  I angled the attachment sites of both pieces to allow a flush fit against the pattern of the rear upper deck---I think that was the right move. 

 

I spent a decent amount of time trying to figure how much to bevel the stern portion to make planking easier for me there...everything I see on here is that you need to take more off than you'd think to avoid a massive bend.  I'm happy with it right now, but i guess i can take more off as I go.  I still have to taper the rear portion of the keel (deadwood??) to accept the width of the planking against the rudder.  I assume I should have done this earlier, but here we are! 🙃

 

Thanks for reading this novel, the sequel will be out shortly

Tim

 

 

[Richard44]

Tim, you're doing really well. Your positioning of the rear patterns looks to be spot on. It's hard to tell from the photo, but I think you may have to bevel the last two bulkheads (at the stern) even more. Limewood bends fairly easily if you soak it for a while.

 

Cheers

[TimC]

Thank you Richard and Spyglass! The reassurance is very helpful that I’m on the right path.  I’ll get going with more beveling on the rear portion...I was hesitant to take too much off. 
 

im hopeful to soak the gunports tomorrow and get them fitted properly so I can start planking this weekend if I have the time.   Very nervous for that!  If you have any helpful tips about lining the hull or figuring out plank tapers I’d be very grateful!  I have a bunch of references but more can never hurt 

 

Have a great night!

[starlight]

Hi Tim,

 

Your build is looking quite good! Seems like you've been making fast progress.

 

I also started the Amati Fly kit a few months ago as my first ever model and have been slowly muddling through it. I'll be sure to keep an eye on your build log. Feel free to reach out - maybe we can help each other through this kit.

 

-starlight

[TimC]

31 minutes ago, starlight said:

Hi Tim,

 

Your build is looking quite good! Seems like you've been making fast progress.

 

I also started the Amati Fly kit a few months ago as my first ever model and have been slowly muddling through it. I'll be sure to keep an eye on your build log. Feel free to reach out - maybe we can help each other through this kit.

 

-starlight

Thank you starlight! Great to have another beginner on here. I would love to discuss things together as we go forward. I’ll be checking your build out as soon as I reply to this as well so that I can follow along 

 

tim

[TimC]

5 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Though I am a bit obssessive about it - the gunport strips can be made to be a very good fit on Fly and Pegasus but it usually needs several  "shaping passes" .

As to first planking Fly and Peggy are actually one of the easier  ones the strips - run naturally and an easy tapering forrard  deal with most issues - I cant remember what ratio I normaly used - but I think I started around BH 5 or 6 and came down to about from 5mm to 3mm on average. And the stern has a very easy  "flattish " counter

Its a shame there were some excellent detailed logs which got lost in "The Big Crash " here is a few pic i dont think I have put on the site to illustrate

Damn that looks very good.  I’m hopeful I can come close to that on this 

[TimC]

Hi all,

 

I did a first try on the gunport strips.  Any issues that you can see that I should correct?  My measurements show that I'm level across and equidistant between BHs and the gunports.  I had to remove a bit from the front end of the strips to allow the jigsaw to sit around BH 9...this allowed the rear portion to sit fllush with the end of the rear upper deck, but now I will have to reshape the hole for the bowsprite. 

 

I also used some of the kit cannons to judge gunport positions relative to the deck and they seem good to my naked eye.  I think I will buy the upgrade set though for the better cannons.

  

 

I feel pretty decent about it for a first shot, but i will likely re-soak and shape a few times to make sure I get the subtleties of the BH curves before I finalize anything.  Please feel free to leave any constructive criticism for me to improve upon!

 

Thanks for looking in

Tim

[TimC]

Thanks for the encouragement spyglass I appreciate it

 

A better fitting showed that my jigsaw is sitting just to the rear of BH 9 and it terminates in a good spot on the stern to my eyeballing it

 

hoping my 3rd soak and set holds tonight and I can play around with gluing it tomorrow afternoon once I’m done seeing patients. For now off to bed

 

tim 

[DanielD]

Looking good, keep up the great build.

[TimC]

She ain’t perfect but I think she’ll float! 
 

on to planning out the planking 

 

so far I’m pretty happy with it, hasn’t been the easiest, but I’m definitely learning the process. It’s super satisfying to see the progress :) 

[mugje]

Great start Tim with this beautiful ship!

[robdurant]

8 hours ago, TimC said:

It’s super satisfying to see the progress

And with that tricky step done, that feeling of satisfaction should only grow as you progress! Great start, Tim. She'll do her captain proud.

[Bossman]

Looking good Tim!

[TimC]

ok so I have started the portion of this that has me the most nervous..planking.  I have read a lot of information on here and watched a lot of videos, but I feel as if i only loosely understand it.  I am not a math inclined person, which makes me more anxious....i am a muscle, joint, and ligaments guy in my real life.  Anyway, i have dry-fit the first 2 planks under the gunport strips without needing any taper since they lay smoothly without needing to force anything unnatural.  I would assume the tapering begins where i would need to unnaturally force or bend the planks to fit in an area.  THe ones i have fit look symmetrical to my eye and seem to lay nicely, so im not sure if I should have tapered them at all just because the numbers say to?

 

Ill use BH 6 as my reference here:  I took measurements of the length under the gunport strips to the upper edge of the keel prior to my dry fit and noted roughly 93mm.  With the kit supplied 5mm plank that equals roughly 18.6 planks.  Now, to get the planks at the other BHs, I would take this # of planks and use the distances of the other BH measures to determine those plank widths at each section.  For instance, if my BH 1 measures 56mm, that would be 56/18.6= 3.01 width to fit 18.6 planks, yes?

 

Now, since i laid the first 2 planks without taper, should I redo the measures starting under those planks? or should i have tapered the top edges of those planks originally? 

 

Best,

Tim

[TimC]

9 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

 

First can I say that Fly/Pegasus is a joy to plank compared to many - the keel is parallel to the water line for a start

This is the first layer you only seek to end up with a nicely smooth flowing base for the second layer.

Its the ideal practice ground for planking the second layer   I do as you seem to be doing  prebend and dry fit.

 

 But have a look at Mugjes Pegasus log Mugjes PEGASUS  ( I presume you have twigged that Fly and Pegasus are virtually identical hull wise?)

 nice bit of planking with some good pics - you can see not too much complicated tapering needed.

 On all (and  its quite a few F/P builds) i ran two  or three full width top strips. - concentrating on two things  - getting the smoothest  join possible to the gunport strips and getting a nice "turn" on the curve of the counter. Chamfering there helps.

 Then i must admit to what may be heterical practice - took lots of strips - and reduced them with a straight cut to around 60% from BH 5/ 6 or thereabouts - off build.

Then  curved and dry fitted them ( i always chamfer one edge though) you  just shuffle some or the whole whole set  a bit forward or back  to fill and a bit of sanding as you chanmfer to get a nice fit to the next. So you get a neat matched set of tapers, The stern just falls nicely but needs a few stealers. 

I think though " ticking" has its place for really top class work and always on single layer build.

You will notice i have a removeable stem post  with just a few scrap pieces to mark the edge of the slot - easier to sand.

Also that  the gunport strips are NOT short , I - er -over trimmed the gunport strips bit !

 

Thank you for the advise Spyglass!  I think that i am over-thinking and worrying a bit too much on this instead of just feeling it out and trusting the process.  

 

Have a great day!

[Richard44]

Hi Tim,

 

Just to add a couple of things to what Spyglass has said.

 

I've nearly finished my first planking, and I've done what you are planning to do. One difference is that I fastened the garbord strake (the one against the keel) and the one immediately under the gunport patterns in place first.  Then I measured and subdivided and used tick strips, several of them.  The garbord strake needs a good deal of twisting and definitely needs soaking. Do not let this rise too much at the bow otherwise you will have problems later with the subsequent planks.

 

I added strakes from top and bottom and after every couple or so, I remeasured and adjusted the amount of taper if necessary. I over tapered the planks towards the bow and I'll need to insert a triangular stealer.  Stealers are common at the stern so don't worry when your strakes won't fit neatly against one another - let them run smoothly. 

 

Spyglass doesn't use one, but I use an Amati hand crimper to put the curve into planks, though I also soak and clamp if I think this will be better.

 

One thing to note is that the limewood  strips (mine anyway) are a whisker wider than 5mm. It's not much but it's cumulative.

 

Cheers

 

[mugje]

That's certainly a good tip of Richard44 to place the garboard strake also in advance. First thing to say is...don't overthink indeed. Especially with your first ship. I didn't understand that whole planking process neither with my first ship that I build. It's important that you get an understanding how the planks are behaving etc. So a lot on feel works fine in the beginning. 

 

That being said...if you want to use the numbers and math I found that Chuck Passaro has the most clear explanation to me about planking.

http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/Lining Off your hull for planking.pdf

 

 

And the video's of the side bending process are also quite helpful! That made a lot of difference to me.

 

[glbarlow]

I had a very detailed Pegasus log that was lost in the great crash.  Pegasus is my favorite build, in fact that’s it in my little signature bubble. I highly recommend you do two things, review and learn Chucks method of lining the hull and planking from the link Mugje provided and locate Blue Ensigns Pegasus build log since mine was lost).  I converted to Chuck’s  method and in my opinion there is no better way to learn how to plank a ship.  Both my Nelson and Cheerful logs linked i. My signature line describe how I put it to work. 

Measurements and tapering planks are an essential part of planking, but every hull even of the same model are different.  Chuck’s  method ensure the measurements you get are for your hull, not what someone else got.  The most important recommendation I have is not to overthink it and not get lost in details and too many sources of advice and tutorials. Pick one that works for you and make sawdust. 
 

Have fun!

Edited November 3, 2020 by glbarlow

[TimC]

All,

 

I cannot thank you enough for all of the encouragement and advice!!  I will definitely be looking at Chucks videos, since it seems that there is a lot of praise there...plus a quick glance looks like his method of teaching fits my style of learning

 

2 hours ago, glbarlow said:

The most important recommendation I have is not to overthink it and not get lost in details and too many sources of advice and tutorials

I think you hit the nail on the head with this glbarlow...i have been getting lost in so many logs that I was giving myself anxiety trying to put it all into one streamlined approach.

 

Hopefully ill be able to start lining the ship tonight or tomorrow and have something decent to show soon

 

For now, back to work for me

 

Best,

Tim