Jaager Posted October 26, 2020 Share #1 Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) An email add came in from ANCRE yesterday. I have no French, so I can only guess about them. The subject seems to focus on the fleet of Louis XVI that was involved in the battle at the Chesapeake Capes that allowed for the successful siege at Yorktown. The text is French only, so I will wait for an English translation. There also seen to be a set of what I guess are lines plans at 1/72 or smaller for many of the vessels of the French fleet. I tried to use the main site to translate, but the new product is not there yet. My CC company added a new step with a password that I have no clue about - so my purchase failed. I have to wait for PayPal to do a transfer ( with these ridiculously now interest rates, what is the point in PP taking a week to transfer funds? ) ( I neither have nor want the capability for text on a phone - but banks are seeming to act like EVERYBODY has active phone texting. ) I am really interested in seeing if this new set is really lines plans for a whole French fleet. For one, the City of Paris is potentially a big deal here - being just down the road from Cape Henry. Edited November 16, 2020 by Jaager Elia, flying_dutchman2, uss frolick and 5 others 8 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEDDO Posted October 28, 2020 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2020 Nice! You can always copy/paste into google translate to see what they are saying mtaylor 1 Quote Michael Shipwrights of Ohio Current Build: ... Completed Builds: Queen Anne Barge - Syren, Pinnace - MS, Halifax 1768 - LSS, Murrelet - Pygmy, Swift 1805 - AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, MEDDO said: You can always copy/paste into google translate to see what they are saying I did. That is how I obtained the information that I posted. I have the hope that someone with more knowledge will jump in an expand on this. The postage on the plans is significant. There seems to be some weight and volume there. I am willing to take the gamble that they are what I think they are. MEDDO and mtaylor 2 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkay11 Posted October 28, 2020 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2020 The most important parts of the blurb on the Ancre site are: " This work of 480 pages hopes to reunite the history and construction of naval vessels while studying the important naval strategies and tactics. The second part is a maritime biography of the vessels and frigates which took part in this conflict while also publishing the original documents as far as possible. "20 frigates and 35 vessels have particular attention paid to them, thus allowing a refreshing look at traditional maritime history. "First part: Ch 1: French naviy at the end of the reign of Louis XV Ch 2: Sartine and the reorganisation of the navy Ch 3: Naval material Ch 4: The dockyards Ch 5: Some major construction engineers Ch 6: Sartine and the planning of the war: the ships Ch 7: Sartine and the planning of the war: the personnel Ch 8: How the war unfolded: 1775-1778 Ch 9: French Naval strategy Ch 20: The naval battles "Second Part: 110-gun, 80-gun, 74-gun ships as well as those with 70, 64 and 50 guns 12-gun and 8-gun frigates "Box of plans sold separately or as optional extra: @ 1:72 in a cloth bound box (€94, or €175 with first part) 3 ships and 1 frigate with sail plans @ 1:144 2 110-gun ships, 3 80-gun ships and 11 74-gun ships 1 70-gun ship, 10 64-gun ships, 2 50-gun ships 10 12-gun frigates and 5 8-gun frigates." Also in the newsletter are details of are sets of plans sold separately for La Renomeé 1:36, La Salamandre 1:36, L'Ambitieux 1:36, L'Amarante at 1:24 I hope this helps Tony Michel L., MEDDO and mtaylor 3 Quote === First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED 2nd build: Triton cross-section COMPLETED 3rd build: La Chaloupe Armée / 42ft Armed Longboat of 1834 by tkay11 – scale 1:36, plans by M. Delacroix COMPLETED 4th build: Allège d’Arles 1833 (Ancre) POB by tkay11 – scale 1:100, plans by F. Fissore COMPLETED Working on La Jacinthe 1:96 POB (ANCRE publications) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEDDO Posted October 28, 2020 Share #5 Posted October 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Jaager said: I am willing to take the gamble that they are what I think they are Every product I have seen in person from them is outstanding. I really hope someone can get a hold of this and do a proper review of it mtaylor and Landlubber Mike 2 Quote Michael Shipwrights of Ohio Current Build: ... Completed Builds: Queen Anne Barge - Syren, Pinnace - MS, Halifax 1768 - LSS, Murrelet - Pygmy, Swift 1805 - AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapman Posted October 28, 2020 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2020 The book isn't really new. The first edition is from 1985, but difficult to get. I am happy about the new edition, especially about the plan edition because I already have the first edition book. Quote "Second Part: 110-gun, 80-gun, 74-gun ships as well as those with 70, 64 and 50 guns 12-gun and 8-gun frigates This part goes into the history of individual ships in detail. Such as the sister ship of the Hermione, the La Concorde. I think it's very interesting. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted November 2, 2020 Well, PP completed the transfer of funds, so I made the purchase of the box of plans. Today, I was notified that the box has been shipped. I paid for the higher level shipping. It should not be too long before I find out if these plans fit my requirements. Canute, mtaylor and MEDDO 3 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted November 15, 2020 Update. A box with 45 plans was on my doorstep this afternoon. I have no French and have not done an on-line translation of any of the blurb on the package. I will provide a brief description of each plan when I complete my review. Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted November 15, 2020 This appears to be a snapshot of the major vessels of the French Navy from 1775-1793. It is a compilation of the official plans with the addition of a few plans from the RN archives of captured vessels. I suspect that there are more vessels that could have been included if their plans had survived. This volume is similar to ANM in how useful its direct application is for a ship modeler. I think this volume is a drafting of plans from the French Navy archives to a standard 1:72 format. These are a bit different from the plans in the RN archives in the NNM. There is less detail. They seem to focus on the interests of the naval architects. The swimming body and the run of the lines are complete. The overall appearance of the vessels for historical preservation does not seem to be of much interest. The construction details are not present. The following is my evaluation of each from the perspective of a POF scratch builder. Plan 1 - La Bretagne 1762 110 guns 1:72 Body Plan, Waterlines Plan, Profile The wales, rails, gunports, headrails , mast locations at toprail. Nothing on the stern, quarter galleries, figurehead or carvings. There is enough information to frame and plank the hull. Everything else would be generic or spec. Plan 2 - Generic 3 decker and 74 1:144 Spars, sails, rigging side view quarter galleries and side view of figurehead Plan 3 - 64 gun ship (Artsien) and 12lb frigate (Hermione) 1:144 Spars, sails, rigging both are smaller scale copies of what is in their respective individual monographs available from ANCRE Plan 4 - Le Ville de Paris 1757 100 guns Body Plan only This is the same as the information that I received from G. Delacroix when I asked about what was available for this ship. It was the flagship of Rear Admiral Francois Joseph Paul, the Comte de Grasse. Not enough information to model except to get the correct hull shape. Plan 5 - Le Duc de Bourhogne 1748 80 guns 1:72 Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile has rails, gunports, deck locations, no wales, stern, or bow Plan 6 - Le Languedoc 1762 80 guns Waterlines, Profile Plans same data as Plan 1, but no Body Plan The hull could be built using current methods. I could not frame using just this information. Plan 7 - Le Tonnant 1742 80 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 with some carving detail Plan 8 - Le Bien Aime 1767 - La Victoire 1768 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 9 - Le Bourgogne 1762 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Chapman and mtaylor 2 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted November 15, 2020 Plan 10 - Le Cesar 1767, LedEstin 1777 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 11 - Le Fendant 1772 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 12 - L'Hector 1751 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 13 - L'Intrepide 1747 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines Plan 14 - Le Neptune 1777 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 15 - Le Sceptre 1778 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 16 - Le Souverain 1755 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 17 - La Victoire 1781 74 guns Waterlines, Profile Plan Deck locations - the same status as Plan 6 Plan 18 - Le Zele 1762 74 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 19 - Le dauphin Royal 1735 70 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 mtaylor 1 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted November 15, 2020 Plan 20 - Le Caton 1770 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 21 - Le Fantasque 1756 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 22 - Le Jason 1777 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 23 - Le Lion 1749 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 24 - Le Prothee 1772 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan These are RN dockyard plans of a capture done 1781 There is more detail. The interior work sand the stern. The Body Plan has the additional technical data of English plans from this time. Overall, the plans for this ship are much more complete. Plan 25 - Le Provence 1762 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 26 - Le Brillant 1774 , Le Reflechi 1773 , Le Solitaire 1772 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 27 - Le Triton 1745 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 28 - Le Vaillant 1752 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 29 - Le Vengeur 1765 64 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1. There is interior detail. The channels and deadeyes are present. mtaylor 1 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted November 15, 2020 Plan 30 - L'Amphion 1748 50 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 31 - Le Fier 1745 50 guns Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 32 - La Charmante 1777 , La Junon 1777 12lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 but zero bow data Plan 33 - La Concorde 1783 12lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 plus stern, internal detail, channels Plan 34 - L'Engageante 1765 12lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 35 - La Magicienne 1777 12lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 plus figurehead and quarter gallery Plan 36 - La Nymphe 1780 12lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 plus stern, internal detail, channels Plan 37 - L'Oiseau 1772 12lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 plus stern, internal detail, channels These are RN dockyard plans of a capture done 1772 There is more detail. The interior works and the stern. Overall, the plans for this ship are much more complete. Plan 38 - La Renommee 1767 12lb frigate Waterlines, Profile Plans same data as Plan 1, but no Body Plan The hull could be built using current methods. I could not frame using just this information. Plan 39 - La Sultane 1765 12lb frigate Waterlines, Profile Plans same data as Plan 1, but no Body Plan Internal data, figurehead, quarter gallery The hull could be built using current methods. I could not frame using just this information. mtaylor 1 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted November 15, 2020 Plan 40 - La Surveillante 1778 12lb frigate Stern, aft profile above LWL akmost no useful information - essentially a place holder Plan 41 - L'Alcmene 1774 , L'Aimable 1776 8lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 plus internal detail, channels quarter gallery, figurehead No stern These are RN dockyard plans of a capture done 1781 There is more detail. . Plan 42 - La Danae 1763 8lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 plus internal detail, channels quarter gallery, figurehead, stern These are RN dockyard plans of a capture done 1779 There is more detail. . Plan 43 - La Gracieuse 1749 8lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 44 - La Migonne 1767 8lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 Plan 45 - La Pleyade 1754 8lb frigate Body Plan, Waterlines, Profile Plan Same data as Plan 1 mtaylor 1 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted November 15, 2020 I am not disappointed by this purchase at all. It is more of an addition to my historical archives than for a direct model application. This provides necessary but not sufficient information to model a ship from the Navy of Louis XVI. mtaylor 1 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archi Posted December 5, 2020 Share #15 Posted December 5, 2020 If suddenly someone has not seen: https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/114-la-vo ... -1693.html Quote Mare Liberum Apertum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 5, 2020 Share #16 Posted December 5, 2020 Archi, your link is broken. Can you fix it? Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapman Posted December 6, 2020 Share #17 Posted December 6, 2020 @Jaager Thank you for creating the plan list. Is very helpful. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archi Posted December 6, 2020 Share #18 Posted December 6, 2020 https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/114-la-volage-barque-longue-1693.html mtaylor 1 Quote Mare Liberum Apertum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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