HMS Winchelsea 1764 by Wyz - 1:48 scale

[wyz]

Every once in a while you get a none-too-subtle reminder you are human, and a fragile one at that.  Last night, while taking two trash can full of poplar scrap from the basement out to the garage, I did something to my lower back.  Instantly I knew I really hurt myself as the pain was intense and that I had difficulty walking, let alone walking erect.  Four ibuprofen barely cut the pain.  I went to bed in the fetal position.  When I woke this morning the pain was less, but not by much.  It was perfectly clear to me that I had really hurt myself and that this wasn't going away in a day or two.  What I also realized was that the solid hull Winchelsea I had started, which weighs a ton, was not a project I was ever going to be able to bring to fruition easily, if at all.   Maybe in my youth a project of that size and weight would have been doable, but not as a 70-year-old with a weak back.  It's asking too much.  That leaves me to make some choices.  Do I walk away from ship model building for good (it's NOT going to happen), choose a much smaller vessel to build with a solid hull (it's unlikely to happen), or build a POB Winchelsea?   While POB is not my favorite build method I'm not totally averse to it.  Lord knows I've built enough POB models in my life.  Truth be said, Chuck has put together a wonderful POB project of a beautiful ship, certainly better than any POB kit I've ever built.  Who knows, maybe I'll like it.  One other thing has been made clear to me is that, no matter what I try, I can't keep the fine wood dust from going all over the house.  Yes, the filter helps, but it's not a solution.  I was still seeing a serious saw dust problem when I was just starting to form the hull with heavy sanding.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see where this is going.... dust in every nook and cranny in my condo.  Before I can do anything I need to get my back right.

[Keithbrad80]

I’m sorry to hear about your accident Tom, Back issues are nothing to screw around with so I really hope you get better! IMO I would build the POB version, just so you don’t have to say good buy to the hobby! I hope your back gets better soon!

 

Bradley

[wyz]

Bradley, I love model building too much to stop.  Life can be cyclic.  I built a number of POB models in my youth and then switched to solid hull construction.  Is it time to return to POB?  As for my back, well, the pain certainly gets my undivided attention.  I now walk like a centenarian with gout and plantar fasciitis.

Tom

[Hubac's Historian]

I’m sorry to hear you are hurting, Tom.  Get your body right, first, of course.  It will help making decisions about ship modeling easier.  Personally, I have benefitted tremendously from a daily regimen of basic yoga and light stretching.  I have a lot of disc compression issues.  Whatever you end up doing, I look forward to seeing it.

 

P.S. while I am not part of Chuck’s build group, his model is the best and most thoughtfully prepared “kit” I have ever seen.  There is plenty of latitude, within that build, to express your individual talents and aptitudes.  ‘Just a thought, if you are considering re-framing along those lines.  I realize that I am preaching to the choir, here.

 

All the best,

Marc

Edited January 24, 2021 by Hubac's Historian

[Jorge Diaz O]

I'm sorry about what happened, I hope you can recover soon, your construction was very interesting. A hug from a distance.

[Ron Burns]

Tom, whatever you choose to do, I hope you continue to document it here. I would have liked to see your solid hull Winnie come together but after seeing your style and attention to detail, anything will be a joy to watch. Although I'm not 70 I did bugger up my back years ago. Take it slow but don't baby it too much. It would be good to know if you just pulled something or truly damaged it (I pray not). My thoughts are with you and we'll see you back at it. If you're anything like all of us here, you wont stay away

 

Ron

[wyz]

     A sincere thank-you goes out to Bradley, Marc, Jorge and Ron for your concern about my health.  My back hurts so much I broke out the crutches so that I might at least have some mobility, but most of the time I'm curled up in bed.  I've blown out discs in my lower back before and both times the pain was far worse than what I'm experiencing now.  That gives me some hope, but right now the pain is significant, and I stand bent over and leaning to my right side.

     My solid hull Winnie was almost 40 lbs.  That's really heavy for a healthy guy to pick it up, work on it in your lap and then return it to the building board over and over and over and ....  If I was working on the Tidy Bowl man's dingy I'd say that a solid hull model was still doable, but a really hefty 1:48 scale frigate is just asking for me to injure my back again.  I am happy so many builders found interest in my solid hull construction method, but its simply not viable anymore.  I'm sorry, but I've definitely decided to terminate this and any other solid hull build.  Yes, I spent money on some wood and drawings, but the real expenditure was the time I put into my Winnie.  Even that wasn't all that much.  When my health permits I'm sure I will find great enjoyment building a POB model of Winchelsea and following all of my fellow model builder's logs.  Good things are ahead.  Hopefully this is only a minor speed bump.  Today, while propped up in bed, I cut out all 27 station line hull shapes that I had printed on cart stock several weeks ago.  Once again, thanks for your support and concern.

Tom

    

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Sorry, to hear Tom. I hope you will feel better shortly. Perhaps is the Augsburger method an alternativ, if you want a more stable fundament. I think it's a shame that you have to put your project back to square one. But I think it's a good decision, not to stop modelling.

[wyz]

Thanks, Christian.  I'm an optimist and I feel confident all will be ok with my back.  It will just take some time to heal.   A lot of model builders, for one reason or another, are forced to go back to square one.  It's a HUGE club.  I know I will have lots of fun building a POB model of Winchelsea.  It's just a little different from the way I've been building the last 15 years.  Yes, I'm disappointed, but I'll get over it soon enough.  Lord knows, a POB build won't create the copious amount of wood dust of a solid hull construction.  That I won't miss!

Tom

[bruce d]

12 hours ago, wyz said:

the solid hull Winchelsea I had started, which weighs a ton, was not a project I was ever going to be able to bring to fruition easily, if at all.  

 

Remain optomistic. You are not alone. I was two years into a 5-inch gauge live steam loco build (a Sweet Pea) when Ibegan to  realise that I was having too much trouble just manhandling the rolling frame and cylinder assembly and would never be able to deal with the finished loco. I decided to think again and only after a decent interval came off the fence.

Whatever you decide, don't rush into it. Just take care of yourself and see what fits best.

Edited January 24, 2021 by bruce d

[wyz]

I appreciate your reply Bruce.   It's rotten to have the rug pulled out from under you like that, bringing this project to a full stop.  However, I am enough of a realist to see that a solid hull Winchelsea that large was biting off more than I could chew.  Who knows?  Maybe hurting my back is a blessing in disguise and that I was always meant to build Winnie POB.  This injury has forced me to look at an issue that I have been avoiding for some time, that a solid hull 1:48 scale frigate is simply too unwieldy heavy for a man of my age and condition to handle and produces an uncontrollable amount of wood dust.  It's sad to say, but youth must be served.

Tom

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Tom, 

I am new to this hobby started last year for my childhood old love of old vessels. I have also other main woodworking occupations as attempting violinmaker. in the middle of cutty sark soldering  I did something very regrettable, I repeatedly poured soldering acid on top of my hands - for a coupl of days !  resulting in killing skin cells to the point of permanent alergic reaction - so every time i touch either  glue, come to touch with sawdust etc my hands swirl red and sore for a couple of days so i have to put sepcial cream on them. I know its not back sore, just to share my shortcomings and thoughts I always have in my 40 ties since than - whether to continue working with wood. so far i manage but i have to stop after few days if it gets worse.... so i can say my dubness  during modelling  harmed me a bit to rest of my life in a way but thats life. everyone has unique story to tell. I hope your back betters and im sure you will come to right decision.  Vlad

[Matt D]

Tom, I'm sorry this happened.  I've thrown out my back a few times and it's a surprise every time.  I know how much it hurts and I hope you feel better soon.

[wyz]

Thank you, Vladimir and Matt for your concern for my health.  After several days my back is still quite painful, and it takes everything just to stand up.  I can see this is going to take a while to feel better,  Oh well, that's life.  Getting back to ship model building is what I want to do, and I've decided to build Chuck's POB model of Winchelsea.  I really do like the ship and think it would be a wonderful project to work on.

QUESTIONS:

  I have a lot of Baltic birch of all sizes and a brand-new Delta scroll saw.  Is it better to build out of Chuck's laser cut Alaskan yellow cedar or use the Baltic birch which is so much harder and stronger and then plank over with boxwood and pear wood?  Each way has its advantages and disadvantages, so I'd really like to hear what the group has to say.  What's your opinion on this?  I've never used yellow cedar before.  Is it as nice as you thought it would be?  Would you use another wood if you had a do-over?  How long did it take for those who cut out their own station line bulkheads and then give them a preliminary sanding so that they fit?  I ask these questions because, if you say that the laser cut yellow cedar is the way to go, I will make a sizeable $$$ commitment and buy everything Chuck has available to make me current.  If not, I will do a scratch build POB.  You people are far enough into your builds that you've seen what's good and bad.  Give me your honest opinion.

Tom

[Matt D]

Hi Tom.  From personal experience, save the baltic birch for something else, where fairing will not be required.  It's a little like trying to sand granite or case hardened steel.  If you read my log, you'll see that my first attempt was with baltic birch.  That set is now hung up in my shop as a decoration because my printer defaulted to "fit to page" instead of "full size" and I had a 0.95 scaling factor on the prints.  That's a different problem, but I could already see that fairing that set was going to be impossible.  My second and current attempt is with the cheapo "birch plywood" from Home Depot.  It's much softer than Baltic Birch.  However, I've said several times in my log that cutting my own has been the source of most of my build problems.  If I had it to do over, I'd shell out the dough and buy Chuck's laser cut set.  If you're really good on the saw, have plenty of time to put into make sure everything is right, and double-check your final contours on each bulkhead, then that might be a good solution for you.  But if you can spend the money easier than spending the time, then buy the laser cut set from Chuck.  Just my 2 cents.

[wyz]

Thanks Matt.  That's the kind of feedback I'm looking for.

Tom

[scrubbyj427]

Definitely buy the entire laser cut package and save yourself the trouble. Alaskan yellow cedar is a wonderful wood that sands like a dream, holds a wonderful sharp edge and looks very uniform with very little grain showing.

[wyz]

That's good input JJ, just what I want to hear.  Thanks.

Tom

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

2 hours ago, scrubbyj427 said:

Definitely buy the entire laser cut package and save yourself the trouble. Alaskan yellow cedar is a wonderful wood that sands like a dream, holds a wonderful sharp edge and looks very uniform with very little grain showing.

I must agree about that cedar - its quite unique in that perspective. not sure how it bends but its uniform and holds edge brilliantly. only concern I have though is scraping. Im set t ouse baswoon instead as I would probably ruin scraper before i make 10 cm shape. seems to me impossible to scrape...very stiff wood. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

4 hours ago, wyz said:

Thank you, Vladimir and Matt for your concern for my health.  After several days my back is still quite painful, and it takes everything just to stand up.  I can see this is going to take a while to feel better,  Oh well, that's life.  Getting back to ship model building is what I want to do, and I've decided to build Chuck's POB model of Winchelsea.  I really do like the ship and think it would be a wonderful project to work on.

QUESTIONS:

  I have a lot of Baltic birch of all sizes and a brand-new Delta scroll saw.  Is it better to build out of Chuck's laser cut Alaskan yellow cedar or use the Baltic birch which is so much harder and stronger and then plank over with boxwood and pear wood?  Each way has its advantages and disadvantages, so I'd really like to hear what the group has to say.  What's your opinion on this?  I've never used yellow cedar before.  Is it as nice as you thought it would be?  Would you use another wood if you had a do-over?  How long did it take for those who cut out their own station line bulkheads and then give them a preliminary sanding so that they fit?  I ask these questions because, if you say that the laser cut yellow cedar is the way to go, I will make a sizeable $$$ commitment and buy everything Chuck has available to make me current.  If not, I will do a scratch build POB.  You people are far enough into your builds that you've seen what's good and bad.  Give me your honest opinion.

Tom

im sure you will enjoy Chucks POB enormously. its almost pof.... different

 

 

[Ron Burns]

Tom, I would definitely 2nd the fact that fairing the Baltic birch is a king-size PITA! I had the bulkhead set laser cut up here to save a few dollars but I regret it now. Just for sheer accuracy and ease of sanding, go with Chuck's offering. If I do it again, I think I would go with the cherry even though the cedar works like a dream, bends easily and really holds an edge. The cedar shows up my bad workmanship a little to easily  We'll see..by the time I'm done, perhaps I will need to put in an order for more cedar to build the next one. Hope you're doing better! 

Quote

I must agree about that cedar - its quite unique in that perspective. not sure how it bends but its uniform and holds edge brilliantly. only concern I have though is scraping. Im set t ouse baswoon instead as I would probably ruin scraper before i make 10 cm shape. seems to me impossible to scrape...very stiff wood. 

Vlad, I don't think your scraper will have a difficult time with the cedar. It's such a great wood to work with and cuts almost as easily as basswood. You just wouldn't have to deal with fuzzy edges

[wyz]

Well Vladimir, yours makes three straight recommendations with no dissents.  Thank you for responding.

Tom

[RichardG]

I'm slightly confused. Aren't the pre-cut bulkheads from Chuck 1/4" ply?

 

Buying them pre-cut is easier than cutting them yourself but I think you still have to do the fairing yourself.

[wyz]

Yes Richard, Chuck's precut bulkheads are 1/4" plywood, but a softer more easily sanded plywood.  The 1/4"plywood I have is Baltic birch, a very hard and difficult to sand species of birch.  The difference between the two plywoods, when it comes to shaping the bulkheads, is night and day.

Tom

[RichardG]

Thanks, good to know.

 

So when I get round to starting this project, I'll have to remember that.

[Stuntflyer]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:39 AM, wyz said:

  I have a lot of Baltic birch of all sizes and a brand-new Delta scroll saw.  Is it better to build out of Chuck's laser cut Alaskan yellow cedar or use the Baltic birch which is so much harder and stronger and then plank over with boxwood and pear wood?  Each way has its advantages and disadvantages, so I'd really like to hear what the group has to say.  What's your opinion on this?  I've never used yellow cedar before.  Is it as nice as you thought it would be?  Would you use another wood if you had a do-over?  How long did it take for those who cut out their own station line bulkheads and then give them a preliminary sanding so that they fit?  I ask these questions because, if you say that the laser cut yellow cedar is the way to go, I will make a sizeable $$$ commitment and buy everything Chuck has available to make me current.  If not, I will do a scratch build POB.  You people are far enough into your builds that you've seen what's good and bad.  Give me your honest opinion.

Tom

Tom, I know how difficult back issues can be, so I hope that you get better very soon.

 

My two cents is this. .My boxwood built Winnie with 90% of the deck planking completed weighs a very manageable 5 lbs. Go with Alaskan yellow cedar or boxwood (if you have it). Purchase everything available for the build from Chuck. That includes the bulkheads. Make things easier on yourself, not harder. We all look forward to seeing the project as it progresses.

 

Mike

Edited January 28, 2021 by Stuntflyer

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:26 PM, Ron Burns said:

Tom, I would definitely 2nd the fact that fairing the Baltic birch is a king-size PITA! I had the bulkhead set laser cut up here to save a few dollars but I regret it now. Just for sheer accuracy and ease of sanding, go with Chuck's offering. If I do it again, I think I would go with the cherry even though the cedar works like a dream, bends easily and really holds an edge. The cedar shows up my bad workmanship a little to easily  We'll see..by the time I'm done, perhaps I will need to put in an order for more cedar to build the next one. Hope you're doing better! 

Vlad, I don't think your scraper will have a difficult time with the cedar. It's such a great wood to work with and cuts almost as easily as basswood. You just wouldn't have to deal with fuzzy edges

Ron I  should take writing slow as well as my inexperience with scraping - i realized Chuck provided boxwood for scraping. which is definitely tougher than even cedar. Well I had to elarn how to scrape along the grain. key is to have sharp one. even touching scraper firmly and pulling timber works flawlessly. there is no ugly fuzziness on that wood. so i stand corrected folks. therefore cedar must be easier than boxwood by definition   

[wyz]

Well, it's been over a month since I ruptured a disc in my back.  Is it still sore?  Oh yes, but it feels a great deal better than it was.  I told myself I would put down model ship building until my back is better.  While I'm still not where I want to be the prednisone, cyclobenzaprine, rest, and now limited exercise have helped a lot.  I'm now starting to think about how I will move forward with this Winchelsea project.  After my accident I was quite sure that building a solid hull frigate model would be way too much for someone with chronic back problems, and that I should seriously consider building a POB model of the ship.  I did just that, but the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea.  On more than one occasion I came close to placing a sizeable order to Chuck at Syren Ship Model Company, but I could never pull the trigger.  Why?  Down deep inside I knew that nothing short of a solid hull model of Winchelsea would make me happy.  The question was whether I could lighten the model enough that a solid hull build would be viable.  I came to the conclusion it was, but any changes wouldn't be on the hull I started months ago.  After my accident I was angry, frustrated and impetuous enough to trash the hull along with the Mylar lift templates and the plywood hull shaping templates.  Ooops!  My haste to throw out what I perceived to be a hull that would never be completed will absolutely prove to be costly.  I certainly made a lot of work for myself, but with my back still sore I can use the recovery time for those less physical MSB activities.... like making new templates.  It's time-consuming but easy to do.  After looking at the pictures of my first effort I think I've figured out a number of ways to reduce the model's weight.  Today I took a trip down to M.L.Condon in White Plains, New York and purchased quite a few 36"x7"x1" pieces of yellow poplar.  It's certainly enough for building Winchelsea's hull.  Who knows when I will be able to start construction of the model again?  That will depend, to a very large degree, on how the back feels.  Soon I hope.   [putting knuckles to head]  Knock on wood!

[Hubac's Historian]

Tom - I’m glad to hear that you are recovering and that your determination, resourcefulness and resilience are vying to carry the day.  Obviously - not too much too soon.

 

I am wishing you luck!

[wyz]

Thanks H's H.  You can bet the ranch I won't go too fast.  When you have the pain I had you damn sure don't want to hurt yourself again.  The templates will occupy my time for several weeks.

Tom