Vanda-Lay treenail maker

[JerryC]

Does anybody use the Royal Products treenail maker? I have Ave one and like it. They no longer produce them. I guess the demand isn’t there. I see a lot of posts here that ask “how can I fasten this to that” and I want to jump in and say “use a treenail” but, making treenail with a draw plate and some chopsticks is a task I wouldn’t wish on anyone. If there are enough people that are interested, perhaps Royal Products could be persuaded to make them. Or maybe Jim Byrnes could tackle it. It would slot in nicely with his product line. I don’t know about patents or copyright stuff that would need to be addressed.

[grsjax]

49 minutes ago, JerryC said:

Royal Products treenail maker

Could you post some pictures of the treenail maker and and explanation of how it works?

[Bob Cleek]

 

The treenail maker is mounted on the end of the Dremel motor. It's sort of a pencil sharpener kind of gizmo.  I don't believe Vanda-Lay Industries offers the treenail maker anymore. It's not listed on their website anymore.  You might give them a call and ask.  https://vanda-layindustries.com/index.html

 

 

[allanyed]

Jerry,

I believe there was little interest in that they only offered two size cutters, 0.02 and 0.03",  which are actually pretty useful sizes for 1:48 scale builds.   A draw plate such as the one from Jim Byrnes can be used for 30 different diameters from 0.017 and larger to 0.057     As to not wishing making treenails on anyone, yep it can be a tedious task.  I did a study over a few days some years back and found that I could produce about 300 bamboo trennals per hour.  With 10,000 to 12,000 in a typical hull of a fully framed model, that's 40 hours of making trennals.   Out of curiosity, how long would it take to make 12000 on the Vandalay unit based on your experience?

Thanks

Allan

[JerryC]

They currently do not offer the treenail maker, haven’t for years now. They have offered more than two sizes when they were still producing them. The cutters I have are .020, .028 and .031 I have seen a reference to an .035 also.

[JerryC]

Allen, 

 

I have no idea how to gauge the throughput. It would depend on a few variables such what constitutes a treenail, how often the thing jams, things like that.

[allanyed]

With those sizes, there-in may have been the problem getting anyone to buy these.  For a 1:96 scale those are 2 to 3.5 inch diameter treenails which are way over scale.  Still would be a good fit for 1:48 scale, not so much for 1:64.

Allan 

[vaddoc]

My last boat is held together almost exclusively by tree nails - I must have used close to 5000. Easy and inexpensive to make in bulk using needles, a drill press and a disc sander down to a diameter of 0.5 mm. Fast too. There is a thread on this somewhere on MSW

[Bob Cleek]

A cylindrical sized trunnel isn't always necessary. Cutting a "pie-shaped-sectioned" cross-grained length of soft wood of suitable size and cutting off little wedge shaped pieces parallel with the grain is often another option. Many of these little "chips" can be made very quickly. When a properly-sized little wedge is driven into a hole drilled in harder wood, the softer wedge will compress to fill the hole without deforming it. When finished flush to the surface, these are undistinguishable from a sized cylindrical trunnel.

[Gregory]

I don't do much treenailing, but a method I use for making small round parts might do the trick.

 

 

   

 

I have this set of brass collets for dremel that I use for rounding off small parts like the axels on my cannon.

 

Should be just as fast as any other method if you are making them one at a time..

[wefalck]

I looked at the Vanda-Lay contraption years ago. Essentially it is what watchmakers call a 'rose-cutter' and as I have a set going from 0.4 mm upward, there was no need for me.

 

However, it should not be too dificult to make such rose-cutters yourself. You need to drill a hole of the diameter of the tree-nail into a piece of silver-steel, file the cutting teeth (like saw teeth) and then harden it (heat to a red glow and drop into water, then temper to a straw colour). These cutting teeth should be sharpened/honed at their breath, not at the sloping back.

[Gregory]

How do you file the teeth inside a hole that is 1mm or smaller?

 

The corners on the collets  I showed are plenty sharp for turning soft wood.

[wefalck]

It's like making one side of the four segments of the collet sloping towards the next. So you file from the outside towards the middle of the hole. In fact, one could also use some thick-walled steel tube.

[allanyed]

I agree with Eberhard.  I made cutters of brass in the past much as he describes, to cut axles and such, and for hardwood like box or similar, they would not hold up for thousands of treenails without continually having to sharpen them.   Carbon steel that is hardened is the way to go.   In the end, I believe a drawplate is faster and will work with the tiny  sizes most of us need.   

 

Gregory, when you say softwood, which are you referring to?   Just curious.

 

Thanks

 

allan 

[grsjax]

hypodermic needles of various sizes are available.  Cut teeth on the edge and use it to drill through a piece of wood of the correct thickness.  as you drill one the previous one is pushed up the tube.  BTW drill into the end grain to get stronger treenails.  This method is easy but slow as you have to stop every few times to clear the needle.

Edited January 8, 2021 by grsjax

[vaddoc]

Well, with a needle and a drill press 200-300 in 15 min should be achievable. Have a look in this old thread, maybe it would work for you.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by vaddoc

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Gregory, when you say softwood, which are you referring to?   Just curious.

I have had success with bass, cherry and whatever toothpicks are made of.

I have also used boxwood and pear, but I'm not talking about thousands of pieces.  

 

When I said soft, I was thinking in terms of softer, as opposed to stuff like ebony or mahogany..

[Tolis 88]

Hello guys,

 

i am interested in buying those treenail makers. Anyone know where I can get a set of them?

 

Thanks

Tolis

[tlevine]

Try contacting Vanda-Lay.  However, unless you are building 1:48 or larger, they will be over-scale sized.

[allanyed]

Hi Tolis,

 

Welcome to MSW!!!

 

Assuming it is a ship, what ship are you building and to which scale?  

 

Allan

Edited February 25, 2022 by allanyed

[Charles Green]

FYI: Toothpicks are made of birch.  Matchsticks are made of poplar.