wefalck Posted February 10, 2021 Share #61 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Ah, OK, I wasn't aware that it is ream of uncut paper. So we have then 0.6096 m x 0.9144 m x 500 = 278.7 m^2 and 6142.5 g / 278.7 m^2 = 22.06 g/m^2. That looks more like it and is actually a quite light paper. This is actually quite helpful, as I have tried to find over here something equivalent to your paper. Yes, I have noticed that in the US they sometimes use some rather obscure units ... I can calculate in feet and inches, but when it comes to drams, gallons, fl.oz. etc. it gets complicated. There may have been several ways of attaching the reef-points, but a common way seems to have been also, to unravel the rope a bit in the middle and then to sew the three unravelled parts to the grommet on one side of the sail. Difficult reproduce on a model even at 1:48 scale though. A tight figure-of-eight-knot, distorted so that it forms a sort of crown and glued to the sail may do the job. One could even flatten the the knot by pushing a thin metal tube over it, while it is still wet, soaked with PVA glue. Didn't have the the idea with tube at the time, but tried to use tweezers here on an example in 1:87 scale: Edited February 10, 2021 by wefalck Keith Black, Gbmodeler and GuntherMT 3 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share #62 Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, wefalck said: Ah, OK, I wasn't aware that it is ream of uncut paper. So we have then 0.6096 m x 0.9144 m x 500 = 278.7 m^2 and 6142.5 g / 278.7 m^2 = 22.06 g/m^2. That looks more like it and is actually a quite light paper. This is actually quite helpful, as I have tried to find over here something equivalent to your paper. Yes, I have noticed that in the US they sometimes use some rather obscure units ... I can calculate in feet and inches, but when it comes to drams, gallons, fl.oz. etc. it gets complicated. There may have been several ways of attaching the reef-points, but a common way seems to have been also, to unravel the rope a bit in the middle and then to sew the three unravelled parts to the grommet on one side of the sail. Difficult reproduce on a model even at 1:48 scale though. A tight figure-of-eight-knot, distorted so that it forms a sort of crown and glued to the sail may do the job. One could even flatten the the knot by pushing a thin metal tube over it, while it is still wet, soaked with PVA glue. Didn't have the the idea with tube at the time, but tried to use tweezers here on an example in 1:87 scale: Excellent! Is that a botter? I want to build a botter some day... Keith Black 1 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted February 10, 2021 Share #63 Posted February 10, 2021 Yes, it's a Zuiderzee-botter from Marken: It is also on my own Web-site: http://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/models/botter/botter.html Keith Black 1 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share #64 Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, wefalck said: Yes, it's a Zuiderzee-botter from Marken: It is also on my own Web-site: http://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/models/botter/botter.html Very cool! You are a botter expert!!! When I build one, I will rely heavily on your web site info! Keith Black 1 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted February 10, 2021 Share #65 Posted February 10, 2021 A splendid build in progress.... Thank you for explaining your method of sail making in detail Kev Gbmodeler and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted February 10, 2021 Share #66 Posted February 10, 2021 You are welcome, Gbmodeller. I used to live just around the corner from them for some years and collected quite a bit of literature on them. Keith Black and Gbmodeler 2 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #67 Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) I always make a stand for my boats from inexpensive, unfinished wooden plaques. These are found at craft stores for just a few dollars each. I also like using wood beads for "posts" on the plaques. I say I like using the beads because I purchased a small bag of them (various sizes) and I think I have a life-time supply😬. The last element to my stands are wooden dowels (1/8 inch diameter) and steel piano wire (about 1mm diameter). The plaques are laminated pine and not very high quality. I'm good with that because I think a "work boat" should be displayed simply. I don't want the stand to be higher quality than the model! 🤔 Here are most of the raw materials and a penny for scale... I stain the plaque and beads with an appropriate color, and then coat them with "wipe-on" polyurethane varnish. Usually three coats of varnish does the trick. The polyurethane dries (for handling) in a few hours, so the whole process only takes a couple of days from start to finish... The beads have pre-drilled holes, so I just glue them to the wood dowel... The dowel is cut flush with the top of the pile, and the peg on the bottom is glued into a hole drilled in the plaque. After that, I drill holes down the center of the dowel, almost the full length, and insert the steel piano wire as far as it will go, finished off with some light tapping with a hammer... I drill holes through the keel of the boat to accept the piano wire. After a little adjusting with pliers to make sure the wire is straight ( to make sure the ship is straight) and viola... The ship is mounted! Edited February 11, 2021 by Gbmodeler wefalck, Moab, Siggi52 and 6 others 9 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE Posted February 11, 2021 Share #68 Posted February 11, 2021 Sails look very authentic. It really looks like they are filled with breeze. Excellent! Gbmodeler, egkb and Keith Black 3 Quote Erik K. Evens Architect and sailor Evens Architects Currently building: Brig Sloop HMS Flirt - Vanguard Models Completed: "Lady Isabella" Scottish Fishing Zulu - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE Posted February 11, 2021 Share #69 Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Having immersed myself in the history and aesthetic of the sailing drifters of Scotland for the last few months, and having studied lots of photos, I can’t help but think they must have been pretty fast boats. Long and fairly narrow, with fine, sharp bow sections, and low wetted surface, I bet they could really move with the wind on the beam. Edited February 11, 2021 by EKE Keith Black and egkb 2 Quote Erik K. Evens Architect and sailor Evens Architects Currently building: Brig Sloop HMS Flirt - Vanguard Models Completed: "Lady Isabella" Scottish Fishing Zulu - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintergreen Posted February 11, 2021 Share #70 Posted February 11, 2021 Excellent work and display! Thank you for sharing. You utilize the "less is more", which I think is very appropriate on a working craft. What's next? Keith Black 1 Quote Happy modelling! Håkan __________________________________________ Current build: Atlantica by Wintergreen Previous builds Kågen by Wintergreen Regina by Wintergreen Sea of Galilee boat, first century, sort of... Billing Boats Wasa Gallery: Kågen (Cog, kaeg) by Wintergreen - 1:30, Billing Boats Regina - 1:30, Billing Boats Dana, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #71 Posted February 11, 2021 All done! A gallery of finished images is at: https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2267-1870-scottish-fifie-by-gbmodeler/ piret, egkb, yvesvidal and 12 others 15 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #72 Posted February 11, 2021 13 hours ago, EKE said: Having immersed myself in the history and aesthetic of the sailing drifters of Scotland for the last few months, and having studied lots of photos, I can’t help but think they must have been pretty fast boats. Long and fairly narrow, with fine, sharp bow sections, and low wetted surface, I bet they could really move with the wind on the beam. I didn't see any direct quotes, but one of my books said a Fifie beat a steamer back to port. The steamer was doing 14 knots! EKE and Keith Black 2 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #73 Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Wintergreen said: Excellent work and display! Thank you for sharing. You utilize the "less is more", which I think is very appropriate on a working craft. What's next? Thanks Wintergreen! Don't know what's next. Waiting for inspiration... Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE Posted February 11, 2021 Share #74 Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gbmodeler said: I didn't see any direct quotes, but one of my books said a Fifie beat a steamer back to port. The steamer was doing 14 knots! I just found the passage you may be speaking about, in March’s “Sailing Drifters”, page 260-261. “A 60-footer, fishing in illegal waters in the Minch, was surprised by a fishery cruiser, and although the Government vessel was doing 14 knots, the lugger beat her into Stornoway”. Not surprising to read that. 60 ft. + on the waterline, and as I said, a really fair hull shape with low wetted surface. In a fair breeze and the right point-of-sail, 14+ knots is certainly quite possible. Your model is really magnificent. Beautiful job. It captures the flavor of what those boats must have been like. Edited February 11, 2021 by EKE Keith Black and wefalck 2 Quote Erik K. Evens Architect and sailor Evens Architects Currently building: Brig Sloop HMS Flirt - Vanguard Models Completed: "Lady Isabella" Scottish Fishing Zulu - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted February 11, 2021 Share #75 Posted February 11, 2021 Great model! Gbmodeler and Keith Black 2 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Hawker Hurricane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted February 11, 2021 Share #76 Posted February 11, 2021 These guys had to be fast not only to evade government steamers, but also, in the absence of refrigerated holds, to get the catch quickly to the Scottish fish-lasses for gutting, salting and barreling. A considerable proportion of the annual production was exported to the catholic countries of Portugal and Spain, who could not fulfil their own demand of fish for the many fasting-days in their calendar. Gbmodeler and Keith Black 2 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #77 Posted February 11, 2021 1 hour ago, EKE said: I just found the passage you may be speaking about, in March’s “Sailing Drifters”, page 260-261. “A 60-footer, fishing in illegal waters in the Minch, was surprised by a fishery cruiser, and although the Government vessel was doing 14 knots, the lugger beat her into Stornoway”. Not surprising to read that. 60 ft. + on the waterline, and as I said, a really fair hull shape with low wetted surface. In a fair breeze and the right point-of-sail, 14+ knots is certainly quite possible. Your model is really magnificent. Beautiful job. It captures the flavor of what those boats must have been like. Yes, that's the reference I remember! Thanks EKE👍 Keith Black 1 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted February 11, 2021 Share #78 Posted February 11, 2021 What a beautiful model, very nice detail and finish. Michael Keith Black, Gbmodeler and bruce d 3 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted February 13, 2021 Share #79 Posted February 13, 2021 Yet another outstanding portrayal of a working boat from days gone by.... A very informative and inspirational build Thank you Kev Keith Black and Gbmodeler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted February 15, 2021 Share #80 Posted February 15, 2021 A sweet looking Fifie Gb, very nicely done. 👍 B.E. Keith Black 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted February 15, 2021 Share #81 Posted February 15, 2021 Very nice clinkering of the hull !! Nils Keith Black 1 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share #82 Posted February 15, 2021 12 hours ago, Mirabell61 said: Very nice clinkering of the hull !! Nils Thanks! Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moab Posted March 6, 2021 Share #83 Posted March 6, 2021 A wonderful looking boat. The description of making the sails was VERY helpful. Not sure if I’m being redundant but I came across an excellent documentary on youtube about the fifie The series is “The boats that made Britain” or something close to that title. My apologies if this has been mentioned previously...Moab Keith Black and Gbmodeler 2 Quote Completed Builds: Virginia Armed Sloop...Model Shipways Ranger...Corel Louise Steam Launch...Constructo Hansa Kogge...Dusek Yankee Hero...BlueJacket Spray...BlueJacket 26’ Long Boat...Model Shipways Under Construction: Emma C. Berry...Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbmodeler Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share #84 Posted March 6, 2021 11 hours ago, Moab said: A wonderful looking boat. The description of making the sails was VERY helpful. Not sure if I’m being redundant but I came across an excellent documentary on youtube about the fifie The series is “The boats that made Britain” or something close to that title. My apologies if this has been mentioned previously...Moab Thanks for the info! I think I found it: "The boats that built Britain - The Reaper" Moab and Keith Black 2 Quote COMPLETED: Amistad Schooner, 1839, 1:96 Scale Zephyr Steam Boat, Puget Sound, Late 1800s, 1:96 Scale Chinese Junk (Fictional), 1:96 Scale Light Vessel 114, Fire Island, 1930, 1:93 Scale Bretagne, 1908 French Fishing Sloop, 1:48 Scale Barco Catalan, Late 1800s Spanish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Brazzera, 1908 Italian Boat for Fishing and Cabotage, 1:48 Scale Galway Hooker, Late 1800s Irish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Fifie, 1870 Scottish Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale Misainier, 1906 French Fishing Boat, 1:48 Scale U.S. Mine Sweeping Boat MSB-6, 1952, 1:96 Scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanasis Posted March 8, 2021 Share #85 Posted March 8, 2021 Another beautiful model of yours. If I can guess, it seems like you have the whole picture in your mind and you proceed in an artistic presentation like a painter in a canvas. Congratulation. Thx Gbmodeler and Keith Black 2 Quote https://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php/el/ There are no bad or good model makers. There are only less or more experienced. In gallery Tsernikoperama - Trechandiri Brachera - Bombarda Sabatiera -Tserniki vessel rigged as Penna - NE Aegean Sea Tserniki -Tserniki of Mykonos Island -Tserniki of Mytilene Island -Trechandiri-schooner rigging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandpaPhil Posted July 8, 2021 Share #86 Posted July 8, 2021 Congratulations! Well done! Gbmodeler and Keith Black 2 Quote Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans) 1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships) On the building slip: 1:72 French Ironclad Magenta (original shipyard plans) On hold: 1:98 Mantua HMS Victory (kit bash), 1:96 Shipyard HMS Mercury Favorite finished builds: 1:60 Sampang Good Fortune (Amati plans), 1:200 Orel Ironclad Solferino, 1:72 Schooner Hannah (Hahn plans), 1:72 Privateer Prince de Neufchatel (Chapelle plans), Model Shipways Sultana, Heller La Reale, Encore USS Olympia Goal: Become better than I was yesterday "The hardest part is deciding to try." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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