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Tiller length on 1850 schooner


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Again, the deck-layout would be helpful. And an idea, based on the opening for the rudder in the transom, what angle the rudder could/should cover - the longer the tiller, obviously the smaller the angle can be for given width of deck.

 

It may be also useful to trawl the Net for images of (old) models (not modern interpretation) of similar vessels and drawings.

Edited by wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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Is this your model ?

 

The tiller looks a bit short. In order to work it, one would have to stand on/walk over the hatch. This is not unusual to have to walk over obstacles, but having to stand on the hatch most of the time would be somewhat inconvenient.

 

There are two typical ways in which the rudder is connected: either there is a mortice in the rudder head and the tiller has a tennon, or the other way around.

 

The end of the tiller end should be at about hip height, so often tillers are curved somewhat, to bring the end to that height.

 

BTW, the box with the bell on it, is it facing the right way around ? I gather this is the binnacle stand that should open towards the helmsman.

 

And, the stern davits look a bit too much forward; I think they should protrude further to allow the dinghy to be properly suspended.

Edited by wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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Yes, it is my model.

Here is a picture of the layout which shows deck elements. 

The right side of the binnacle is made of transparent material, certainly for compass reading, in which case, you are right, the binnacle furniture is not in the right direction. But it is glued on the deck...

One more Mantua mistake that I had not detected (it is my first ship model...). 

Concerning the davits, I have also respected the Mantua layout...

Plan 01.JPG

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In principle, it makes sense to have the binnacle windows facing forward, because this protects them from following seas. In this position, however, one would need to have two people to steer the boat, one at the helm and another reading the compass and giving directions to the helms-man.

 

As to the davits: perhaps the dinghy was meant to be stowed hauled clause to the davits, rather than being suspended under them.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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Are you going to change the tiller ? I suppose you can unhinge the  rudder ?

 

The drawing of the kit shows the version of the rudder with a tenon at the head. You take the rudder and file such a tenon with a shoulder. Then you take a piece of wood about three times as wide as the rudder tenon and as thick as the tiller needs to be. Drill a hole for the tenon and file it rectangular, so that it fits precisely over the tenon. Then you can shape its outside of the tiller.

 

It helps to make yourself a sketch of the rudder with the tenon and the shoulder so that you get the angles right - if you don't put a curvature into the tiller, the angle must be such that the end of the tiller is about 2 cm (= 1 m in 1:50 scale) above the deck.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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In fact, I have already modified the tiller. Initially, the end of the tiller was 8 mm above the deck. I have cut and made longer the top part of the rudder so that now the end of the tiller is 16 mm above the deck. I consider this value to be acceptable (not far from 20 mm...).

 

I wonder if the hole in the deck, around the rudder, must be or not be closed in a "wood box". In the real world, sea water could penetrate by this way.

 

Mike 

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Normally, the hole is not covered in this kind of arrangement, particularly, when the tiller is on the upper deck. In bad weather you have a lot of water on the deck anyway.

 

However, the hole appears to be rather large. It needs to be just big enough to allow the full movement of the rudder stem.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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I thank you for these advices.

 

Concerning an other subject, I was used to purchase ship model supplies in Great Britain. I have noticed that since Brexit application, delivery times are no longer acceptable. May I know where you buy your ship model stuff in Europe ?

 

I am not sure that this question should be at the forum right place....

Mike

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Are you French ?

 

Well, I not normally buy supplies in model stores (anymore), for two reasons:

 

- in many cases these are ordinary materials sold there at elevated prices

 

- I don't buy parts, but make them myself.

 

The last model shop in Paris that I was aware of and that had materials for ship models closed a couple of years or so ago. Certain woods, metals, paper and plastics you can get from BHV or from Rogier & Plé (the art materials dealers). For metals there is also Metaux Tartaix in the 4th Arr. Otherwise you may have to mail order.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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This looks like the Mantua Albatros kit. I am building one of these. The binnacle is definitely backwards! It isn't the only problem with the Mantua drawings!

 

The tiller should probably extend to a small clearance between it and the binnacle. 10 cm or so.

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

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Well, I am actually an expat from Germany, but my wife is French ;)

 

On a ship like that the helmsman would standing besides the tiller, not in front of it, as you may do on small sailing boat, in order to be able to steady the tiller with the whole body weight. So I would think that the tiller should be a tad longer than drawin on the plans, but not so long that it would touch the bulwark, when put over hard.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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