Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Great work Alistair. I'm all in favour of details that won't be seen - I completely outfitted the cabins on my build of the Mamoli Gretel and now you have to shine a flashlight into the windows to catch even the faintest glimpse - but there are photos to show the work and as Michael said you'll know they're there and get great satisfaction out of that knowledge

hamilton

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your work is so good that you should do all the detail you want.

You need to get one of those scopes that doctors use for their internal gastric examinations.  That way your work will not go unseen.

Cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Michael, Geoff, Martin, Hamilton and Ken for your generous comments. Thanks for the "Likes" too.

 

Ken - having being subjected to those exams I might avoid using the instruments required... :o

 

A few little fiddles to come and then on with the foredeck. Means I have to fix a truck load of stuff down - a bit scary but you just have to. More pictures very soon.

 

Thanks again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Neat job on the manger boards Alistair. You can see quite a bit thro' the Bridle ports, try sticking your phone camera to the port, I was quite surprised when I did it :)

 

Are you going to  use the long legs of the aft fore bitts they do rather spoil the practicality of using the Oven, I modified the deck to get around this.

 

B.E.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi B.E.

I understand your modifications but no, I'm just going to run those bitt pins straight through into the lower deck. I plan to have closed bridle ports so this inaccuracy will not be able to be seen without surgical equipment :D. It is already remarkable with test fits of the deck how little can be seen underneath it. A nice oven I might have made but it is soon to be consigned to the history of photos of it...However I'm completely modifying the pins and their knees where they appear above the upper deck. Like you, I have to put the bitt aft of the aft pins rather than fore of them which slightly annoys. I can't see any way around that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

Here is all the sub deck parts fixed in place. Added deck cants for the bulkheads but may have set these too far forward. Never mind. Decided there was no need for forward coils on the cannon rig as they just can't be seen. Next on are the beams and then the upper deck. I sort of say goodbye to my stove with this post - only the aft end will be really visible from now on :(.

post-259-0-20812700-1405149805_thumb.jpg

post-259-0-60016100-1405149817_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks B.E, Your appreciation is very special to me.

 

I was surprised to find in the FFM that the riding bitt was removable - held in place by hooks. It is very big piece of kit which is evident even in the model. I guess when the ship was not anchored it was taken away? Therefore if we show the ship with stowed anchors the bitt shouldn't be in place? Or have I got this all around the wrong way...? Whatever, my riding bitt is fixed for the journey, stowed anchors or not - there is no way it is coming off!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Alistair

 

Excellentiest, excellentestest, excellentiting…I give up. :im Not Worthy:

 

Anybody out there knows any suitable superlatives???

 

Perhaps you could reconsider your decision to close the bridle ports – it really would be a shame to hide all those details and on the other hand it could look a tiny trifle little bit ridiculous looking at ship models with sophisticated and expensive surgical equipment not to mention the expected pointy remarks of the admiralty or previous close encounters with said equipment.

Keep up the good work.

 

Cheers

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really impressed with your stove and the rest of the detail below decks.  If there is a port that can be opened, then I agree you should open it. 

I was really thinking of a camera attachment rather than surgical equipment.  Another idea is a small reading type light with a small dentist's mirror.

Just some crazy thoughts.

As Peter says, your work is really beyond superlatives.

Cheers.

Edited by KenW
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your very generous comments and "Likes" especially from such a skilled group as you guys are.

 

I'm dithering on fitting the fo's'cle deck. These are the scariest moments in the build - once on never off without possible severe damage and massive back tracking. So I dry fit and stare and measure and re-fit and stare and measure and re-fit......More photos when I take the plunge and get it planked - another big challenge is doing the margin plank for which I have precious little over width wood stock. I plan on making cardboard templates for the margins as a cutting guide and will need at least two scarphed joints per side to get around the curve as my over width stock isn't very much over width! I will also taper and hood the deck planking. To divert my hesitancy I'm working on the cowl for the stove with a baffle and handles. These bits are very fiddly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha - I have infected you with my indecision virus!!  Sorry

 

I can only offer your own excellent advice " Indecision is an enemy. Go with the flow." :D

 

 

I was just sketching out some plank layouts for my upper decks (I really am going to have to bite that bullet soon)

I wondered why you chose to hood your planks which gets through a  lot of wide stock. (Apart from the fact the result looks so good!)

 

 

I have decided upon just joggling the ends of mine - fewer bits of complicated shapes !

post-905-0-57532300-1405253538.jpg

 

Herewith my "template shot" sorry my feet are in the way !

 

Interestingly you can just see that there are some hooded planks against the king plank top left

 

Found a bit better pic

post-905-0-33038400-1405254070_thumb.jpg

Edited by SpyGlass
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Spyglass

I'm taking my pattern from the FFM. Blue Ensign did the same. I don't have enough historical knowledge to know if the pattern you show there is a reasonable alternative for the era but I'm trusting the intense research and knowledge found in the FFM series.

 

P.S. I'm suffering from "the fear of fixing" bug rather than indecision but nonetheless - touché. :D

Edited by aliluke
Link to post
Share on other sites

The pics were just that I thoughtthe joggled pattern may make better use your wood stock.  I think you know by now that historical accuracy isnt an absolute with me.

And of course I had forgotten anyway that you had already done the QD.!!

 

 

Just a query - can anybody enlighten me as to why does this FFM have such great authority - was the author a noted historian, is it just such a complete reference book , lack of alternative sources or or..

 

I am not in any way denigrating the books and I certainly have never had reason to query anything I have seen quoted from the books but I am just intrigued why it  has become such a bible ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Spyglass

 

I'm guessing by your question that you haven't seen these books?

 

I'm not a stickler for historical accuracy either - my model already reflects that. However the authors of the series, David Antscherl and Greg Herbert, certainly are. The treatise that the Swan Class Sloop volumes presents, in incredible detail, is "my" bible as I only have a few other references. In so far as I trust their research and building quality it works for me. What is very nice about the kit is how closely it does fit with their knowledge. For instance I'm told that the QD should be 6' 3'' height above the main deck and it is. David and Greg have built extraordinary models of the fully framed Pegasus and fully rigged Sixth Rates. They have built them separately but are in accord with the detailing. I take them at their word and the worth of their research to me is that I don't have to do it myself!

 

I don't know about it being "a" bible but it does bring together all the reliable sources and combines them into what is an incredible practicum. For my take on HMS Fly the FFM is just a great reference. I would never stand up to any disagreement by a nautical historian on the basis of it because I don't know. I'm pretty sure the authors would though...

 

I guess, for me, I have a good kit and the FFM gives me away of enhancing it to my satisfaction. Be it right or wrong in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter to me at all. Second to that, the FFM is the best general reference on ships of this era that I've ever seen. While I wait for paint and glue to dry I can just plough myself into reading these volumes. As a full series they aren't cheap but they are my favourite books on ships of this era and they are well thumbed and very well looked after.

 

You may query Blue Ensign about this. He researches outside of the FFM. I might if I had time...

 

Greg Herbert is a member here - his scratch built Pegasus cross section might give you an idea of his skill and accuracy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have all four volumes but I don’t see it as a ‘bible’ simply a very good series of reference books which bring together in a very readable form information from reliable contemporary sources.
 

The last volume on Masting and Rigging is based primarily on the 1794 works of David Steel which is available online, I use it all the time, although I do have a printed version.
 

Where there are gaps in contemporary evidence the authors say so and give their reasoning for making a particular choice. Notes are also given where information is obtained from other twentieth century writers such as Lees, Lavery, and Goodwin.
 

The ffm books are popular because they cover a very attractive subject, which is available as a kit, and provide the sort of historical detail which kit bashers (me) like, not withstanding that the books were written to accompany a scratch build of a Swan.
 

Both David Antscherl and Greg Herbert have done a fine job in producing both a model and reference work on the sixth rate sloop.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an articulate account, Alistair, and I am with you all the way.  The FFM volumes contain lots of references to period sources (Steel being the most prominent), which I would say grounds their claim to historical accuracy pretty firmly.  But it's also the case the books are very well written, offering clear instructions and suggestions for building the innumerable parts in a sixth rate, and for solving key problems.  One of the major reasons I wanted to build a Fly/Pegasus was the fact of those books.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that exactly answers my question thank you gentlemen - my wording was poor (again!) - I actually do have the books and they are indeed a very good read, both in content and sheer "readability" The authors research and practical work are beyond reproach

I was just intrigued that they seemed to be sometimes given as much weight as an historical source and I wondered if I had missed something in their background or sources.

Edited by SpyGlass
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all

I guess we are all in agreement on the FFM! The sources within them will do for me. Moving on...

 

So I fixed down the forecastle deck and have made my cardboard template for the margin/waterway plank. Going to be a challenge cutting the actual timber strip. Thought I'd dry fit everything I have in the way of deck fittings to give me a sneak preview of the overall deck layout. It is much more spacious than I expected which I think is a good thing. Attached pictures.

post-259-0-85706400-1405385567_thumb.jpg

post-259-0-98773500-1405385579_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

I've changed my avatar. The new mug shot is my great, great grandfather, Thomas Brown a shipwright and sailor who came to New Zealand from the Isle of Wight in 1858. My brother discovered this photo on Sunday through my mother's cousin. He is dressed for the sea and I like his jovial look so decided he could look over my shoulder as I work.

 

I have finished the raw planking for the forecastle deck. It is still to be cleaned up and nailed. The margin planks were a challenge but came up OK. I used a cardboard template and traced that onto wide stock. I still needed two scarph joints to get around the tight bend. The apparent width of the margin will reduce when the inner bulwark plank goes on. I've decided to take the steam grating and stove cowl combination right through to the breast beam. I will gang these together within a single combing. This deviates from the kit and other sources but I think it will look good. If it doesn't I can still revert to a more conventional layout.

 

Anyway here is a picture as it is at the moment.

post-259-0-98542500-1405987204_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...