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aliluke

HMS Fly by aliluke - Amati - 1/64

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Hi Alistair:

 

That's really too bad about the keel! I've experienced minor warping before (on the Toulonnaise) and solved that problem by keeping the keel in a make-shift keel clamper throughout the framing process. I made the clamp with some 1/2" thick scrap wood used as a base board, then I clamped the keel between 2 1/4" x 3/16" scrap wood cut to just a little longer than the keel. This the warp....

 

But by the sound of things, you're dealing with a compound problem....unfortunately, I'm not sure what to suggest other than the options you've outlined...In an ideal world, a kit manufacturer worth its salt would replace such a crucial part where it is in such bad shape....not sure how Amati handle this....

hamilton

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Do you have a site where I can find different kinds of wood?

I like the look of the holly - I think I should be able to achieve the "white" lower planking look without painting by using holly.

I live in NYC, and there are no decent model shops that I know of.

 

Thanks.

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Hi Alistair. That holly looks great. What's the postage cost from hobbymill to the antipodies?

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Hi Timmo

My new order for boxwood has $US70 worth of strips (about 70 strips at 600mm long) for $US30 shipping. Jeff reckons he could nearly double the volume of strips for the same postage but I don't have any need for more strips at this point in time. Shipping certainly dampens the appeal...the cost of it went up dramatically some time last year. Maybe we should join together for future orders (send me a PM if interested)? His timber is perfect - it makes the kit stuff look like scrap wood. He also does metric or imperial sizes according to the kit you are building.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Hi

Managed to flatten my false keel by wetting, weighting and waiting. Four days later the keel is dry, flat but a little dirty for the experience. Have dry fitted the frames and marked the bearding line/rabbet for cutting before fixing the keel. With gentle sanding and filing everything fits together perfectly - a very finely cut kit. The decking area below the forward stair hatch is the kit supplied Tanganika.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Edited by aliluke

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You are NOT being over fussy. Ask for a replacement of this essential part.

 

Fly keels are always in my experience ply  -so it can possibly be corrected by soaking and weighting and I have done that with reasonable success in the past.

But its a nuisance to get a good correction and if its not right it lead to all sorts of implcations later in build. 

If you really really want to try - then flattening inside a wet plastic bag for a few days keeps the humidity up to get a better correction.

But this occurs just too often - ask for a replacement.

 

The tanganika I find not too bad but other woods are nicer and that applies to all the builds of Fly/Pegasus. 

I do like the builds which have replaced the second planking too - but that depends upon whether one is going to paint or copper and hide most of it.

Tree nailing is really a personal preference at this scale - even on a real vessel it is often hard to see it. 

I just like to see it and I concur wth your choice!

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Thanks B.E.

 

Spyglass - thanks as well. I would certainly not continue if the false keel was still warped. But it is O.K. now with slow treatment - wet, weight and wait - and I'm confident about carrying on . Being plywood it still distorts in other ways but the kit structure brings it back into line. I'm good for go and don't need the enormous hassle of appealing to the seller or Amati to replace it and send it half way around the world. I certainly know what a big mistake it would be to continue with a bowed frame.

 

I'm upgrading the decking to holly and the outer bulwarks to boxwood. I plan to paint the lower hull but all the logs here suggest copper might be good too. I'll see how I feel when I get closer to that step.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Hi Alistair,

 

I missed the launch of your Fly, great to see you back building again. I'll be following your log.

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Thanks Jim. Look forward to your updates when you get back into it.

 

Hi Spyglass - no, the little patch of planking is random, mostly just experimenting - I doubt it will even be visible. My visible deck planking will be more carefully planned but I haven't decided yet how far to take it in terms of historical accuracy.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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You will find the planking is juuuuuust visible if you are at precisely the right angle and the lighting is bright and directed just so!!

 

But if you check some of the logs ( Dannys for example) you will find that so many people do beautiful work which is subsequently totally covered - its almost heart breaking!

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Hi Spyglass

There will be work on my Fly that you can hardly see but I won't take it very far. I guess for some that the photos do the job of remembering covered over work and that to me is fine and I'm sure fine for them as well. Certainly there are massive efforts here on the aft cabins on the Fly/Pegasus builds - I won't be doing that but I respect the work of those who chose to do it. 

 

If you can spy my lower deck planking down the ladder way that is fine because it will actually be there.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Thanks Alistair. I'm a way of my next project but I'll be in touch if I'm ordering any timber offshore. Frames are looking good.

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Hi

The false deck is just dry fitted so looks popped at the centre line. This kit certainly fits together really well = the frames and false keel would almost make it dry fitted but I did add white glue. I looked long and hard at Ray's amazing deck planking for the Diana but have decided to decline that challenge. However I will do an edging plank, waterway and spirketing plank.The scarf joints for the edging plank are marked out on the false deck. These will be carbon copied and transferred to the holly for pre-cutting - it would be much more difficult with the deck in place.

 

The other aspect which challenges: The riding bits and main hatch are so close together that planking between them would be extremely hard - if not straight.out strange. VII of the TFFM carefully details the main mast partners and I think I'll try a simplified version of these. They are a complex platform above deck level that butts into the main hatch and are level with the top of the hatch coaming. This eliminates the longitudinal deck planking between all the bits, mast and pumps...I think. It will need little legs off the chain pumps to correct levels but that is how they were..I think.

 

So I'll forego the huge challenge of Ray's very accurate decking and take on the smaller one of the mast partners.

 

Before that I'll fair the hull - a job I certainly don't enjoy.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Thanks Spyglass for that link. It is extraordinary build and a goldmine of information. Will post there next.

 

I've mapped out the main deck for a simplified decking plan with butts marked in red and beam nails - a three plank shift (I think). Beam positions are mostly guessed but based on the fact that beams would not run through hatches.. The main mast partners are a good departure from the kit I think. Bulkheads 5, 6 and 7 are removed so are not relevant. Not sure I'll do all the treenails. Maybe just the butts and edges. I don't want a ship with measles Opinions welcomed!!

 

Cheers

Alistair

 

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Well personally I like a slight touch of measles - you can see my take on my log

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/420-hms-pegasus-by-spyglass-victory-models/page-2

- but on the real thing treenails are often virtually invisible.

 

I dont think you are correct on basing the beam spacing on the hatches - but easy to establish - check Dannys build!

 

You will see I planked below the hatch too!

Edited by SpyGlass

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You can start with just the butt joints and decide if you want more treenails. What is the scale of the kit, or what diameter hole will you use for the deck treenails; which are smaller than hull treenails and would be aprox 1/2 - 3/4" or 13 - 19mm actual size?

 

Ken

Edited by BareHook

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Glad to see that you've overcome the keel problem, Alistair. Given the amount of forethought you're putting in I'd say this will shape up to be a beautiful model. Looking forward as always to your progress. 

 

On my Pinky Schooner (which was at 1:25 scale) I trunnelled the whole deck and though I was at first a little wary of it, it worked out really nicely and has added a lot to the build. When the deck was bare I was shocked at how "obvious" the trunnels seemed. But once the deck houses were on and the bulwarks and other stuff they faded into the background where they can provide a really nice and subtle bit of detail.

 

Ultimately, trunnelling the whole deck will be a tedious process - but then again, I kind of feel like this whole craft is often about subordinating a feeling of near-term tedium to a vision of the project as a whole...anyway, I'm positive that the model will look great whichever way you go. Happy winter to you down there

hamilton

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Thanks guys,

Spyglass - Danny's Vulture is a great guide but I reckon his log confirms that the hatch positions confirms the position of the beam lines.

Ken - that is exactly what I'll do.

Hamilton - the trick with the holly decking is that even with the palest of wood pastes for the treenails they tend to stand out. I'll try as Ken suggested and will experiment with a neutral paste as well.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Yes - I had a look at Dannys log and my NMM set of plans and the beams do vary in spacing much more than I had thought. 

My remark was prompted actually only by the length of planking you showed beside the main hatch which seemed a bit long  compared to the others and I see that indeed that hatch extends over three beams.

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Hi

Moved along with much dust. May be too much. The hull is solid blocked from bulkhead 1 to 4 at the bow and from 9 to 13 at the stern. Probably overkill.

 

In the midst (mist) of the dust I tried out making an aft bulkhead at frame 10. This will be invisible in all likelihood but was an exercise that I enjoyed. The fit is figured out to allow for the false deck plus deck planks. In the photo it floats well below the beam but when it is installed it won't. No one will see it anyway - it is just a hidden challenge.

 

Next is to install the false deck and get on with planking.

 

Cheers

A

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When you fit the false deck, watch out for the area around the main mast. (You know, the heavily perforated area).  If I recall Spyglass (Steve) reinforced this area with framing from underneath, as it is a relatively weak area of the deck. It is ok on it's own without it.... but my fingers broke through the deck on mine when I was planking. All glued back together, of course, but in hindsight, something I could have avoided :rolleyes:

 

Nice job on the bulkhead, BTW. :)

I was going to do the forward one on mine, but decided at the last minute (after building and painting it) to avoid it, considering all my guns are run out for action, so I figured the bulkhead would have been removed in that situation...

 

Andy

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Yes Andy is right but that mainly applies to the Pegasus deck which come in rubbish ply and two pieces. You can see the mess I had on my log!

All the Fly kits I have seen have better ply and one piece decks and I have had no problem there

 

It is suggested that the  Fly one piece deck should be cut down the centre BUT I STRONGLY ADVISE NOT

Leave the Fly deck in in one piece -  why weaken a rather frail structure further -  in one piece still it flexes enough to "snap" in and out a few times for fitting.

 

The Pegasus two piece deck really does need care - most people seem to push their finger through it!!

 

 I added additional supports as Andy said and also  added a wider king plank down the centre.

Edited by SpyGlass

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Hi Alistair:

 

Amazing work. The "hidden challenge" is a nice touch - even if it will be invisible! You may recall from our LSS days that I added interior cabin features to my Gretel build - if I had been thinking, I would have at least left the companionway open - now the only way to see these details is by shining a light into the cabin windows and squinting through - even then, you can barely see them....

 

In any case - the fact that you know it's there will, I think, add some dimension to the build - of course, now we know it's there too, which will help to further bring your build to life for us. 

 

I've been meditating on the Fly/Pegasus as a future build - I can likely only afford one of them. It seems that there are advantages and disadvantages to both kits - I'm not sure if I've seen a detailed kit comparison, though one must exist here somewhere...I'll have a look - the split deck is certainly an odd feature - much like the Corel Toulonnaise which segments off a small section for the sternpost on the false keel - a real weakening of a basic structural feature that it's hard to imagine the rationale behind.....

 

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to following your progress on this one!

hamilton

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Hi

Thanks B.E., Andy, Spyglass and Hamilton

 

The warning on the deck is appreciated. I think Amati "upgraded" the Fly kit so the main false deck is already supplied cut in two halves. The instructions suggest you cut it in half to install it - so they are a bit out of sync with the kit. Partly for accuracy and partly to reinforce the area around the main mast, I made partners which are shown here loose laid on the dry fitted deck. These will sit on top of the finished decking. I will do a similar base for the capstan too.

 

Andy - I've now decided to leave off the forward bulkhead for the same reasons as you. I'm also quite happy to not have to make another one, the one made, that you won't see, did my head in...

 

Hamilton - this is a very nice kit of a very elegant ship. Mine is the Fly but I think it is almost the same as the Pegasus. I ended up buying the PE brass set for the Pegasus anyway so I could do the quarter badges in better style. If I had my time again I'd probably buy the Pegasus. Additionally you can get the 4 volumes of TFFM which are an incredible series in their own right and concentrate particularly on Pegasus. My main mast partners and the bulkhead are derived from TFFM.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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