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aliluke

HMS Fly by aliluke - Amati - 1/64

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Now that I look at more of your log, I see that the stern on the previous page is indeed not yours.

Sorry - I've been thinking a lot about sterns lately.  My Fair American has a fairly simple stern decoration, but the scroll design will have to be painted on.  I have been practicing.  The photo was taken at the US Navel Museum where the original model is located. 

post-912-0-33582900-1378841893.jpg

Edited by KenW

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WOW Alistair, I turn my back for a couple of weeks and you've made incredible progress!

 

As always, your workmanship is second to none. I'm going to have to check in more frequently.

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Hi

Spyglass - your advice is quite right as I have now found out.

 

Adeline - Yep planking starts tomorrow! I enjoy this phase as it slowly becomes a ship. I'm not an organised planker, like many here, more organic...we'll see how it goes.

 

Ken - no troubles the scroll work on FA looks very difficult to do by hand - I wouldn't like my chances.

 

Hi Jim - glad you dropped by. Yes I'm moving more quickly on this build but I'm not in a hurry, I just have more time on my hands.

 

Got the port plywood on now. It didn't go as well as the starboard side - I seem to do things better the first time around than the second. I don't know why - maybe it is a lack of worrying about what could go wrong? Also the second patterns have to align with the first which makes them harder. I'm giving myself only 5 of out 10 - the port patterns are further aft than the starboard ones - means the gun ports don't quite align across the deck and there are ripples that won't be easily massaged out. The misalignment is fractional - about 1mm - but it still irritates. Also I find the height of the gun port sills rises slightly from the stem to the stern - no idea how this comes about - the alignment with the top of the bulkheads forward and aft is spot on. These are difficult bits and I'm happy they are in the rearview mirror. Next time I'll approach them slightly differently and with more care.

 

I didn't follow the instructions which says to temporary fix the upper decks as a guide for the patterns. My worry was that I'd accidently glue the deck in place or to the patterns which could be messy - I'm using epoxy glue. A dry fit of the decks check shows that was an OK decision.

 

Some deck cleaning to be done then planking.

 

Cheers

Alistair

post-259-0-78406700-1378881919_thumb.jpg

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Just a note or two  for others doing Fly/Pegasus.

 

 Bulkheads 

4 ( break to foredeck), 

6 ( middle of visible lower deck),

8 ( break to rear deck),

9 (jigsaw joint point)and

12 (aft)

all come iito play lining up everything - particularly the gun port strips

 

and it is worthwhile at the very start making quite sure these parts are absilutelysymmetrical especially along the top and are fitted absolutely square.

 

I use 6 simply as a reference for everything  and as a level datum point for strips and decks.

 

4 and 8 give reference points to fix the main gunport strips level both side at the importsnt deck junctions - using a  suitable thickness wood piece for each position(- easier than fitting and refittig the decks)

 

The jigsaw joint I overlap only 1mm onto BH 9 and thereafter the lengths can be adjusted at stem and stern - that seems to be the best position.

Edited by SpyGlass

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Hmmm Spyglass you've lost me a bit there...

 

The struggle I had was at the stem, being getting enough curve into the pattern to fit into the rabbet. Easy on the first pattern - I CA glued to the rabbet and let the pattern unfold with epoxy glue to the aft (this was carefully checked and aligned beforehand). The second pattern has to now align across the ship but I still felt forced into using the CA then epoxy technique - no matter how much bending - wet/dry - I did I could not get the pattern to dry settle into the stem. So I clamped the pattern aft of bulkhead 2 and then CA glued it into the stem and then rolled it out with epoxy. My drift aft on the second pattern is very minor but next time I deal with ply patterns I may take another approach. My across ship misalignment is detectable only by instruments = Lego blocks and very straight bits of thick wood strips. To the naked eye it is invisible. I think it is all OK and the upper decks fit is good which is important. Overall I'm good for go on the planking and the little defects in my ply pattern set outs can be sorted out in that phase.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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I may be just stating the obvious, but I have been bending planks using a hot steam iron.  The steam works really well; even bending against the grain.  Hope I'm being helpful.

Cheers.

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Sorry - not my clearest. bit of writing  - and I forgot to set out my stem bending trick!

 

So a couple more notes  with a  pic or two.

 

This is from a Fly log which got lost in the " big crash"

 

To get the front curve the trick i use is to initially position the gunport strip about 1.5 cm FORWARD of its actual final position.

Do most of the bending at that position - the final vertical curves dont vary very much from that but it add a better curve more easily at the stem

 

This is a pic  an earlier Fly build clamped up like that - you can see the strip is forward of its position which allows lots of nice clamping for the stem curve.

post-905-0-80848000-1378911079_thumb.jpg

 

When the majority of the curvature is done I then position the strip backwards so it just leaves 1mm on bh 9 for the jigsaw and then  you can trim for the stem rabbet and recut the bowsprit hole.

 

So a pic from the front AFTER shuffling the strips back into their final position- note the overlap of the gunport strips at the stem where the strips which still need trimming.

post-905-0-92686800-1378911227_thumb.jpg

 

And a pic of the fully shaped gunport strip - you can see the front has been trimmed but the bowsprit cutout is not yet adjusted

 

post-905-0-61320800-1378911788_thumb.jpg

 

 

  and finally  my normal jigsaw joint positioned - with an added bulhead thickess for strength

post-905-0-05099200-1378911931_thumb.jpg

Edited by SpyGlass

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Just another query - are you doing "proper planking" or my method with continuous strips ??

 

I plank first layer  without fitting the walnut keel and stem -   you can get a nice curve - again by clamping around the front of the keel.

For the second layer I then fit the walnut pieces since the rabbets are most useful for holding the forrard ends of strips!

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Thanks Ken - I tend just to wet the planks and find it works fine.

 

Thanks Spyglass - I think I got pretty much the same result in terms of the fit at bulkhead 9. Since it's all epoxy glued now it isn't going change - solid as a rock. Your technique looks better than mine though. I didn't reinforce behind bh9 but the joint is very solid. I trimmed the jigsaw joint on the port side to compensate for the slight drift to the aft so that the stern pieces align.

 

My keel and stem are already fixed but the stern post is not. I thought about leaving them off but decided getting them true to the false keel was easiest to do by fixing them before the bulkheads went on. I haven't made any decisions about the second planking yet but will probably attempt accurate butting in true to scale lengths. The plank shaping won't be historically accurate though as I only have 1 width of plank.

 

Cheers

Alistair

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Yes it is easier to get the walnut keel pices alighed before assembly - but invariably i damage them when sanding the hull so it is overall a better result for me to fit later.  But i do align the pieces at a very early stage and fit temporary dowels to allow  fitting as needed. The dowels plus the bolts i mount for later stand fitting allow easy mounting as required til fixing time comes.

 

The stern post IS better left off till sanding is complete, it is almost impossible not to damage it else.

 

Oh another small tip with the Fly/Pegasus kit , the thick walnut strips for keel etc are laser cut and i have found that the laser cut is quite V shaped at times and so does NOT leave the edges square.  So the keel and stem pieces may need a touch of sanding to make them lie absolutely evenly against the main keel piece

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Oh another small tip with the Fly/Pegasus kit , the thick walnut strips for keel etc are laser cut and i have found that the laser cut is quite V shaped at times and so does NOT leave the edges square.  So the keel and stem pieces may need a touch of sanding to make them lie absolutely evenly against the main keel piece

I found with mine, I had to add a shim strip along the length of the bottom of the bulkhead former in order to line up the scarf between the stem and keel. It extended the rabbet slightly (which was no big deal as the first planks still fit snugly in the rabbet).

 

Andy

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Hi Alistair:

 

I appreciate the balancing act you're striking in getting the right relationship between the parts - and I'm sure that the results of this thinking through are going to be great - can't wait to see some more photos!

hamilton

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Hi

Thanks Hamilton. 

This is a wee update - I'm planking away in the background but to relieve that tedium I did the fore hatch ladder. Never dealt with these before and I have to say the Amati ladder kits are pretty poor. I used the supplied stringers as there was no way to make my own but threw away the treads as they are much too narrow and too thick. Replaced them with wider and thinner walnut - which is probably still too thick. Tricky little things these ladders are. I rebated the ladder head to the ledge and slightly rolled the top of the stringer. This all just dry fitted at the moment - ladder to frame and frame to deck - and a few further bits of tuning will settle it. I'm thinking that I'll leave the hatch ladders natural (I quite like the contrast between the treads and the stringers) but maybe paint the deck ladders. Not sure yet.

 

Meanwhile...back to planking...

 

Cheers

Alistair

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post-259-0-84360400-1379577298_thumb.jpg

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That's a good looking ladder. They always seem a bit over scale - my Granado ones will need reworking- but you've improved it greatly there Alistair.

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Really nice ladder and compoanionway! I thought I was going to lose my mind trying to do the 2-step ladders on AVS, I think they're just about impossible without creating some type of special fixture.

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Finished the first planking - always a nice place to get to as the rest of the work is all on finishing pieces instead of foundations. This kit is very good and instead of filling I only need to sand. Have done that for the port side (with more sanding to come) and next I'll do the starboard - already planked but awaiting the grit.

 

This is a great kit - very accurate and, for a hull so far, not difficult to make because of that accuracy. I did find a discrepancy between bulkheads 6 and 7 on the starboard side but intercepted with fairing 6 and shimming 7 - might have been that I slightly rolled those bulkheads rightwards when installing.

 

First planking done - now all fun!

 

Cheers

Alistair

post-259-0-17490900-1380105855_thumb.jpg

Edited by aliluke

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Very fine job, now for the real fun. Place the first walnut plank very carefully and you could consider to lift it up a bit at the bow, since it should make the planking easier as you continue down to the keel. Or you can start trimming the planks' width at the bow from the very beginning. 

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Just make sure your stem rabbet is clear - makes it all soooooooooooooo much easier when the end of the strip is held down !

Edited by SpyGlass

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yea I found the first planking should be run out about half way from bulk head edges - bearding line- and the keel edge. use a bit of bstrip and the stern post to get the width of the stern keel edge right - it's a real nuisance if it's took thin or too thick!

 

heres a pic from a previous Fly build showing what I mean   -before i feathered the edge of the first planks - also shows why its good to not fit the stern post before sanding - its easier to fix !!

 

post-905-0-88430600-1380183214_thumb.jpg

Edited by SpyGlass

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Hi Alistair,

 

Your ladder and companionway are really impressive, I half expect to see someone walking around below decks. Keep up the great work.

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Hi Alistair, just looked in on your build. Great build, and love your binaccle. Superb craftmanship

 

Mike

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heres a pic from a previous Fly build showing what I mean   -before i feathered the edge of the first planks - also shows why its good to not fit the stern post before sanding - its easier to fix !!

 

attachicon.gifstern thinning side.jpg

I think this is a great idea. Chuck also mentioned doing it this way and it makes sense. It is much easier to trim up the slot for the stern post than to feather the whole works. I will have remember this on my next build. Keep up the good work and fly away.

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Hi

 

Still working through the second planking - about half way there on both sides. Decided to take a break and make up one of Chuck's six pounders. The dilemma for me now is that, while it is a very precise little kit, it is slightly too small (I realise that Chuck made these specifically for the Winchelsea). My other test cannon is from Lumberyard (bought ages ago) and it is too big. I think I'll run with Chuck's cannon but worry the scale isn't quite right - the barrel is 1.5mm shorter than the TFFM suggests so overall it is about 5% undersized. Certainly it is very easy to centre it on the ports while the Lumberyard one sits too high. It is also much more accurate in all other respects and easier to build - a fine wee cannon by all accounts.

 

Hmmm...here are some pictures. First shows the Lumberyard cannon in the foreground and the Syren cannon in the background. Second is a close up of the Syren cannon.

 

Cheers

Alistair

post-259-0-89944300-1383351339_thumb.jpg

post-259-0-87475100-1383351366_thumb.jpg

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It was rather of a surprise for me too, but Chuck's canons are, as far as I know and have been told, to scale for 6 pounders.

 

If I'd put more thought into it, I'd have ordered them for my build, but at the time I didn't.

 

It means most of use Pegasus/Fly builders are running around with 12 pounders on deck.... :P

 

ANdy

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Regarding six pounders Alistair there is some considerable leeway. According to Brian Lavery even towards the end of their use there were seven different lengths of six pounders listed ranging from 6' to 9' in length.

 

The length quoted for the Blandford of 1716 is 7' 6"

 

I went with the RB models (32mm) brass turned version which scales to 6' 8" but looks about right on Pegasus, to my eye anyway.

 

I did trial the RB 29mm version which is pretty close to the Syren dimensions, but I liked the look of the 32mm better.

 

I do have samples of Chuck's six pounder gun which at 29.9mm scales to 6' 3" and is proportionately smaller in diameter at the muzzle swell and Base ring, which does make it look a little on the small size for Pegasus.

 

However, once they are all uniformly arranged along the deck and not viewed in comparison to other sizes your perspective may change.

 

 The Syren guns are beautifully made, but they are a major feature on the model so you need to be completely happy with the look before you commit to fixing. The carriages incidently are about the same size as those supplied with the kit but are of far superior quality.

 

B.E.

 

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That's some nice work -- I really like your ladders & hatchways.  As for the cannon, I can't honestly say I can spot the differences.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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As with the Armed Virginia Sloop, I am impressed with the quality of your workmanship.  Your cannons look fine; and I can't believe the detail you put into your ladders to below decks. 

Thanks for your input on my build.

Cheers.

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