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17th Century British Galley Friggot by allanyed - 1:64


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While I enjoy plank on frame construction more than POB, POB does go faster.  As no internals will be viewable, POB is definitely a nice alternative to POF.   The bulkheads are all cut out and mostly in place.  The QD and FC bulkheads are yet to receive decoration and moldings and only set in place for now without glue so a couple filler pieces between bulkheads are not yet in place.   Filler pieces are in place between the other bulkheads to give some rigidity and the entire unit has to be faired once the two loose bulkheads are complete and fixed in place.     There is work yet to be done in fairing the deck line as well as the outside of the hull, but not too much. 

 

The bulkheads are not all evenly spaced.   Some of the bulkheads are on the station lines which were very easy to draw and make.  Others are offset to account for the gun ports that will be left open and the QD and FC bulkheads which do not sit on a station line so a bit of lofting had to be done in each case.  At this scale, the top timbers are extremely weak and easily snap off.  Once the filler pieces were glued in placed, this problem went away and stood up well to  the preliminary rough sanding, even with a vibrating mouse.  At this point I see no need to add additional filler/stiffener pieces between those that are in place and the keel. 

 

Not sure if I am going to treenail the  hull and/or eck planking when the time comes.  At1:64 the trennals would only be about 0.016 in diameter, the smallest hole in the Byrnes drawplate.  I have found getting even bamboo this small to be a frustrating task at best, so am hesitant to even put them in.  I realize these can be added even without full frames or filler pieces, just piercing the planking, but no sure how this would look at this scale.   I could also drill the holes at this size and just fill them with a smear of glue and sand over the holes to fill the with sawdust.   I would love to hear any thoughts and see any photos on how any type of tree nailing will look at this scale. 

 

 Long way to go, but no major glitches so far even with only having the basic contemporary body plan drawing as a guide for framing.

267122040_Deadwoodaftkeelandstem.thumb.JPG.c3e593b18e61a7746221dd0cfb4c3dff.JPG

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, allanyed said:

would love to hear any thoughts

 Allan, could you use the tips of toothpicks? Drill the hole, insert the toothpick as far as it will go in and snip it off. I love the look of treenails but they are truly a labor of love. I assume you're not going to paint the hull? 

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I would say - be careful. At this scale too much detailing can look overworked however authentic it is.

Best to do is make a section of planking and try out a couple of different techniques with finishing and all. Then you can tell which one you like the most (or the least).


The hulk looks promising, keep it up!

 

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1:64? Leave them off. On the real ship, treenails were not visible as nails were plugged with diamond shaped inserts of long, not end grain wood. These would be almost invisible. Treenailed decks are one of those model-makers' conventions, like 3D lettering on the counter or ebony false keels!

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Posted (edited)

Keith,  Unfortunately I have never seen a toothpick that is reduced to 0.016 diameter, and having upwards of 10,000 trennals on the hull is a chore I would never want to face.  Just inserting them so they are all in the exact same amount and then clipping them off and sanding makes me think the diameter that is seen will vary quite a bit. Also, as the planking will be castello, and tooth picks are usually birch, they would definitely give a measles effect.  After reading your kind reply I did measure a few dozen right at the tip and they were all over 0.02  at the tip.  With an average taper of close to 8 degrees, the diameter after 0.125 along the long axis which would be the minimum amount they would likely need to be inserted, the average diameter is 0.042, (nearly 3 inches diameter at scale versus the 1 inch  to 1.25 inch needed.)

 

Bruce the diameter is perfect, but I have never seen fishing line in other than clear, light blue, green, yellow  or pink.  Would be great if it was close to the the castello color though!!!  Also, I have used monofilament for fishing for many years but cannot say that I have ever seen 37 pound line.  I checked the web and could not find it.  Any hints on where it can be had?  Tx

 

Hakan, point very well taken and is one of my habits when trying something new.

 

Druxey, I agree.  I have usually treenailed at 1:48 and even then tend to undersize with excellent effects.  At 1:64, I am leaning to leaving them off the hull, and definitely the deck planking as the deck will be holly.  With the white holly, bamboo or any hardwood that can be made that small in diameter will look awful. We see decks on models here all the time that have treenails that are double or triple the diameter that they should be.   In the past I have drilled holly decks and then sanded to fill the holes.  A quick coat of clear finish holds the sawdust in place and is subtly different in color as would cross grain plugs.   Plugs made with grain in the same direction of the planking of course would not be visible.   Same idea for the hull, drill, fill the hole with a smear of dilute white glue and sand to fill the hole.  This method does work well based on my experience.  IF the test pieces look good, I may go this route.  Otherwise, no trennals!

 

Thanks again for your responses!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Any hints on where it can be had?

Ebay is a good research tool. I found 200+ hits for '37lb monofilament' but since it was the Ebay UK site you probably will do better with your local service. There are quite few brand names.

As to colour, at .4mm I would expect clear works best. I had black, green and clear available so tried them on some test pieces. Black screamed, the green looked green, but clear was very discreet, sort of 'now you see me-now you don't'. My test pieces were a bit bigger, also I fiddled around with coloured glue but only half-heartedly. Worth a try.

 

HTH

Bruce 

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Very nice work Allan,  coming along very nicely.  I did put in trennels for the deck planking in my Endeavour (1:60).  The size there allowed me to go two sizes bigger in the Byrnes draw plate (very slightly oversized.  They look okay, especially at viewing distance, rather than the photo close-up distance.  I also used bamboo (from skewers well wetted before drawing) - very painstaking as you have pointed out.

 

Here is what it looked like.

 

1457674935_ForecastleJune2012.thumb.JPG.cdc3be1a7dbbabf7fcd788139658a144.JPG  1726535425_EndeavourMasts18Jan15_MSW.thumb.jpg.00f17e0ae9184454b6a660194a6e2ac5.jpg

 

cheers

 

Pat

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  • 2 weeks later...

I took a week and a half break from the hull "framing" and worked on the stern before erecting it and working on it in situ as it was MUCH easier doing so while laying flat on the bench.    Once the stern timbers were assembled to the wing transom the planking was laid in and sanded.   The planking all curves slightly downward from the center line.  Rather than cut these to shape, as this is a small scale and the bend not too severe, I soaked the planks and edge bent them around a form as described by Chuck Passaro in some detail here at MSW. (Don't remember where he posted this, sorry)   The basic set up is a form clamped to the edge of the work table and the plank gently bent and help down on the ends and in the center to prevent it from buckling.  Once clamped in place I "ironed" the plank with a flat head on my soldering gun.   Took a few minutes on a test piece to get the hang it so as to not scorch the wood.  The heat is an important factory in getting the pieces to remain in the new shape once released from the clamps.  I suppose this is akin to steaming and then bending to shape.   The same was done for the moldings.  These were made of castello and shaped with various scrapers made from stiff backed razor blades.  Hack saw blades also work well.

201187229_Pre-edgebendingaplank.thumb.JPG.db3b60bd3e691632889aaaa4e63f643a.JPG

 

 

Once the planking was done the locations of the molding and various figures was marked and the blue background was painted, leaving bare wood where necessary for gluing the decorations.   Artist tubed acrylic paint was my choice as it is superior to craft bottled acrylics.  It is pricy by comparison, but a tube goes a LONG way considering the amount of paint that we use on a model.  Munion base pieces were made and glued in place.   

 

I took a page (or several) from Doris' Royal Katherine build for the decorations.   At larger scales, I am a fan of wood carvings, but as the scale is small and the 17th century calls for a lot of carvings I thought to give baked clay a try.  I am a fan of this techinique now that I have tried it.  I will probably go with wood for the figurehead, but that is to be seen.   Mullion figures are needed across the stern and in several other places so I made two pieces facing opposite each other then baked them.  Once hard, I made a mold of silicone.  Once the mold was done, it was only a matter of squeezing unbaked clay into the mold them baking the entire thing at 275F for 30 minutes.  The pieces were then removed from the mold and trimmed.  The trimming, scraping and sanding gave each a slightly different appearance, as if each was sculpted individually.     The finished pieces were painted with a gold tube acrylic.  I first tried a gold that was recommended in a sculpting forum on a test piece.  I had a hard time finding it and then waited over two weeks to get it.  In the end, I did not like the finish at all as it had rather large glitter and looked nothing like gold leaf.    Went to a plainer gold from Liquitex and am quite happy with the look.  

 

107786414_Mullionfiguressiliconemold.JPG.2f51e2239a73d93fd73feb285238e6db.JPG

Finding a glue that holds baked clay to wood was a search in itself.  I first read that E6000 was the way to go so bought some.  It is stringy, stinks, and takes 24 to 72 hours to cure.    I then spent an hour reading additional comments on various sculpting forums and the consensus seemed to be gel CA.  I was not happy as I do not like to use CA on models and I had none in the shop.   I bit the bullet and bought Gorilla gel CA per the various recommendations and I must say, it works.   

 

If Doris is a PhD sculptor, I am still in primary school, but the stuff is forgiving in that you can work with the hardened figures with needles and such for missing details and it sands quickly where necessary.   The photo below is my first foray into this medium and I hope not too bad.   

 

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 The stern lights (windows) were leaded glass panels.   I took a lesson from a post elsewhere here at MSW and scribed a piece of plastic.   This was then cut to fit in the seven light openings and the round openings nearer the top of the stern.  The scribed material can be rubbed with a grey paint which will sort of fill the scribed lines to give a lead look, but I found it to be too much of a contrast and prefer the more subtle look of the plain scribe lines.

 

1406964262_Sternlightmaterial.JPG.780cef7dc9c2ed17cf96f536d6ee35f1.JPG

 

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Oh, WOW, Allen - the clay carvings look really terrific.  I also watch Doris with equal parts fascination and awe.  I have watched her carving tutorial videos.  One thing I can’t figure out is how she and you (now) manage to scale the uncured clay sculptures so that they all fit perfectly within their allotted spaces, without looking crowded.  I’ve experimented a little with FIMO and Sculpey, but my results were more Picasso than Van de Velde.  Any tips? 

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Posted (edited)

Hubac

Thank you!  I used Fimo for the originals and now that I am used to it, may go to a harder clay as it is a bit sticky and hard to handle.   I find Sculpy much too soft and sticky expect for the production pieces made with the silicone mold as it is easy to squeeze into the molds and easier to work after hardening.   Overall the stickiness of both is a huge pain in the neck but I found if I continually wet the tools I made and my finger tips, not nearly as much of a problem.   The silicone mold is good for 500 degrees so not an issue in the baking process in case anyone was wondering. 

 

As to sizing, the figures tend to grow as it is worked from squeezing and working.  I mark a piece of wood with the size limits and continually resize with light squeezing in both the X an Y axes as the details are cut into the clay.  As I write this I think maybe a tiny shallow box the size of the piece would be a good way to keep things to size and may give it a try on the next pieces to be made. 

 

Druxey,

Thank you!   I am still torn between clay sculpting and wood carving.  If the deco did not call for a gold color in the end I think I would have stayed with wood and my trusty Russian chisels.     Regarding the light grey, at this point it might be a tough one  but will give it a go.   Thank you very much for the tip.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was not happy with some of the painted items for the stern, specifically the fleur-de-lis and did a little experimenting.  Rather than paint directly on the wood I bought several types of archival paper and printed and painted samples.  The two best results were printed rather than painted.  I drew the   fleur-de-lis on TurboCad with various colors then printed on each of six different archival paper samples.   The samples that were painted on top of the printed samples were not nearly as neat in the details even using a super small high quality brush.  Of course shaky old hands may have had a part in that.

 

The thinnest paper samples would have been good when gluing to the wood, but the printing was not nearly as crisp.  I copied in place to double up on the color saturation but saw no difference on any of the samples. 

 

Two best results are below showing the single layer print on the paper identified.    Each blue rectangle is 5/16" wide by 3/8" high.84979600_Paintsamples1.thumb.JPG.ad2ad9f44a53799ba0af63aeac77eb85.JPG 

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Allan, I had some good results printing to a good quality decal paper and applying to pre-painted wood, then sealing with non-yellowing varnish.  Have to be careful with the varnish as some of the varnishes break down the decals as soon as it is applied (seems to be a decal paper type vs varnish combo which needs experimentation) .  This is only if you are going for a 'frieze' effect,  if going fore a carved/embossed look your paper based versions would be better.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Pat,

Carvings are being done as carvings, and painted decorative work is what I was not happy with.  Decal paper has never worked for me so I went with paper, and now archival paper types as they appear to have a history of good longevity.   Painting on paper is not new, it was really a study I wanted to do in what kind of paper worked best for painting the freizes and panels.  I drew the items, in this case the fleur de lis with the CAD program as a guide for painting, but the detail was so small and difficult for me even with 4X magnifier and nearly single hair brush I thought just using the CAD drawing would be worth a try and it is far neater in appearance.   Using a top coat that is compatible with the ink is another matter .  Varnish, poly, shellac or ????   Any experiences you or others have would be very welcome.   I do have some paper/scroll work decorations on a model that I built in 2006 that was coated with clear non-glossy polyurethane and it has shown no signs of degradation at all so lacking other experiences I would go this route.   Thanks again.  

Edited by allanyed
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Posted (edited)

Allan, I use 'Zapon' Lacquer for my brass etc as it creates a solid good cover that does not yellow (It is the preferred product for gilding and the like) so may work?   Eberhard (Wefalck) can provide the technical detail if you are interested - he recommended it to me.

 

The other product I use, especially if working with paper, is an artist's spray on lacquer (I am currently trialling NUART - Matt Spray) which work well.  Being an artist's product, I think it should be safe and long lasting when used it with paper and similar mediums (such as canvas etc)?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN
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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I started making gratings, coamings, and head ledges.   I have been using the method describe by Bernard Frolich in The Art of Ship Modeling on pages 117-119 for a number of years.

In order to avoid open holes on the edges the gratings are made first and then trimmed as close as possible to the desired size yet leaving a sold line of wood all around.  Then the coaming pieces and head ledges are cut to fit around the gratings.   

 

First, the basic slab of wood (castello in this case) is cut to allow an extra row or more of pieces in the athwartships direction.  The thickness is  1/16" or more than what the final grating will be.   

 

To make the slots, I used a fine tooth blade that has a  0.04 kerf (2.5" at 1:64 scale)  The blade is raised to about 0.03 deep.  Note that there is a 0.04 wide by 0.02 deep guide glued to the cutting board.  You can just see the blade protruding through the board.  The space between the guide and blade is 0.04"

2136542384_Gratingblanksshallowfirstcuts.JPG.659adedf4b9fa1555cf29761f0f98757.JPG

Next, the ends are carefully squared so they can be passed over the saw blade 90 degrees to the first cut when the first of the deep cut passes are made and the piece is held against the guide.  This is critical as all following passes will be parallel to the first of the second pass cuts

104049562_Gratingblanksquaringendsforsecondcut.thumb.JPG.9b060864b5e5af683d170520f5007cb7.JPG

The blade is then raised and the cross cuts are made at 0.07" deep.

 

2052128883_Gratinigblanks.thumb.JPG.f4ddb34c7d0375432c03b8a161288884.JPG

Strips for the slats are then cut over sized and then thickness sanded to 0.03" X 0.04" wide.   Once sized they are glued in the shallow rows of slots.

After the glue has cured the blank is run through a thickness sander until the excess wood is gone and the holes are open.  Small pieces of shavings sometime need to be cleaned out of some of the holes with a needle are micro chisel. Note that there is sometime breakage on the outer rows which is why I make at least two extra rows on the blanks.   

1752705190_Gratingblankbeforeandaftersandingback.JPG.1b5aa3168fa892ee90321e999aeaf0fd.JPG

Once assembled the large finished blanks are cut into properly sized pieces.  

The coamings and head ledges are then fit to the gratings.  Those in the photo are loose fit at this point.  Once glued in place they will be lightly sanded on top so the grating matches the coaming and head ledges.  Note that the solid running pieces go fore and aft allowing the grating to be bent slightly to give a rounding to match the rounding of the head ledges.

310406373_Gratingsandcoamings.JPG.88adb0a8ec727f65ca30d7de402657a8.JPG

Allan

Edited by allanyed
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Nicely done, Allan. I find that, even with a guide parallel to the saw blade, the piece being grooved can sometime yaw a bit, ruining the piece. I've experimented by using a shorter guide strip that stops at the front of the blade (more or less) and carrying the piece across the saw using the miter gauge set at 90 degrees.

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Thanks Druxey!  I will definitely give that a try.    As to the yawing, you are absolutely correct.  Slow and easy seems to be the problem, at least for me.   I found that if I gave a very firm single stroke without hesitating, it works better.  In making the long pieces from which the gratings will be made, I had two that yawed by the third groove but on the next two piece when I went with the firmer push-through they worked out.   

Allan

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I have come across an item that had me in a bit of a quandry.  On the Charles Galley I find no evidence of ladders from the upper deck in the waist area up to the forecastle which I had previously assumed were always there.  Looking at contemporary models at Preble Hall, there are simple ladders on one model from the 17th century, but none are present on the models of the Mourdant 1681 nor the St. Albans 1687  and Boyne at the National Maritime Museum    A painting by Richard Endsor of Tyger 1681 shows a ladder coming up through a hatch forward of the foremast.   Drawings by Van de Velde of the Charles Galley are inconclusive.  As there may or may not have been ladders port and starboard from the upper deck to the aft end of the forecastle I am opting to have a ladder through a hatch forward of the foremast, but if anyone has better information than I have been able find, I would appreciate any input.  Regardless, I found this to be an interesting point.    

Allan

 

St. Albans

f5857_003.jpg

Mourdant  Sorry for the poor clarity on this one, it is a photo of a photo.

image.png.a799e1efb286caed2cb6f40bf627a756.png

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Posted (edited)

Great point David.  The height is actually a little over four feet on the Charles Galley.  Even I could get up four feet  (some years ago, that is)      But that brings up the point that there was no head room under the forecastle.    I know people were shorter 300 years ago, but that is a bit much, no?  Then again, I know of an original door in an old house (600 years old) in Tuscany that is only 4 feet 6 inches high and has cause my friend the owner more than one laceration and contusion.

Allan

 

 

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