Jump to content

Why decorate a fireship?


Recommended Posts

Seawatch is selling a book about the Royal Navy Fireship Comet of 1783.

 

The ship was highly decorated, even though it was built with the intent of setting it on fire:

 

Color10.jpg

 

Why in the world would the Royal Navy decorate a ship they intended to burn?

 

[EDIT: Since posting this question, I found a thesis online called "The Fireship and Its Role in the Royal Navy": https://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/pdf-files/Coggeshall-MA1997.pdf]

Edited by Smile-n-Nod
Added link

Brett D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Subterfuge ??  Make a fire ship look like a fire ship and it could be spotted early giving the enemy fleet time to cut anchors / flee.  Make the fireship look like a normal ship of the line and it can get in close to the enemy fleet before the fuses set off the fires / explosives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven’t read the book by Sea Watch so I don’t know very much but I always thought fireships were generally ships that were destined to be decommissioned. I guess that could explain why they were decorated, because they were not built with the intention of being fireships, they just ended up being one do to old age or damage. I could be wrong here but that could be a reason. 
 

Thinking about it, I’m not sure they would have ever intentionally built a fire ship, that seems like a huge waste of money to me. But if you get 20 years out of a vessel then it’s final stand is used to break up an enemy formation that seems pretty useful to me. 
 

Bradley

Edited by Keithbrad80

Current Builds:

Flying Fish - Model Shipways - 1:96

 

Future Builds:

Young America 1853 - Scratch Build - 1:72

 

Completed Builds:

HMS Racehorse - Mantua - 1:47 (No pictures unfortunately)

Providence Whale Boat - Artesania Latina - 1:25 (Also no pictures)

Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24

 

Shelved Builds:

Pride of Baltimore 2 - Model Shipways - 1:64 (Also no pictures)

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Keithbrad80 said:

Thinking about it, I’m not sure they would have ever intentionally built a fire ship, that seems like a huge waste of money to me. But if you get 20 years out of a vessel then it’s final stand is used to break up an enemy formation that seems pretty useful to me.

It seems like there would have been plenty of old, nearly rotten ships that could have been used.  Building a new one, let alone decorating it, just doesn't make sense to me.

Brett D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the expectation was that opportunities to use fireships would be few and far between, and so for most of its life the vessel would be expected to serve the same purposes as others of its size - convoy duty, commerce raiding etc. Then if the opportunity presented itself, you had a vessel on hand designed to maximize the potency of a fire attack. Comet was afloat for almost two decades before she was employed at Dunkirk Roads. 

Current build: HMS Speedy, Vanguard Models 1:64

 

Past Projects: 18th Century Longboat, Model Shipways, 1:48

                         22 Foot Yawl, Vanguard Models, 1:64

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, whitejamest said:

Then if the opportunity presented itself, you had a vessel on hand designed to maximize the potency of a fire attack.

   From my understanding of ships of the day, between the tar, wood, sails and cordage, they were ALL potential fireships...whether you wanted them to be so or not.

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, John Smith Shallop
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch 1/4 scale-Model Shipways plans)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some fireships were, indeed, old clapped-out vessels. Others, like the Comet pictured above, were purpose built as fireships. And yes, they were decorated as other warships were. Clive (post #2) is correct.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could they have really skimped on the superstructure while spending more on the  outside appearence?

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think any structural shortages were employed in Fire Ships, they needed to be sea worthy and capable of serving the fleet, sometimes for years. Would expect them to look like any normal vessel of their size and rig. Going aboard and the truth might be seen, expect them to filled with the combustibles of the day, stored for ready use and much of it. It would be the combustibles that set them apart from the rest of the fleet.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Structure was modified for the fire deck and various hatches/vents on deck, but otherwise no skimping on construction. If you are interested buy either:

 

Fireship, The Terror Weapon of the Age of Sail by Peter Kirsch, Naval Institute Press/Conway

 

or

 

The Fireship Comet by David Antscherl, SeaWatchBooks

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding the earlier point about hiding the identity of fireships, I believe one of Cochrane's legitimate complaints about the leadership on the night of the attack on Basque Roads was that the fireships were too far from the target. They were recognised by the French in time to react.

See Clive in post#2. Clearly the element of surprise is lost if the fireship stands out either by appearance or actions.

Edited by bruce d
stupid spelling mistakes

🌻

STAY SAFE

 

A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin

current builds:

HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style

Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild 

French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A fireship is a very specialized ship. The layout, the construction, how her ports are cut, the internals of her. They're not just a converted ship (generally though some were pressed to serve as fireships with significant modifications made on the spot) because a normal ship just isn't designed to burn. Ports open upwards, burning through the line that holds the port open and they all shut starving the fire of air. The combustibles below are arranged in special systems to be able to have fuses led around without to the various places that needed fusing. There's an escape hatch at the aft end, below the stern usually where the crew can make their escape. Now these things could all be changes made on the spot (knock the port lids off and they won't shut, no need to hinge them from the bottom really), but the crew was specialized as well. And as such, they needed specialized training. So why give them specialized training and let them loose into the fleet? Give them that training and let them loose with purpose built fireships. Can't for the life of me remember where I read/listened to/watched that but it was relatively recently. If I find it, I'll post a link. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

many firehips were converted regular ships, ex Navy, merchant or prizes. Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ship and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fireships_of_the_Royal_Navy

I think their original decoration was not taken off out of two reasons: too much work involved and if one could distinguish an enemy fireship on the first glance due to "low end" outfit it was easier to to adjust own tactics. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My considered opinion is that they must have done it because the Royal Navy literally had money to burn.

Under construction: Mamoli Roter Lowe

Completed builds: Constructo Enterprise, AL Le Renard

Up next: Panart Lynx, MS Harriet Lane

In need of attention: 14-foot Pintail in the driveway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...