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Glory of the Seas 1869 by Vladimir_Wairoa - 1:72 - medium clipper


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4 hours ago, gak1965 said:

The planking work is very nice. Are you planning to paint or go for a bare wood second planking with some kind of attractive veneer? It will look great either way, just curious.

 

George K

I will paint black once sanded George. No second coat. :) i was playing with idea to aply thin veneer ebony dyed but to some point it seems fake to me. so no other coat hopefully wont be needed :) V. 

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After i lined Up and reached Copper line, there wont be painstaking planking downwards, no tapering  just very plain  messy approach to fill hull and speed Up as much as i Can. IT Will be covered by copper so i dont see the point... Using 5 mm planks now - no length paying attention etc.... Its goes quick. Im  afraid photos dont justify magnitude she IS in that scale. Huuge. All of a sudden She Will be planked ! Yay :)

 

 

 

 

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Vlad,

 

Just catching up on the progress, and I must say you are moving along at a Clippers pace. Beautiful job on the bowsprit and the planking is coming along great!
 

Nice to see the fine lines of these beautiful ships come together. 

 

-Brian

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Vladimir your planking work continues to amaze me. Glory's true form is really looking beautiful. You and Rob are both doing incredibly beautiful work. It's exciting seeing your projects develop. Great work!

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Vlad..you are doing great....but I'm trying to wrap my head around the location of the side port.

 

Several images are conflicting and I know that the copper line has changed over time with Glory...probably due to her weight restrictions placed on her over time.....but...

 

Your ports are placed just above her copper line...similar to that of the image of her being towed to Alaska....but her original launch image shows the side port much higher from the copper line.  Even the era I am building shows her side port higher up from her copper line.   Note the images.  Her copper line has changed in her later years...probably after they removed the copper.  Sorry about the upside down image..?

46087515_2105024879542622_4373814077986701312_o.jpg

Glory at port (2).jpg

1770412739_Photo_2021-03-19_200344(4).thumb.jpg.0a2919eb20021c7d1662c25c154f2fd3.jpg

20210321_225244.thumb.jpg.c2fb866b0dc31db4c1e9bcfeda4f6276.jpg

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Posted (edited)

 Rob & Vladimir, due to my "anal retentive" preoccupation with keeping all things as accurate as possible with "GLORY of the SEAS" I have repeatedly counted strakes on her side (which is possible with a clear enough image) below her sheerline molding to the top of the starboard loading dock is exactly 7 strakes.

Per Duncan MacLean's 1869 description, all strakes were 6 1/2". So 7×6 = 42"+7×1/2 = 3 1/2" more. Top of loading dock is exactly 45 1/2" (3' 9 1/2") below the lower sheerline molding. Since the side is exactly 4 strakes, that makes her side 4×6= 24"+4x1/2 = 2", making the side 26" (2'2")

It's harder to tell whether there are 9, 10 or even 11 strakes below the dock, since the thin white line which denotes the coppering line is so hard to make out. Basically that puts the lower dimension between

(1) 9×6=54"+9×1/2"=4 1/2" or 58 1/2" (4'10 1/2")

(2) 10×6"=60"+10×1/2"= 5" for 65" (5'5")

(3) 11×6"= 66" + 11× 1/2" = 5 1/2" for 71 1/2" (5'11 1/2")

Where this gets even more interesting is the final dimensions we get to the top of the exterior Monkeyrail Molding. We're now sure the exterior of the Mainrail Bulkhead from sheerline molding to Mainrail Molding is 48" add 18" to top of Monkeyrail Molding equals 66" or 5 1/2'. Adding this to the other 3 measurements gets these results = 58 1/2"+

26"+45 1/2"+66" = 196" or 16' 4" putting it below the 17' we estimated as the lowest point of her sheerline midpoint of her Main shrouds. Since we know that Glory's sheer was 7' and I count the height at her Jibboom as 24' & an additional 1' for the Quarterrail Cap for Rob's 25' total height. Adding an additional 6 1/2" for 10 strakes puts us closer at 16' 10 1/2". Adding another 6 1/2" to that gives us 17' 4 1/2".

So the only useful measurement that fits neatly into every other one is the highest, being 11 strakes above the coppering line. 

Next I'll try to convert these actual dimensions into usable 1:96th & 1:72nd scale.

 

Edited by ClipperFan
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Vlad..you are doing great....but I'm trying to wrap my head around the location of the side port.

 

Several images are conflicting and I know that the copper line has changed over time with Glory...probably due to her weight restrictions placed on her over time.....but...

 

Your ports are placed just above her copper line...similar to that of the image of her being towed to Alaska....but her original launch image shows the side port much higher from the copper line.  Even the era I am building shows her side port higher up from her copper line.   Note the images.  Her copper line has changed in her later years...probably after they removed the copper.  Sorry about the upside down image..?

46087515_2105024879542622_4373814077986701312_o.jpg

Glory at port (2).jpg

1770412739_Photo_2021-03-19_200344(4).thumb.jpg.0a2919eb20021c7d1662c25c154f2fd3.jpg

20210321_225244.thumb.jpg.c2fb866b0dc31db4c1e9bcfeda4f6276.jpg

well well. Thanks for this note Rob. You are right on the money i guess. What can I do ? 😕  well , i am out of thin strikes so i would be stuck again for couple or weeks if lowering copper line. i followed 22' measurement possibly of latest era. hmmm... you gave me important thinking for what to do with it now.... i like it being lower too....not like cutty sark up to rudder up :D 

 

I also have few questions Rob. you wrote aou are going to paint aour coppers yellow. would you mind engplighten me what paint are you going to use for it? i myself hate leaving it copper i prefer yellow color so i would like to do the same if you dont mind of course. i have great experience and outcome with revell enamel paints - very smooth thin layers. but i have to check for color and i dont even know how to make copper paltes from tapes i never done it before so i have to try it on somehow. having zero experience. but i am not there yet. 

another point i am really curious is - lets see last photo -  it is intereating than  ! copper plates are laid out following planking pattern? this is really beautiful and i would say unusual aproach it almost look like planks u der copper are visibl but its decieving as coppering is done exactly following planking strakes. . for example on cutty sark plates are laid horizontally !  I have crothers book so copper plates are explained in plenty and way the were mounted. 

so i would like to dollow this pattern as on last photograph. 

earlier coppering like photo in the midel or original one after built seem to me been done horizontally exactly as cutty sark was...from the photo this is only assumption  aybe you know better. 

 

when planks are black it doesnt matter if last two lines are thicker but i dont want to spoil overall effect of "proper planking.". i have to think it out morě Thanks much for observation Rob. v. 

 

 

Edited by Vladimir_Wairoa
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7 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

 Rob & Vladimir, due to my "anal retentive" preoccupation with keeping all things as accurate as possible with "GLORY of the SEAS" I have repeatedly counted strakes on her side (which is possible with a clear enough image) below her sheerline molding to the top of the starboard loading dock is exactly 7 strakes.

Per Duncan MacLean's 1869 description, all strakes were 6 1/2". So 7×6 = 42" + 7×1/2 = 3 1/2" more. Top of loading dock is exactly 45 1/2" below the lower sheerline molding. Since the side is exactly 4 strakes, that makes her side 4×6= 24" + 4x1/2 = 2", making the side 26".

It's harder to tell whether there are 9, 10 or even 11 strakes below the dock, since the thin white line which denotes the coppering line is so hard to make out. Basically that puts the lower dimension between

(1) 9×6=54" + 9×1/2"=4 1/2" or 58 1/2"

(2) 10×6"=60" + 10×1/2"= 5" for 65"

(3) 11×6"= 66" + 11× 1/2" = 5 1/2" for 71 1/2".

Where this gets even more interesting is the final dimensions we get to the top of the exterior Monkeyrail Molding. We're now sure the exterior of the Mainrail Bulkhead from sheerline molding to Mainrail Molding is 48" add 18" to top of Monkeyrail Molding equals 66" or 5 1/2'. Adding this to the other 3 measurements gets these results = 58 1/2" + 26" + 45 1/2" + 66" = 196" or 16' 4" putting it below the 17' we estimated as the lowest point of her sheerline midpoint of her Main shrouds. Since we know that Glory's sheer was 7' and I count the height at her Jibboom as 24' & an additional 1' for the Quarterrail Cap for Rob's 25' total height. Adding an additional 6 1/2" for 10 strakes puts us closer at 16' 10 1/2". Adding another 6 1/2" to that gives us 17' 4 1/2".

So the only useful measurement that fits neatly into every other one is the highest, being 11 strakes above the coppering line. 

Next I'll try to convert these actual dimensions into usable 1:96th & 1:72nd scale.

 

Rich.. I have it exactly 7 planks below and 4 planks in opening but it should ha e been originalyl a tad (1.5 mm aprox) higher as my planks are 3 mm wide and in scale should be 2.6 mm... well from sheer up making rails i will intend to be as precise as possible. Im leaning to leave copper line as it is 22'  atm. i will settle boat to later era than probably...still ill focus on  finishing planking hull and than to decide we can debate it in plenty. V. 

 

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1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Vlad..you are doing great....but I'm trying to wrap my head around the location of the side port.

 

Several images are conflicting and I know that the copper line has changed over time with Glory...probably due to her weight restrictions placed on her over time.....but...

 

Your ports are placed just above her copper line...similar to that of the image of her being towed to Alaska....but her original launch image shows the side port much higher from the copper line.  Even the era I am building shows her side port higher up from her copper line.   Note the images.  Her copper line has changed in her later years...probably after they removed the copper.  Sorry about the upside down image..?

46087515_2105024879542622_4373814077986701312_o.jpg

Glory at port (2).jpg

1770412739_Photo_2021-03-19_200344(4).thumb.jpg.0a2919eb20021c7d1662c25c154f2fd3.jpg

20210321_225244.thumb.jpg.c2fb866b0dc31db4c1e9bcfeda4f6276.jpg

Rob, a trick I've learned to allow me to avoid upside down photos is to edit them slightly. In this case, I reduced both sides just enough to take out the white edges. Now when it's posted, voila! right side up!

As for the confusion on Glory's coppering line. When she was originally launched in 1869, her copper line was specified as being 22'.

Later, that line was increased by adding an additional line of copper sheets. Michael Mjelde has said since each sheet was 14" tall, this raised the height of her copper line to 25'. It would make sense that after a few years at Sea, the Captain being concerned about protecting his vessel's Hull integrity made a recommendation to add the additional line of coppering.

It's actually referred to more accurately as yellow metal, but in America was it Muntz or something uniquely American that I'm till unsure of.

20210729_112602.jpg

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Vladimir, Rob's probably very familiar with the true shade of Muntz metal aka yellow metal. Here's an ongoing chat in Model Ship World that I thought might be of some value. 

There's actually a fellow who worked on "Cutty Sark's" most recent restoration who confirms the shiny golden hue is correct Muntz metal. In comparison copper is nowhere near the same. I've read that over time, due to extensive exposure to salt water it does turn green but what shade is beyond me. 

20210729_142746.png

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3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, a trick I've learned to allow me to avoid upside down photos is to edit them slightly. In this case, I reduced both sides just enough to take out the white edges. Now when it's posted, voila! right side up!

As for the confusion on Glory's coppering line. When she was originally launched in 1869, her copper line was specified as being 22'.

Later, that line was increased by adding an additional line of copper sheets. Michael Mjelde has said since each sheet was 14" tall, this raised the height of her copper line to 25'. It would make sense that after a few years at Sea, the Captain being concerned about protecting his vessel's Hull integrity made a recommendation to add the additional line of coppering.

It's actually referred to more accurately as yellow metal, but in America was it Muntz or something uniquely American that I'm till unsure of.

20210729_112602.jpg

than dear Rich, i have some deary suspicion then you would not like to hear :D 😕 maybe overal height or measurement of boat and my bulkheads construction are that much off ( how could hell be?) and she should be taller !  because i measured 22' as my line exactly :/:/ 😕 my goodness....last resort of rescue - im going to measure it thotoughly tomorrow ! 

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On 7/27/2021 at 6:33 PM, mbp521 said:

Vlad,

 

Just catching up on the progress, and I must say you are moving along at a Clippers pace. Beautiful job on the bowsprit and the planking is coming along great!
 

Nice to see the fine lines of these beautiful ships come together. 

 

-Brian

Thanis for stopping by Brian, I apreciate that. Have fun. ! :) V. 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

than dear Rich, i have some deary suspicion then you would not like to hear :D 😕 maybe overal height or measurement of boat and my bulkheads construction are that much off ( how could hell be?) and she should be taller !  because i measured 22' as my line exactly :/:/ 😕 my goodness....last resort of rescue - im going to measure it thotoughly tomorrow ! 

Sily of me ! 

 

Its All All restored i didnt lose her. I BET Rob Has it right but i had to remeasure it. I was making port opening  vaguely freely from eye scan from pictures and look how wrong i was. As welcomed addition. my laziness got me now. Sily of me. 

Everything plays Safe. Waterways 12 inches = 4 milimenters. Now planks are 6and a half inches in my scale IT IS 2.29ilimenter! I forgot than i planked with 3 mm planks and it makes Bug difference... and counted those... Look ať the photo where opening should be founting 7 strakes multiple 2.2 mm = 1.5 centimeter.and how small IT should be which makes ship even bigger. ..sorry really..

I have to remake IT. For sure. All of a sudden copper line distance IS perfect. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Vladimir_Wairoa
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1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Sily of me ! 

 

Its All All restored i didnt lose her. I BET Rob Has it right but i had to remeasure it. I was making port opening  vaguely freely from eye scan from pictures and look how wrong i was. As welcomed addition. my laziness got me now. Sily of me. 

Everything plays Safe. Waterways 12 inches = 4 milimenters. Now planks are 6and a half inches in my scale IT IS 2.29ilimenter! I forgot than i planked with 3 mm planks and it makes Bug difference... and counted those... Look ať the photo where opening should be founting 7 strakes multiple 2.2 mm = 1.5 centimeter.and how small IT should be which makes ship even bigger. ..sorry really..

I have to remake IT. For sure. All of a sudden copper line distance IS perfect. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Vladimir my apologies, I forgot to ask if you were using the metric system. All of my calculations have been on, I guess it's called the Olde English measuring system. I'm glad you resolved your issue. Yes, when the docking port is the appropriate size it make the ship appear bigger. Kudos to you for reconfiguring it. By the way a new detail I just noticed, which actually makes sense is that the entire docking port is surrounded by  very thin wood, like a picture frame. It makes sense that this port would be finished like that so that vulnerable strakes wouldn't be damaged. You have to look closely but it's visible in the scene of Glory on the Ways as well as in her fitting out scene.

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8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir my apologies, I forgot to ask if you were using the metric system. All of my calculations have been on, I guess it's called the Olde English measuring system. I'm glad you resolved your issue. Yes, when the docking port is the appropriate size it make the ship appear bigger. Kudos to you for reconfiguring it. By the way a new detail I just noticed, which actually makes sense is that the entire docking port is surrounded by  very thin wood, like a picture frame. It makes sense that this port would be finished like that so that vulnerable strakes wouldn't be damaged. You have to look closely but it's visible in the scene of Glory on the Ways as well as in her fitting out scene.

I will check on that . i noticed frame outing a bit from inside of boat. i very much like that detail so i will incorporate it . V. 

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Vladimir, Rob just made an amazing discovery which will require you to adjust your rudder cut out significantly. It turns out the rudder post extends 6 1/2' from where it exists the Stern (this is the length I calculated by comparing this device to the 4' main bulwarks added to the 2' drop which is formed by the transverse structure which shows up as a shadow in the same scene. Rob has circled the picture where he discovered it. 

1360933153_Gloryextremeclose-upofstern_LI.jpg.1e1ad59a3b152f96e5b29a7dca2b10c8.jpg

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3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, Rob just made an amazing discovery which will require you to adjust your rudder cut out significantly. It turns out the rudder post extends 6 1/2' from where it exists the Stern (this is the length I calculated by comparing this device to the 4' main bulwarks added to the 2' drop which is formed by the transverse structure which shows up as a shadow in the same scene. Rob has circled the picture where he discovered it. 

1360933153_Gloryextremeclose-upofstern_LI.jpg.1e1ad59a3b152f96e5b29a7dca2b10c8.jpg

Thank you. im observing your discussion. apreciated.V. 

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17 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Making dust...

 

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Vladimir you did indeed "make some serious dust." Awesome results worthy of "GLORY of the SEAS" herself! When she was first launched, Duncan MacLean commented that she sides were polished as smooth as glass.  Your miniature vessel replicates that look impressively.

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1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir you did indeed "make some serious dust." Awesome results worthy of "GLORY of the SEAS" herself! When she was first launched, Duncan MacLean commented that she sides were polished as smooth as glass.  Your miniature vessel replicates that look impressively.

Thanks Rich. 

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delay. My lumber provider  reached out to me that messed up between adresses so actual bulwarks section is on hold. what now? 

i will apply shellac on hull as primer. after painting black up to copperline, i decided to postpone coppering itself tothe winter snowy months. i decided im not up to Robs taping procees and i dont have experience with it. closest to real thing with no exagerated rivets in 1:72  i found premade copper plates from amati. i will most likely do that.  it looks like free weekend. till next. cam wait for bulwarks stuff. that will be tough but i hope fun part. 

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1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

delay. My lumber provider  reached out to me that messed up between adresses so actual bulwarks section is on hold. what now? 

i will apply shellac on hull as primer. after painting black up to copperline, i decided to postpone coppering itself tothe winter snowy months. i decided im not up to Robs taping procees and i dont have experience with it. closest to real thing with no exagerated rivets in 1:72  i found premade copper plates from amati. i will most likely do that.  it looks like free weekend. till next. cam wait for bulwarks stuff. that will be tough but i hope fun part. 

I hate delays.  It's like knocking the wind out of your sails...just when your getting in your groove.

Yes...I too looked into the premade(very detailed) copper plates...but the price tag was just not acceptable after I calculated the number of them needed to complete the job.  NOT to mention that since I was able to complete the job in just over 13 hours(with my method)....that would not have been possible laying one plate at a time.  Not withstanding, I might have become either homicidal or suicidal trying it one at a time.  It's not in me to have that kind of patience.

 

*Warp speed Mr. Sulu*

 

I'm looking forward to your next installment.

 

Rob

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4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I hate delays.  It's like knocking the wind out of your sails...just when your getting in your groove.

Yes...I too looked into the premade(very detailed) copper plates...but the price tag was just not acceptable after I calculated the number of them needed to complete the job.  NOT to mention that since I was able to complete the job in just over 13 hours(with my method)....that would not have been possible laying one plate at a time.  Not withstanding, I might have become either homicidal or suicidal trying it one at a time.  It's not in me to have that kind of patience.

 

*Warp speed Mr. Sulu*

 

I'm looking forward to your next installment.

 

Rob

yours are fantastic. yes i didnt calculate cost yet so i will come to that point later. but its always with me. i sometmies rather pay than pay twice sith nerves wracking bad outcome etc. i hate that somwtimes more than money left. i was almost thinking of paitnitng hull to mimic muntz but it would be proabably very plain poor aproach  ...so i stick with coppering for now. but its thing of next 3 or for months. i want to focus on bulwarks and rails - ver important and lst structural form to complete hull and sgio apearance...for now and that wont be simple task but im looking fwd to it. than i will paint hull black and rest. :) fingers crossed. 

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