Justifying the purchase of a mill

[Captain T]

Hi all,

 

I wanted to make a post here and get a feel on people's opinions on this topic. I've been looking at the Proxxon MF70 and I'm trying to determine if such a thing would be worth purchasing given my situation. Basically, I do only kit builds at this point. At my current experience level, I don't feel that I'm quite prepared to dive into the world of scratch builds so, to keep it simple, I stay with kits. I have a couple models under my belt, the most recent being Amati's HMS Pegasus. I don't currently have anything on the bench right at this moment, but I've been following James's build log of the prototype HMS Sphinx and  am strongly considering that as my next project.

 

My main question is would a mill be worth buying for me? I'd really like to see some examples and pictures of things people have accomplished using a mill. I'm curious what all can be accomplished with one and how much the use of a mill can simplify and improve a final project.

 

I don't do a ton of other wood hobby work other than the occasional furniture item, but i do have a lathe that I've made pens and such on. 

 

Additionally, I have a dremel rotary tool. Based on my research, the dremel brand work station is one to stay away from, but I've also looked at the Vanda-Lay Acra mill as a possible option. It would be nice to be able to make good use of the dremel tool I currently already own. I don't have a drill press either, so a mill would probably fill that niche for me as well, for small, ship model sized applications, that is.

 

Anyway, if anyone has any insight that might help sway my opinion,  I'd appreciate it, as well as if anyone has any specific examples and/or pictures on how they've used a mill to improve their build, or if they've found any unique tricks or techniques to get the most out of the tool, I'd greatly appreciate the information! 

 

Tony

[TBlack]

Tony,

when I started modeling it was with kits. And along about the 3rd or 4th there were parts of the kit that I could do better (blocks, gratings, etc.). Pretty soon I figured I could also do a POB hull, just with the stuff you have plus a preac saw. That was it. Haven’t had to build a kit since which opens the world to you of possible modeling subjects. Now the mill. I bought one 3-4 years ago. Huge difference only limited by your imagination. I got a Sherline with DRO. I can’t opine as to the flexibility of the Proxxon, but it’s probably a good entry tool. Heck, at least you’ll be able to drill holes in a straight line! Go for it!

Tom

[Jaager]

Tony,

 

If you have the money to burn and any sort of economy in a budget is not a goal, go for a serious precision mill.  Understand, that the necessary tooling will probably be be equal to the price of the mill if not more.   There will be few jobs for it where something less expensive will not be sufficient and it will mostly be a tool looking for a task.  Think of it as primarily a tool for those doing scratch POF with a focus on replicating the usually hidden internal support structure.  The real value for a mill as well as for a precision lathe is fabricating your own tools from metal raw material. 

 

As for another question it would probably save you some frustration and futility if you forgo any attempt at trying to use the Dremel as anything but a hand held rotary tool.  Unless you are doing a lot of trunneling, you are probably seeing it as a paper weight with POB kits.  Unless the expenditure is on drill bits or cutting tools, money spent on accessories to turn it into another sort of tool will probably be money that is wasted.

 

To repeat something glib,  a serious mill and especially a precision lathe fit well under a version of the Yacht Rule: 

If you have to ask if you need one, then it is probably something that you do not need - yet.

 

 

[Moab]

Tony; I can’t comment on the mill but I might consider a drill press before purchasing a mill. (I’m not saying I’d use a drill press as a mill.) I’m not sure how others feel about this...Moab

[Captain T]

1 hour ago, Moab said:

Tony; I can’t comment on the mill but I might consider a drill press before purchasing a mill. (I’m not saying I’d use a drill press as a mill.) I’m not sure how others feel about this...Moab

 

But you could theoretically use a mill as a drill press though, right? With the mindset of being as economical as possible, I'm leaning towards the mill with the thought that it could fulfill both the purpose of a mill as well as a miniature drill press, vs a drill press that could only really be used efficiently for that specific task. Thoughts?

 

Granted if in the future I wanted a full sized drill press for other projects not related to ship modeling, I'd probably go with a regular, normal sized press. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Captain T

[Bob Cleek]

If you want a mill, by all means get one, but the best rules to follow with tools, and particularly expensive ones, is not to buy one until you have a job that you can't do without one and then buy the best tool you can afford. If you say you only do kit builds at this point, I really don't think the cost of even the Vanda-Lay AcraMill is justified. (And, within their understood performance parameters, the Vanda-Lay devices are quite good, although limited when coupled with a Dremel mototool. They really don't approach their full potential unless they are coupled with a Foredom flex-shaft and handpiece for reasons discussed several times over in this forum.) 

 

That said, with two models under your belt and no sense of taking it to the next level yet, I wouldn't recommend your spending big bucks on a lot of "heavy artillery." I'd suggest you concentrate on acquiring a good selection of top quality hand tools before anything else. Get a Dremel, if you must, but realize that its usefulness is limited. (I use mine all the time with cut-off wheels to saw through small tool steel parts and such, but for little else.) If you come to really enjoy the hobby, I expect you will soon become dissatisfied with all but the highest quality (and priced) latest generation of kits. If you stay at it for any amount of time, you will become dissatisfied with the quality of the materials in many kits and start replacing parts and wood, thereby commencing your slide into the depths of the "Dark Side," scratchbuilding. You will likely also become frustrated with the limited range of kit subjects to build and want to build something that hasn't been built in kit form many times over.

 

In my opinion, I think a dedicated mill becomes necessary only if you find yourself needing to do a fair amount of milling of solid metal. Depending upon the era of your interest, you may never need one or find one essential. Before you buy a mill (and its attendant tooling, which will likely cost at least as much as the mill before you get done,) there are many other very useful tools that will improve the quality of your work and save a lot of time, energy, and in some cases, money. Considering your present level of modeling, as described, and assuming you are able to invest the money in quality tools and tooling, I'd suspect the following shopping list in progressive order of priority, anticipating that your modeling skill increases apace:

 

1.    Foredom flex-shaft tool with a minimum of the collet and the chuck handpieces, plus a good selection of bits and other tooling.

 

2.    A standard-sized  bench-top drill press which, with a decent micro-chuck, will drill accurate holes of any size. (A Vanda-Lay drill press or AcraMill with the clamps to hold a Foredom handpiece will serve well, but, for the same cost, is limited in the size work it can handle.) 

 

3.    A decent X-Y table for the drill press. (Which will allow very limited lightweight milling of wood if judiciously done. Drill presses aren't designed to take the lateral stress imposed by milling processes. The X-Y table will ensure accurate placement of drilled holes, as well.)

 

4.    The Byrnes Model Machines disk sander. (And a good shop vacuum to collect the dust.)

 

5.    The Byrnes Model Machines table saw with sliding table attachment. (Which is essential for milling one's own strip wood, etc. Accept no substitutes!) 

 

6.     The Byrnes Model Machines thickness sander. (Which is essential for milling one's own sheet stock and strip wood.)

 

7.     A quality scroll saw.

 

*.     At a minimum, A decent Sieg 7X lathe with milling attachment or a Sherline lathe with the necessary attachments and tooling.

 

Note that there is much discussion of lathes in this forum. Keep in mind that a decent lathe will work on smaller pieces, but a small lathe will never be able to work on larger pieces. Some folks have space limitations or wish the particular features of watchmaker's lathes, which are another animal entirely. A used Atlas 12X  or Myford 7 in good condition with extensive tooling, for example, can often be had for considerably less than a new micro-lathe such as the Sherline. The Sieg 7X lathes are Chinese-made and notorious for requiring a rebuild and extensive fetteling right out of the box, but by paying a bit more from one with a quality badge (e.g. Grizzly or Little Machine Shop,) one can be reasonably certain of avoiding a lot of grief in that respect.

 

8.    Last, but certainly not least in expense, a quality small milling machine such as the Sherline or Sieg models. Keep in mind, however, that if you have a mid-sized bench top lathe (e.g. 12X,) and it's horizontal milling attachment, you may well find you've eliminated the need for a stand-alone milling machine entirely.

 

Just my two cents worth. Others' mileage may vary.

 

[Captain T]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Based on what I'm seeing, its looking like for my purposes, a mill at this stage might be overkill. With a focus primarily on kits, nine times out of ten, I can probably get the desired results with the tools that I have and a little work. It seems like most everyone is recommending that I start looking at mills and more expensive tools after a I have a few models under my belt and I start to develop more experience and realize that I'm unsatisfied with kit offerings, both in individual parts and fittings, as well as subjects.

[mtaylor]

All add..... mills are nice and pricey.  However, much work can be down with a dremel type and few hand tools like files and sandpaper that mills and even lathes are used for.  There's several topics on using a dremel type as a lathe.  I have a lathe, not used it much except to turn some cannon and masts.  Tasks I found could be done using the Dremel tools.  The mill I have, is being patient with me as use if more than the lathe but not nearly as much as my small table or my jig  saw.  Those last two, I'd highly recommend.  

 

I'd say take a look at what you're building and what tools are needed to get the job done or be modified/used in a different way to get it done.

[Dr PR]

A mill is very handy for two basic types of work.

 

As Tom said above, with a mill you can do precision work when drilling lines of evenly spaced holes (pin rails, etc.) or cutting straight precision grooves. It is useful for making multiple copies of things like the sides of gun carriages, gratings and such.

 

If you get a rotary table you can then make more complicated things like wheels and such. And a dividing head (it has stops for rotation at precise angles) allows precision machining of things like holes for spokes in a wheel hub, etc.

 

Once you get used to working with a mill you can do a lot of interesting things.

 

****

 

The big difference between a  mill and a drill press is that the bearings in a drill press are just designed for single axis up/down drilling. You can position the table below the drill and then drill a hole, but it isn't designed to work with forces perpendicular to the drill axis. You can use a Dremel in a press for milling (I have done this) but if you do this often it will wear out the bearings relatively quickly.

 

A mill is basically a three axis drill press.The bearings in a mill are designed to cut into material moving at right angles to the axis, such as when you use an end mill to carve a groove into a piece of material fastened to the moving table. Especially if the material is steel or brass. And you can do anything with a mill that you can do with a drill press.

 

****

 

Another thing a mill is useful for is making very specific tools. For example, on an upcoming project I will need about eight feet of a thin brass strip with two rows of alternately spaced rivet heads. For this I will need a special tool. It could be a tool for use in an arbor press that has a custom created punch and die and provision to increment the position of the strip with each successive stamping, or a geared roller arrangement to pull the brass strip through a rotating pair of punch/dies. Either way I will have to make the tool and a mill will be essential for this.

 

A similar tool will create two and three rows of rivets along the edges of hull plates.

 

Another specialized tool will stamp water-tight doors out of 0.003" brass. There are eight different types and sizes of these doors on the ship with different stamped rectangular "bumps" for stiffness and from four to ten dogs, plus rotary handles and levers to operate the dogs. Most of these doors are not available commercially at 1:96. So I am thinking of how to make the dies for use in an arbor press.

 

A similar tool will be used to stamp rivet patterns in external "backing plates" in the hull plating.

 

****

 

And with the right combination of tools you can even use a mill as a lathe for fairly short pieces - but I can't imagine trying to make threads on a mill!

 

Here are some photos of milled frames I made for a 1:96 Cleveland class light cruiser hull. This is 1/2 inch thick Plexiglas that I salvaged from the scrap bin of a plastics fabrication company next door to where I worked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fiberglass hull was pretty thin and flexible so I needed stiff frames to pull the hull into shape. This was especially necessary because the hull had a lot of tumblehome (wider at the waterline that at the main deck level, but the mold had to be wider at deck level so the fiberglass shell would come off.

 

I also had to make longitudinal pieces between frames at the deck level to get the correct hull shape. The longitudinals fit into the frames. Everything was epoxied into the fiberglass shell.

 

The frames also served to hold the brass alignment jigs for the propeller shafts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The stern was also a challenge. It is roughly square at the waterline and semicircular at the deck level. The fiberglass hull would not make the correct shape at deck level without the machined Plexiglass shape fitted between the last frame and the stern of the hull.

 

I could have cut all of these shapes with a band saw or even a hand saw, but it would have been a lot more work. On the mill it was an easy task. These things were all cut free-form - I clamped the Plexiglass sheets to the table and used the hand wheels to drive the table so the end mill cut along printed lines on sheets of paper attached to the Plexiglass.

 

 

Keep in mind that I was using a several ton eight foot high milling machine to cut this thick material in single passes. But a small desk top mill can do the same thing with 1/4 inch Plexiglass, wood, aluminum and other "soft" material. You can cut thin (1/16 inch or less) steel with the smaller mills. You can cut thick material with the smaller machines, but you have to go slower and use multiple passes.

 

Here is another example.

 

 

 

 

This is an old 1950s Lionel O-27 engine that I got as a kid. Later on I got another engine like it, and I wanted to double head them. But the Lionel engines did not have a front coupler. So I replaced the front casting with the machined piece circled in red. It was carved from a block of aluminum, shown on the right. Again, I used the milling machine with an end mill to whittle away material from the aluminum block a bit at a time. I drove the X, Y and Z axes by hand. I used small files to smooth the rounded surfaces of the steam cylinders, and added brass ladders and the brass bar on the front below the coupler - using tiny brass hex head screws from the local hobby shop. The pilot truck, side steps and coupler are Lionel replacement parts for different engines.

 

You really are limited only by your imagination as to what you can do with a milling machine. With a small mill you don't have as much power as with the larger mills so you just have to remove smaller amounts of material with each pass. A larger and more powerful machine will let you work faster than some rig using a Dremel tool.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Dr PR

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

As a model maker, it is fun to use a mill.

But a milling machine was never created to shape wood.

A milling machine is made to work with metal, a hard material to work by hand.

 

Is there a piece in a model ship that needs to be done  absolutely with the mill? The answer is no.

But, on the other end, it does not mean that a milling machine cannot be useful.

Here are some examples.

[DelF]

I have the Proxxon MF70 and would highly recommend it. I also have a larger mill for bigger jobs, but the Proxxon is ideal for the smaller scale stuff you're likely to face when kit bashing. Even with kits, as opposed to scratch building, there are lots of ways you can improve the basic offering with a mill. The cathead in Gaetan's earlier post is one example, and as you rightly surmise, the mill doubles as an accurate drill press - with care you can get tolerances close to +/- 0.01mm which is more than sufficient for our hobby.

 

For examples of the MF70 check out my Speedy log. For a recent convert have a look at Glenn Barlow's Cheerful log, which contains several examples of work he has achieved with the mill not long after buying it. For examples of a real maestro at work, look at any of Marsalv's logs. I bought my mill after seeing what he achieved with the MF70 on his Royal Caroline build. He has since gone down the CNC route, but still uses his basic machine a lot.

 

Another good feature of the Proxxon is that you can achieve good results without spending a fortune on additional tooling. I believe the MF70 still comes with a set of cutters and clamps as standard, and the only other essential you need to get you started is a precision steel vice - I got the PM40 which is fine. The mill takes ordinary drill bits up to 3.2mm so there's no extra expense there. I left refinements like rotary tables until I'd got the hang of the basics. 

 

Arguably no power tools are essential, and many modellers still produce fine results without them, but I find the convenience and accuracy makes the mill well worth it. I should add that figuring out how to get the best from the mill is part of the fun, especially if you enjoy problem solving. Again, look at Marsalv's work to see the ingenious jigs he makes up from bits of MDF and bolts.

 

Hope this helps

 

Derek 

[No Idea]

I made this today entirely from start to finish (except for the tapered rabbet which was filed by hand) on an MF70.  Is it up to the job  - damn right it is!  The thing that this tiny mill has over its much bigger counterparts is spindle speed.  You can get up to 20,000 rpm which on a small cutter virtually eliminates chip out.  This is one of my go to tools and wouldn't be without it.

[Roger Pellett]

Good advice is dependent on your goals: budget, workshop space and even your age (are you just getting started outfitting a workshop that you will use for many years?)

 

First, IMHO upgrading a hand held rotary tool is throwing good money after bad.  I have a 45 year old Sears “Little Crafty” rotary tool.  Like most older tools made before well known brand names were slapped on outsourced products it is well made.  I seldom use it, and when I do it’s for metal working.  Like Bob says, it’s great equipped with an abrasive cutting disc.  For serious model work it’s way too aggressive.  

 

If I were moving from “kitchen table” model building to equipping a workshop, the first major power tool that I would buy would be a drill press.  Bench top drill presses are not expensive, take up little space, and compared with other power tools produce relatively little dust.  They work equally well drilling wood, metals, and plastic.  I use mine almost every time that I work in my shop.  For drilling, with their lever operated quill they are easier to use than a mill, where the drilling column must be advanced with a handwheel

 

If you decide to buy a drill press, make sure that it is equipped with ball or roller bearings.  I prefer belt driven tools to those with electronic speed controls; better long term reliability.  The Jacobs chuck on my drill press will not close on drill bits smaller than 3/32in diameter (about 2mm).  I therefore, have a set of pin vices that accept smaller drill bits and can be mounted in the chuck.  I believe that there is an old adage that says to buy machine tools by the pound; the heavier the better.  A good drill press gets its precision by rigidity.  Rigidity requires mass.  My drill press is also 45 years old and works as well as it did when brand new.

 

Roger

 

[Moab]

Oh how we LOVE our tools...Moab

[Justin P.]

I agree with pretty much everyone.   I bought one years ago, then promptly sold it to another MSW member as it really wasn't as useful for what I was trying to do at the time and it became an expensive paperweight.   Then I got another MF70 in the last year as a gift, and now I use it all the time.  Probably when I don't need to, and likely more often than not incorrectly.   However, it is a joy to use and can make very nice precision parts in harder woods as demonstrated above.    I can't comment on value, at one point it was too expensive for me to have laying around and now that I haven't paid for it, I love it...   

[Roger Pellett]

Moab,

 

By having the right tools our ability to create is only limited by our imagination.  I personally know of no other human activity that provides this.

 

Roger

[KeithAug]

I agree with many of the comments above but here is my experience.

 

I got my first lathe about  35 yeas ago and found it useful on both kits and scratch builds. On kits it gave me the opportunity to make better and more detailed replacements for those nasty plastic, white metal and to a lesser extent brass parts that kit providers often supply. I dint think I really needed a mill until I got one about 10 years ago. I then found I used it a lot more than the lathe. I now wouldn't be without one. I find that with a bit of imagination it makes many jobs simpler and more accurate. 

[JeffT]

I bought mine without justification 

[grsjax]

If you have a lathe you can use it to mill parts.  A milling attachment for a lathe is a lot cheaper than a mill and can do most of the milling necessary on a model.  Here is a link to one for a Taig lathe sold by Little Machine Shop https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1956  There are milling attachments for most lathes on the market so you shouldn't have a problem finding one to fit yours.

 

[Roger Pellett]

Machine tools are expensive and IMHO trying to justify a purchase by determining what ship model parts you can use them for misses a good bit of the point.  The question not being asked is “What jigs, fixtures, and tools can I make with machine tools that will improve the quality of my models?”

 

With my lathe and milling column I have made: a propeller soldering fixture, a fixture for holding small blades in my sharpening jig, a jig for soldering ladders, a height gage, a fixture for aligning a drill for hawse pipe holes, and just recently a beam compass (photo below.).  My lathe headstock and tail stock are also my go to tools for accurately starting taps and dies.  

 

Whenever I run into a ship modeling problem that requires a tricky setup I consider if I can build a jig or fixture to solve it.

 

Roger

 

[rshousha]

I think I will wade in here with my own thoughts.

 

There is nothing to justify.  The cost of buying the mill is just an entry to a learning process. The learning process itself will consume hundreds of hours of your time and thousands of dollars of materials. The cost of the mill will become irrelevant with time and experience. The details of this mill or that mill, or this part or that part are really secondary.  

 

You are buying an education. This is priceless.  

 

Cheers, 

 

Rick 

 

[Keithbrad80]

In my house I have to check with the admiral before buying an expensive tool, her question is always “what are you going to use it for” and my answer is always “I don’t know yet”. My justification for that answer is some tools are so versatile it would take me all day to describe the many projects I could use it for. A mill for instance, you are really only limited by your imagination, you may say now that a mill may only serve this one specific purpose but you will soon realize that with slightly different bit or some shop made tooling might produce something you may never even imagined. I don’t have a mill but I use my friends full sized mill all the time, if I had more space I would buy one without question because of all the things you can make with it. I will also add that some tools are even better with the presence of other tools, though it takes time to collect high quality tools like bandsaws, drill presses and lathes, using all of them together can create some really precise and very good looking products. If I were looking at a mill right now I would first think fo the things I would actually use it for, like the stuff I know I would use it for right away. But then I start to think about other possibilities, maybe one day you come across something that could be made using hand tools or something but could be made faster and easier with a mill. Blocks are the first thing that come to mind, Chuck has proven that with the right tools and skill you can make thousands of very high quality blocks in a short time, more importantly they are all identical. 
 

If you have the money and space I say go for it, you will find something to use it on and if you don’t return it or sell it to someone else. I’ve purchased expensive tools before knowing that I would only use it a handful of times, but also knowing I could sell that tool when I’m done and get back at least some of my money. If a tool does what I want it to and it cuts back on time then I vote go for it. 
 

Bradley

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I have 2 mills, 1 on the table and 1 on the floor. Also 1 drill press on the table because most of the small mills do not have the handle to make it as well a mill and a drill press. Proxxon has 1 model but it is expensive. The floor model serves as a mill and as a drill press.

 

Does a table model is essential for a model ship maker, of course the answer is no. The work can also be done by hand on wood but it is fun to work with a small mill and this tool can be more accurate than a knife.

 

I rarely use the table mill, may be 1 time  every few months. On the other end, I use the floor model every week. I use the mill more often than the lathe. I bought my first lathe and mill about 30 years ago and never regret it. 

 

Like the table mill, the floor mill will ease the work you can do on metal and it will do it better than if it is done by hand. Especially with metal, the work will be done I do not know, 50 or 100 time faster, because cutting and filing metal by hand... you get tired very fast.

 

The table mill can do work on metal and the main difference with a larger one is the quantity it will remove in 1 pass.  With the table mill, you will remove 1 or few thousands at the time and with the larger ones, it can be anywhere from 10 to 100 time faster.

 

If you never intend to build some parts in metal, a floor model will never be necessary. A table mill is a nice tool  and fun to use for a model ship enthusiastic. It will be use as much for wood and metal and as any other tool, it will facilitate your work and it will help precision to assembly some parts  in less time.

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

 

Jigs and fixtures used in ship modeling are not highly stressed and not subject to much wear.  They can, therefore, be made from easily machined materials that are within the capability of tabletop machine tools.  I use aluminum.  I have a Sherline milling column that attaches to my Sherline lathe bed and uses the Sherline lathe headstock and motor.

 

Roger

[jimbyr]

Gaetan is right,  most of the benchtop mills don't have the capability to drill holes.  This benchtop mill is a Taig,  it came with the standard head on it,  no drilling.  I made a new head with a quill,  it has an ER-16 collet chuck on it up to 10MM  capacity.  It also has a 1/4 HP motor on it which will run from 600-10000 RPM and has  1 3/4 drilling capacity.  The run out on the spindle is .0002 which is about the best you can get.  It has a Fafnir taper roller bearing on the bottom and a ABEC-5 radial bearing on the top of the spindle and also in the pulley.  I put a Newall magnetic scale digital read out on it also.  The head is designed similar to the old Bridgeport M head.  Also made a vise for it because the one that came with it wasn't too good.  This machine is deadly accurate   

 

Jim

Model Machines

Edited June 1, 2021 by jimbyr

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Yes Sir, this is how it should be made!

 

[Roger Pellett]

My father once had a friend who lived in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio who had made a lot of money in days gone by inventing mechanisms for controllable pitch airplane propellers.  I was treated to a tour of his workshop in the basement of his beautiful home.  His shop featured a heavy duty elevator with direct outside access and he commented that he was negotiating with the local power company to bring in three phase power to run a new machine tool!

 

For many of us, buying and setting up full sized machine tools is as realistic as my father’s friend’s three phase power.  When I was shopping for a metal lathe a Taiwanese built Jet lathe, a clone of the old 4in Atlas, was about equal in price to a Sherline.  The Jet weighed about 500lbs and all in all was a more capable metal lathe.  Getting it home, hauling it into my shop and building or buying the necessary stand and foundation would have been a major additional cost and/or project.  A full sized milling machine would be an order of magnitude more in cost and work to set up.  I bought a an extended bed Sherline and later added a milling column. This has been more than adequate for my needs.

 

For drilling, my bench mounted drill press with its 1/2in chuck handles routine drilling jobs.  For very small drills I have the sensitive drilling attachment that fits my Sherline.  It works fine.  I have also seen generic sensitive drilling attachments offered that would fit other small mills.

 

Roger

 

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

For many of us, buying and setting up full sized machine tools is as realistic as my father’s friend’s three phase power.

My problem wasn't the power, but the size of the tools. When we bought our current place 16 years ago, a house and a 1500 square foot workshop building on 2.5 acres zoned "commercial/agricultural," I noticed the two transformers on the utility pole with the "drop" to the workshop. The workshop had originally been a cabinetmaker's shop before the sellers had bought the place. There was no mention of what was obviously 440 VAC three-phase commercial-rate power to the shop, and I said nothing.   I've never had the need to acquire any three-phase equipment, which can often be found dirt cheap on the used market, but I did pull two 220 VAC circuits off of the 440 VAC panel and wire the shop with 220 VAC outlets all around for my stationary power tools. Three-phase power is much less expensive than single phase, so the monthly bill on the shop meter is less than ten bucks. (Yes, I've thought of running a line from the shop back to the house, but you can go to jail for doing that.) Years later, a friend who worked for the local power company told me getting 440 VAC three-phase commercial service installed, assuming one could get a permit, would run at least $25,000 and I nearly wet my pants!  Meanwhile, if I come across a big Bridgeport with all the trimmings for the price of hauling it away, I'm good to go.

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, jimbyr said:

This benchtop mill is a Taig,  it came with the standard head on it,  no drilling.  I made a new head with a quill,  it has an ER-16 collet chuck on it up to 10MM  capacity.  It also has a 1/4 HP motor on it which will run from 600-10000 RPM and has  1 3/4 drilling capacity.  The run out on the spindle is .0002 which is about the best you can get.  It has a Fafnir taper roller bearing on the bottom and a ABEC-5 radial bearing on the top of the spindle and also in the pulley.  I put a Newall magnetic scale digital read out on it also.  The head is designed similar to the old Bridgeport M head.  Also made a vise for it because the one that came with it wasn't too good.  This machine is deadly accurate   

So, Jim, now that you've got the R&D done, when might we expect this new Model Machines toy to go into production?  

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

My surface grinder and my Hardinge lathe run on 3 phases... and I have only 2 phases.

 

The third phases that also runs on 240 volts is supplied  by a motor, through a rotary phase converter.