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HMS Victory by Bill97 - Heller - 1/100


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They look fine. I would move on too. However I just noticed in your photos that some ringbolts are missing:  there should be one in the deck behind each cannon, near the hatch coamings. This is for the "steady tackle" to an eye in the rear of the carriage which they rig to stabilize the guns in heavy weather. You see a couple of them in Longridge Plate 17, and on his model Plate 50.

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Thanks guys. Yeah Ian I know that line is also to be there, and there is the heavier rope that connects to eyebolts in the hull and goes through a ring on the end of the barrel. I may do those two lines on the “show guns” on the Quarter deck. Kevin I will be following your build to see how you deal with rigging the cannons later on. 

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Oh, you don't want to be doing that Bill, not unless you're planning on living a very long time. I have it all mapped out in my mind how I'm going to race through stuff once the stern is finished but I thought that would only take 2 or 3 weeks when I started on it 9 months back. And I'm so close to the end that I really want to just soldier through before I start playing with more interesting things. (It has become extremely uninteresting of late, just a never-ending series of technical obstacles).

 

Bearing in mind that sketch is of the 32lb gun, the largest she shipped, there's precious little space for the blocks on the smaller guns, and of course it's those that are on show. I suspect I'll cheat - from an appearance perspective, you only need one hole in a (single) block as the rope would hide the other... that offers possibilities.

 

BTW, I'm sure you know and this is deliberate but you've got the blocks hooked to where the big rope goes. (Leave me alone, I'm still working on my naval terminology).

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Kevin I am going to be honest and say I just realized that now that you pointed it out 🤯.

Well that is where they are going to stay on this deck. Again changes for cannons on Quarter deck. 

Edited by Bill97
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Ok Ian I am making one more trip around this “part 89” step. I am very close to putting the Quarter deck in. Almost everything done on Upper deck. Back earlier in comment #410 you suggested tying future rigging lines to part 89 before putting the Quarter deck in and referred me to Longridge’s book. I have looked over the Heller instructions and the page(s) of Longridge’s book but can not determine what exactly I need to do. Your “detailed” advice would be greatly appreciated. If you don’t mind 😊.

Thanks in advance. 

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Bill, I refer you to my post #461 of this log.

 

The note I refer to is shown in your photo of pg 267, at the top right of the diagram. It is best to tie the ends of these threads to the bitts (parts #89) before adding the 1/4 deck.

 

You'll need to allow enough length for each, given their runs as described below:

 

The mainyard jeers run up the mast to the upper jeer blocks beneath the mast top, reeve through the jeer blocks until all their sheaves are filled, then are timber hitched to the yard. See PLAN no. 8 (yes it's the foreyard but the jeers are the same).

 

The topsail sheets run up to the large quarter blocks slung under the mainyard, then out along back of the yard to the topsail sheet blocks, then either to the clew of the topsail (if you rig with sails) or the clewline block (if no sails; you can see in Plan 7 the topsail sheets ending at the clewline block for the topsails).

 

The mainsail clew garnets run up to the upper clewline blocks on the mainyard (just outside the octagonal part), down to the lower clewline block at the clew of the mainsail (if rigged) or to the lowerclewline block in mid-air below the mainyard  (no sail; see Plan 7 which shows the dangling clusters of clewline/sheet/tack blocks below the for and main yards), then back up and tie off to the mainyard  just outside of the upper clewline block.

 

 

 

 

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Ok great Ian. Thanks. Now I understand. So I simply tie threads to part 89 that will be long enough to accomplish the future rigging and for now coil them up like I did the sheet lines earlier. Bring them up through the opening in the Quarter Deck and just tape them out of the way. 👍

should there be belaying pins on part 89 for these “ropes” or do you just tie them to the cross member?

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On 9/15/2021 at 1:13 PM, Ian_Grant said:

Longridge also has a photo, Plate 46 between pg196 and pg197, showing the bitts. The aft bitts receive the jeers and garnets, the forward the topsail sheets, as the caption mentions.

 

Note: on the old Victory web site there was debate about whether a larger gap should be opened in the gratings to allow these lines to pass through, or whether the gratings should be removed entirely. Not sure there was a firm conclusion; Daniel might have an update 🙂.

See Plate 46

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Exactly what I did Ian. I drilled the holes in part(s) 89. Ran extra long threads through the holes as you instructed above and up through the grate. I have now installed (glued in) my Quarter Deck and dry fitted the mast to make sure the holes line up. On my other builds there has been a slight angle to the aft for the mast instead of perfectly vertical. The Victory appears to be the same. Hope that is correct! 🤞🙏

Also the bulkhead goes over the top of the deck at the bow. Is that correct?  Bulkhead dry fitted and not yet painted. You may also notice I finished rigging the cannons on the Upper deck. Instead of trying to make perfect coils for the end of the ropes I simply coiled them up as if on a belaying pin. 

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She's looking great, Bill!!  You continue to impress with your blinding speed 😄.

 

Foremast should be vertical; mainmast raked slightly aft; mizzen raked aft a little more.

 

Yes the beakhead bulkhead fits over the end of the forecastle deck.

 

Next thing for you to read up on in Longridge are the truss pendants for the lower yards. To rig these you'll need to add some eyebolts around the bases of the masts. Welcome to the serious rigging phase; and for this model it is very serious.

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Incredible progress Bill. Your log is turning into essential reading, a go-to for future builders. I now understand the discussion about the lines running through the gratings and why some think the gratings should be omitted. I’m hoping to make a trip to Portsmouth on Monday, if the weather improves, and that’s something I’ll try to look at. It seems like a strange arrangement in principle, I’d have thought there’d be a risk of the ropes rubbing against the gratings and fraying, but I’m sure they knew what they were doing.

 

I like your rope coils, looks natural and convincing.

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Ian I of course refer to your build as well as Daniel’s and Kevin’s and Foxy’s plus several others. Looking at your’s tonight I saw the picture of how you brought the lines up through the grate. I see that you cut out a small section. Once Kevin gets a chance to check out the real thing, maybe Monday, I may make a few modifications to my grate. I also noticed the eyebolts at the base. Is this the truss pendants you are talking about?

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No, actually those lashings to the ringbolts aft of the mainmast are the ends of the as-yet unrigged mizzen mast stay & preventer. I tied them off before even inserting the mainmast while I had easy access. You need to add these ringbolts too 🙂.

 

Longridge's Plan 10 "Belaying Plan" has the shortcoming that it does not show deck ringbolts for various rigging components.

 

Have a look at this photo below, which is from Hackney's little hidden gem of a book on how to model the Victory. This is a portion of his belaying plan, around the main mast, which does include deck ringbolts.

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Rigging items #65 are the mainyard truss pendant falls. Eleven inch double blocks are lashed at deck level to the two deck ringbolts labelled 65 forward of the mast. The free end of the falls belay to cleats labelled 65 on the mast.

 

As I mentioned above, 9 and 10 are ringbolts for the mizzen stay and preventer.

 

Number 64 indicates the mainyard jeer falls coming through the deck.

 

 

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I’ve booked for monday so, if there are any details you’d like photographed, sing out and I’ll do my best. You’d best give very plain descriptions, I wouldn’t know a jeer from a shear at this point. This will be my first non-family trip, just me and a camera, purely for info gathering. Sadly I think it still doesn’t have the upper masts or rigging, I was very disappointed at that when I first visited 8 or 9 years ago but maybe I’ll see them back on one day.

 

postscript: just occurred to me that, therefore, I don't suppose the rigging talked about above will be present... but at least I may be able to see how they handled the grating and fixings

 

(I googled Hackney following Ian’s tip, horrifically expensive on some sites…. But then looked on Amazon and saw a copy for £1.50 - about $2 - needless to say I couldn’t get my wallet out quick enough).

Edited by Kevin-the-lubber
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“You’d best give very plain descriptions, I wouldn’tknow a jeer from a shear at this point.”😀

Keven this is so true for me as well. After getting the above post from our dear friend Ian I had to pull out my Longridge book and Google for definitions!  Jeers, upper jeer blocks, timber hitched, main yard, garnets, clew line, and dangling clusters!  I think I had to take medication one time for dangling clusters! 🤔

 

But I have to admit I am learning a lot of nautical stuff I never knew before. Big thank you Ian.

 

Kevin I can’t think of any specific thing I wish for you to get pictures of. Just looking forward to seeing what ever pictures you take. Would love to fly over and join you in your tour. Ironically I was booked to fly to London Monday enroute to Scotland where my wife and I were going to spend a week at St Andrew’s. Unfortunately Covid concerns put a stop to that adventure 😟

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

I’ve booked for monday so, if there are any details you’d like photographed, sing out and I’ll do my best. You’d best give very plain descriptions, I wouldn’t know a jeer from a shear at this point. This will be my first non-family trip, just me and a camera, purely for info gathering. Sadly I think it still doesn’t have the upper masts or rigging, I was very disappointed at that when I first visited 8 or 9 years ago but maybe I’ll see them back on one day.

 

postscript: just occurred to me that, therefore, I don't suppose the rigging talked about above will be present... but at least I may be able to see how they handled the grating and fixings

 

(I googled Hackney following Ian’s tip, horrifically expensive on some sites…. But then looked on Amazon and saw a copy for £1.50 - about $2 - needless to say I couldn’t get my wallet out quick enough).

Yes, my family was in the UK a few years ago and I didn't bother going to Portsmouth to see Victory unrigged in her 20 year (!!!!) refit. When I last saw her in the late 80's she was also in a refit with blue tarps around half her hull. According to the schedule it should be completed when I am 75; I have my daughter's promise that if needs must she will go over with me to push my wheelchair on board 😃. Mind you, had I known that the Royal Navy Museum was there now, I would have gone. I thought I had it covered going to the NMM and to the Science Museum where to my disappointment Longridge's model is no longer on display.😕

 

Two dollars is a great buy! The Hackney book tends to be looked down upon by serious modellers for some reason. It's a little volume intended to help people building the smaller Airfix model to enhance its appearance and accuracy. The rigging illustrations are pretty basic in style but informative; in fact I could not understand the yard-arm tackles from just Longridge - Hackney helped.

There are however a few conflicts between Longridge and Hackney regarding block sizes on some rigging lines; I went with Longridge.

Edited by Ian_Grant
date correction
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2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

“You’d best give very plain descriptions, I wouldn’tknow a jeer from a shear at this point.”😀

Keven this is so true for me as well. After getting the above post from our dear friend Ian I had to pull out my Longridge book and Google for definitions!  Jeers, upper jeer blocks, timber hitched, main yard, garnets, clew line, and dangling clusters!  I think I had to take medication one time for dangling clusters! 🤔

 

But I have to admit I am learning a lot of nautical stuff I never knew before. Big thank you Ian.

 

Medication...HAHAHA!!    I just typed in "dangling clusters" as the simplest way to describe the groups of three blocks hanging from the clew line when rigging without lower sails. It's not a nautical term...😁

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 Bill, your bulkhead extreme close-up reminds me that the two gunport lids are crazy low relative to the deck. I believe on the old Forum people advocated raising them a bit. It was too late in my case, but here is a shot of Daniel's modified bulkhead. He seems to have raised the door sills and the ports; maybe you can find out all about it in his log.

 

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In fact Ian I started into Daniel’s build looking for anything he may have done to his. Like a number of build logs, his is pretty long. After rapid scrolling through a number of pages looking for pics of his bulkhead I gave up. 

I have no idea how such a thing could be manufactured, or how big it would be, but I have often thought a printed version of these build logs with a topic index would be a crazy valuable reference source. 

Edited by Bill97
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I actually found that picture just doing a google search for "HMS Victory beakhead bulkhead images".

 

In all HMS Victory searches, Daniel comes up in some way. You get to recognize some of his shots, for example the row of men on the heads 😃

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