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Trying to understand white balance


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Since this is a discussion of white balance, I thought I would post some examples.

 

I recently bought a cheap LED ring light. It does produce "white" light, plus all sorts of silly color effects for kids taking selfies. I just wanted to see how it would do.

 

The camera (Nikon D5200) has several white balance settings for incandescent, fluorescent, direct sunlight, flash, cloudy, shade, auto and preset manual. I turned the ring light on and positioned a white card in front of it. I selected the Preset Manual option and set the white balance. The lens was a Nikon AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm  f/2.8G IF-ED macro lens (unfortunately it isn't a "Turbo" lens). It is an excellent macro lens! Actually, maybe a bit too good. Every time I look at model photos made with it I see a lot of imperfections in my work!

 

 

601173454_WithAUTOwhitebalance2.jpg.668bd977c192e6d6b929a4f08e26983d.jpg536415210_Withcustomwhitebalance2.jpg.f0b98500033c21464aad2d29eb81fb6a.jpg

 

 

The photo on the left was shot with the "AUTO" white balance setting. The camera had to guess the colors and there were no white objects in the photo. The colors are awful! The shot on the right was with the preset white balance, and these colors are very close to the light brown bulwark interiors, black cap rail and wood tones of the deck - about what I see (with both eyes open) in diffused sunlight.

 

 

462853960_WithAUTOwhitebalance.jpg.cb161435fb46d207915fa52c71265e71.jpg1162693205_Withcustomwhitebalance.jpg.e7dd742d43d2eb8336badde5cec61ee9.jpg

 

 

Here are two more photos shot the same way. The AUTO white balance setting seems to have excess magenta, possibly because the cheap LED light really doesn't produce a true white light. Again, the shot on the right with the Preset white balance adjusted to the LED light produces pretty accurate colors.

 

I did no editing on all but the last photo except cropping to the same view area. The one above right is a photo stacked image of six shots to get a good depth of field.  But I did nothing to change the colors from what the camera captured.

 

I hope this shows that you should use a custom white balance for any "non-standard" light source (and cheap LEDs are not a "standard") if you want to get good color rendition.

 

Edited by Dr PR
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I have replace in our home almost everywhere the traditional incandescent bulbs with warm-white (3600 K) LED-bulbs, including the lighting in my workshop area.

 

Currently, there are no LEDs that emit light of this temperature, so 'white' LEDs that emit at around 5550 K are covered with a yellow lacquer.

Although this results in about 10% absorption losses, from the psychological point of view I find their light more pleasing and less factory- or hospital-like.

 

In consequence, I also take my workshop photographs at this light and did not experience any problems with the white balance. However, different LED-bulbs or -lights (I also have a 3600 K indoor LED-floodlight in my workshop) may have slightly different light temperatures.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Photography can be a very capricious subject.

Some days I prefer  the first photo and some other days I prefer the other one.

One is at 3100 and the other one is at 4300 degrees Kelvin. 

The color I see with my eyes is closer to only one of these 2.

 

I often had that dilemma when taking photos of model ship building with neon lighting depending of the color correction given in the camera.

This model ship is 100% cherry wood. When I cut cherry wood it is white and after aging it becomes more red. Tung oil has also the same effect as aging the wood on its color. So, I could say if I want a recent construction, I will go white and if I want  an older one I will add some red. There are so many way to change the colors...

 

Actually, I did upgrade the neon lighting and added LED lights and the degrees Kelvin are always set at 4300.

 

Which photo is which is not important,  if I can find one that I like!

IMG_49.jpg

IMG_490.jpg

Edited by Gaetan Bordeleau
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9 hours ago, wefalck said:

I have replace in our home almost everywhere the traditional incandescent bulbs with warm-white (3600 K) LED-bulbs, including the lighting in my workshop area.

In the workshop, if I want to see the color as the eye sees it, I will use around 4500 Kelvin but most importantly, if I want to be able to see all the details, I will use LED lights with high lumens.

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Yes, a lot of lumen are important, in particular when one's eyes get older ... As I said in an earlier post I prefer to build in a light colour in which my models are likely to be seen in the future and this is likely around 3600 K. A temperature of 4500 K might be a good compromise between incandescent light temperature and daylight.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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On 11/22/2021 at 3:53 PM, wefalck said:

A temperature of 4500 K might be a good compromise between incandescent light temperature and daylight

 

Roughly, I chose 4300 Kelvin because 5500 is too "clear". Also, it is not because you buy a light rated at 6500 Kelvin that it will measure really 6500 Kelvin. They often take measure in ideal conditions and this is usually not the case at home.

 

I did a simple test to try to verify if there are advantages to work with the correct color range:

 

2 identical photos, except one at 4300 Kelvin (left) and one at 3400 (right side).. One parameter is also different the speed: 1/60 sec  and 1/20. Lower degrees needs a longer shutter speed.

 

Are there advantages to work and see more accurate colors? I would say that the answer is yes. More accurate colors also means more accurate details. The same way the more light the more details we can see, there is also another variable which can increase the amount of details,: the color range.

 

Here is another example: During the construction stage, I shoot some photos. At the end, I also shoot some global views. Then I examine the photos results on a computer screen. By having more accurate color, I can see more accurately the details and easily see where corrections are needed.

 

Strangely enough, the first tool a new model maker will buy is probably some kind of saws. There are many ways to make the task much easier for the aspiring model maker and they are not all tools. Before beginning to work, there are 2 tools that I would absolutely want to have: an electric height table "to work at the good height". and few LED light to easily see what I am doing.

Capture d’écran, le 2021-11-28 à 15.34.54.jpg

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  • 5 weeks later...

So here is the rhetorical question:
How important is that the white balance is perfect when taking pictures of their models for our members?
More important: Is the viewer monitor set properly?

How do you know? - Probably not!

This is me:
I use dual monitor with my computer - one is an Asus the other a HP, when set to same all settings - my screens are showing details and different colors.
Both running same resolution/frame rate/ color and from one and the same video card and using same type of output!

 

Take your picture being out-door with clouded sealing will create the best scenario without any hard shadow or highlight.
Many pro-photographers of cars and other models has been doing it this way.
Even better having a grey/white cloth hanging over the photographer along with the model to create an almost balanced light.

There are so many aspects to consider in this matter.
So, bottom line the white balance in the digital age can be thrown out - still today a proper white balance reference card set beside with the "model", is needed to will create the right setting.

 

As for us here at MSW, take your pictures and upload the one you are most happy with - it's not a competition.
If the white balance is slightly off, I don't care - it's the details of your model that is more interesting.
 

 

 

Please, visit our Facebook page!

 

Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics 
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Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan

Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS

Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey

Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry

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On 11/28/2021 at 1:09 PM, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

 

Roughly, I chose 4300 Kelvin because 5500 is too "clear". Also, it is not because you buy a light rated at 6500 Kelvin that it will measure really 6500 Kelvin. They often take measure in ideal conditions and this is usually not the case at home.

 

I did a simple test to try to verify if there are advantages to work with the correct color range:

 

2 identical photos, except one at 4300 Kelvin (left) and one at 3400 (right side).. One parameter is also different the speed: 1/60 sec  and 1/20. Lower degrees needs a longer shutter speed.

 

Are there advantages to work and see more accurate colors? I would say that the answer is yes. More accurate colors also means more accurate details. The same way the more light the more details we can see, there is also another variable which can increase the amount of details,: the color range.

 

Here is another example: During the construction stage, I shoot some photos. At the end, I also shoot some global views. Then I examine the photos results on a computer screen. By having more accurate color, I can see more accurately the details and easily see where corrections are needed.

 

Strangely enough, the first tool a new model maker will buy is probably some kind of saws. There are many ways to make the task much easier for the aspiring model maker and they are not all tools. Before beginning to work, there are 2 tools that I would absolutely want to have: an electric height table "to work at the good height". and few LED light to easily see what I am doing.

Capture d’écran, le 2021-11-28 à 15.34.54.jpg

Using a tripod with cable release is very important if you want to create a steady picture.

Having the lights at the same setting and placing even more important.
Something I learned to be very helpful.

This along with press release or timer.
Never touch the camera trigger to shoot your picture! It will be become blurry!
 

 

Please, visit our Facebook page!

 

Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics 
593661798_Keepitreal-small.jpg.f8a2526a43b30479d4c1ffcf8b37175a.jpg

Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan

Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS

Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey

Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry

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3 hours ago, Nirvana said:

Using a tripod with cable release is very important if you want to create a steady picture.

 

By example, when I use the Go pro inside a model ship, the camera rest anywhere it can stands well and the trigger is made by a phone.

Inside, I never use a cable release. Mainly, I use Canon cameras. Canon delivers a program to control the camera at distance. There are also other programs which do it even better like ON1 photo raw, Capture one and so on and you can change many parameters directly from the Laptop. When taking a photo directly from the camera, it is hard to see the details of the photos because of the very small screen of the camera, it is easier to control the photos from the laptop screen or even better from a desktop computer. When I take photos during the construction, I hold the camera and try to adjust ISO as much as possible without going too far and increase the speed as fast as possible for the lens opening.

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Many cameras and mobile phones have either an infra-red or a Bluetooth connection, allowing to 'fire' them without touching them. The respective remote controls can be bought on ebay for a few Euros/Dollars/etc. My came together with a 'selfie-stick', which I hasten to add, I bought because it converts into a light tripod for the mobile phone. 

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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