Incorporation of fishes

[DaveBaxt]

I am currently getting closer to doing my deck planking and I am thinking of incorporating the above. I have a German link which although explains the process ,for me it is a bit vague and I am hoping some one has a more detailed approach. https://www.modellskipper.de/Tipps/Tipps_zu_Decks_und_Beplankung/Einarbeiten_von_Fischungen

 

I am also wondering how accurate this fishing is in terms of , is it commonly used on vessels such as the HMS bark Endeavour 1758 or whould it be used for a different period of ship or is it purely for ornamental value. Best regards Dave

Edited September 10, 2021 by DaveBaxt

[Morgan]

Dave,

 

There is no evidence of this on the surviving historic ships in the UK.  I’ve looked at the remaining original decks of Victory, Trincomalee and Unicorn and they do not ‘joggle’ in to the margin planks.  They simply run-out and are butted against the waterway / margin plank at whatever angle they intersect it.

 

The use of fishes was used later in the 19th Century, however some modellers do this for aesthetic purposes.

 

In my view it would be inaccurate, and given the Endeavour was a collier it is unlikely they would have spent the time and effort.

 

It is of course your choice.

 

Gary

[druxey]

Joggling, as it is usually termed, was an innovation later in the 19th century. Earlier ships usually had tapered and curved strakes of planking on the decks.

 

Fishing was a term applied to splinting a 'sprung' or split mast using a spare spar or spars as available. A spar would be applied to each side of the damaged mast and lashed on with ropes as a temporary repair.

[DaveBaxt]

Thanks for correcting me in what these deck planks are called Joggling and now appreciate that it would be incorrect in doing this to the HMS Bark Endeavour and so will not carry this out. However Morgan you do however mention that the planks do run out and butts up against a waterway and not just up to the bulwarks. So is this waterway a wider plank to incorperate the shape of the bulwark or is this also something which was not used until the 19th century  and should not  be considered  for the Bark Endeavour

   Again I would like to thank every one for your replies. Best regards Dave

[Morgan]

The waterway is a shaped plank that follows the bulwark as you say. In practice it was a heavier timber in section than the deck planks, and profiled not only to meet the deck planks, but also to marry up to the inner side planking, both above and below.
 

It would be slightly raised in comparison to the deck planks and transition down at the edge to meet the deck planks, at anything smaller than 1:48 you would not notice it being thicker. The purpose, in part, was to channel water to the scuppers rather than let it get into the ships side timbers.

 

Gary

[DaveBaxt]

3 hours ago, Morgan said:

The waterway is a shaped plank that follows the bulwark as you say. In practice it was a heavier timber in section than the deck planks, and profiled not only to meet the deck planks, but also to marry up to the inner side planking, both above and below.
 

It would be slightly raised in comparison to the deck planks and transition down at the edge to meet the deck planks, at anything smaller than 1:48 you would not notice it being thicker. The purpose, in part, was to channel water to the scuppers rather than let it get into the ships side timbers.

 

Gary

Once again thank you Gary As I have already got some planks twice as wide as the deck planks I would like to use them for the waterway. Ufortunately they are the same thickness but as the scale 1:64 , as you say should be able to get away with this. I  have already made a template of the deck so have an idea of the shape of the outside edge of the waterway but it would be even better if I had some idea which is the best way to lay the wider planks(waterway) in relation with the bulwarks or where to start Hope this makes sense. Best regards Dave

[Morgan]

Dave,

 

The Waterway followed the ships side in a continuous fashion, so is the only ‘plank’ to follow the run circumferentially of those sides as it were, as a regular margin feature.  Traditionally the joints were scarphed together.

 

They did not run across the stern or transom.

 

Personally I would work from the bow to the stern. To obtain the profile they may best be cut from a sheet as opposed to strip wood if available.

 

On the Victory for reference they are 12” wide, but I would expect Endeavour to be narrower. As a guide Victory’s main historic deck planking is 10” wide, that is 4mm @ 1:64.  Also for note the outermost 2 planks on each side of Victory these wider at 12” wide (5mm @ 1:64) which helps with the run-out of the planks.  Hopefully these measurements will allow you to work out dimensions relative to what the kit materials provide you with.

 

Gary

[Morgan]

The picture provided by Spyglass is a good example of the tapering and curving of the planks that Druxy mentioned, ignore the inner margin plank and joggling or cutting-in of the planks. On the Endeavour these would have been straight butt joints between the deck planks and the darker waterway.

 

Gary

[DaveBaxt]

Thanks guys for you responses and just as I thought I had the hang of this I have done some research on scarfed joints and all I could find is this previous post of which is a bit complicated for my taste. However I would imagine I could use a scarf joint without the hook bit which I have seen but can,t remember where. Also in the previous post there is a few options as to which and I personally think the top one in A looks  the best on a curved bulwark but not sure if this is acceptable. Any help with this would be appreciated. Best regards Dave

 

[DaveBaxt]

Spy glass Thank you once again for your help. But now I am confused as in your photo is what I thought was the Joggling and does not show the scarfing joints where th pieces of the waterway join together. Also I think what the seaman is standing on would be the waterway Please correct me if I have this wrong in anyway . Great photo by the way. Best regards Dave

[Morgan]

Dave,

 

I see you are also in the NE, a trip to the Trincomalee at Hartlepool could provide you with a wealth of information on Waterways and many other aspects.

 

Also the Pannet Park Museum and Captain Cook Museum at Whitby both have a wealth of model ships and related artefacts, many of which are period specific for the Endevour.  Not to mention the the Captain Cook and Staithes Heritage Centre / Museum at Staiths.

 

Gary

Edited September 11, 2021 by Morgan

[DaveBaxt]

Thank you for the above Everyone.  I have only recently been to see the Trincomlee but unfortunately I did not notice  the waterways as I was too busy looking at the rigging and other things. I definately need to take a trip to Whitby at some stage as I haven't been there for years and should be a bit less busy now the holidays are over. I can now see the scarf joints in the cap rail after take another look at the photo and if the water way is similar I will be happy with trying this out. Just for one more question if I may if the waterway is thicker could you not just use 0.5 thick wood and lay it on top of the planks? Although inaccurate will probably look the ok.  Best regards Dave

[Morgan]

Dave,

 

That would work, I’d just slightly round-over the inside edge by sanding rather than leave an angular edge.

 

In respect if any scarphs part of the waterway in reality sits under the side planking so you would not see a full scarph. This could make things easier to simulate if you go down that route.

 

Gary

[DaveBaxt]

I would just like to add another thank you to all who have contributed to this thread as it has become another very interesting subject . Like everything in the wonderful hobby not everything is as it first seems and always needs to be investigated. Hopefully my skills are at a level where I can put my new found knowledge into practice. Best regards Dave