John Allen Posted October 12, 2021 Share #1 Posted October 12, 2021 Appears I may be stuck with lead fittings with Mamoli CSS Aabama. Can they be properly treated other than primer or watered down white glue to slow down the degradation of the lead over the long run. Does this problem also plague Brittania metal fittings. Would wood or brass copies when feasible be better. Could not find Metal for dummies #2 at Amazon. mtaylor and thibaultron 2 Quote John Allen Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli On deck USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build Finished Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine Model Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted October 12, 2021 Share #2 Posted October 12, 2021 John, I would think that a clear coat of the organic solvent sort would buy you time, but if the "white glue" is PVA, that has the potential to be a disaster. The final product in lead disease is lead acetate -I believe. I am not sure how much if any acetate is in bookbinders PVA, but all other woodworkers PVA has as much acetic acid as 5% vinegar. My guess is that a PVA coat would accelerate the disintegration of a lead casting. The clear coat using lacquer et al. has the disadvantage of not being glass and thus allowing gases to migrate across it. A quick smell of vinegar tells you that acetic acid is partially a gas at RT. Canute, thibaultron and mtaylor 3 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snug Harbor Johnny Posted October 12, 2021 Share #3 Posted October 12, 2021 Lead (or more likely tin/lead) fittings will be soft and bendable. If primed on all surfaces (not sure which primer works best for tin/lead - but what is sold for cast military figures and 'flats' is obviously suitable), then painted with enamel (not acrylic) - they can last a long time without oxidation, since oxygen won't go through the coatings. I found a painted CW tin/lead soldier I cast as a boy over 50 years ago, and it is in perfect condition. Antique figures can be so found, as long as the coatings don't get scratched or chipped. Any lead in these figures has been banned for some time, so tin based 'pewters' have been used. 95/5 tin/antimony is "out" these days because of the antimony. Something like 2% copper is alloyed with tin ( to make Britannia metal), since pure tin degrades under freezing temperatures. (Napoleon's soldiers buttons fell apart on the road back from Moscow.) One can see 'Britannia metal' (tin-copper) plate wear over 200 years old on display in museums in excellent condition, whereas the cheaper stuff with lead go dark grey and can oxidize in high humidity. Conclusion ... Britannia metal is fine without painting for centuries - now I'm not talking about buried in soil, which will ruin anything other than gold (or platinum). Some kits have zinc metal castings, since anything with lead these days is a no-no. Zinc can likely take the same primer, although zinc chromate is the best. Some early zinc cast toy locomotives had zinc with contaminants and suffered from an internal degradation that caused them to crumble from the inside in spite of coatings. I'm talking about stuff from the 1920s and 30s. Since then, there are no reports of 'bad' zinc. Johnny catopower, mtaylor, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote Completed builds: Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allen Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted October 12, 2021 jaager-Johnny thanks mtaylor, Canute and thibaultron 3 Quote John Allen Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli On deck USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build Finished Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine Model Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted October 12, 2021 Share #5 Posted October 12, 2021 This is all you need to know about lead oxidization in ship models. Read it carefully, It's the "bible" on the subject. Nautical Research Journal - Vol 43 (thenrg.org) East Ender, druxey, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essayons Posted October 27, 2021 Share #6 Posted October 27, 2021 If you are able, cast your parts in Type R pewter (no lead). It flows well but it melts at 575 degrees F which will shorten your mold life. I believe archivists classify as some pewters as archive grade. thibaultron, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Builds: 1/200 Arizona (Trumpeter) using Eduard PE with extras FINISHED!!! 1/48 USS Oneida 1809 DLumberyard "kit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thibaultron Posted October 28, 2021 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2021 I read that copper plating the fittings will seal them. Also some flow thru ventalation in the display case helps. Completely sealing the model accelerates the problem. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Ron Thibault Shipjack Carrie Price from Pyro kit, with upgraded detailing and history. Going From A 2D Drawing To A 3D Printed Part Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOURADATOR Posted July 31, 2023 Share #8 Posted July 31, 2023 Hello dear new friends I'm new on this forum (from France) I received a Mamoli Britannia model, just splendid My issue is that I don't have the Instruction notice Any chance to find a Pdf or a scan somewhere ? Thank you for your support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted July 31, 2023 Share #9 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, MOURADATOR said: I'm new on this forum (from France) I received a Mamoli Britannia model, just splendid My issue is that I don't have the Instruction notice Any chance to find a Pdf or a scan somewhere ? Bonjour Moura, You should start a post in the plans section here at MSW as you are looking for plans for the Mamoli model Brittania, not the metal called britannia. More members will see your post there than here. https://modelshipworld.com/forum/13-discussions-for-ships-plans-and-project-research-general-research-on-specific-vessels-and-ship-types/ Did you contact the owner at Mamoli to get a set of plans? With the fire seven years ago, most everything was lost but Daniel Dusek is a member here and you can PM him to see if there are still any plans. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/13542-mamoli-model-kits-are-back/ Allan Edited July 31, 2023 by allanyed Canute, mtaylor and dvm27 3 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.