HMS Bounty rigging

[JayDee24ca]

Hi folks, this is my first post. I have been scouring the board over the past few months since finding this resource and have learned a lot. First, here is a bit of background. 18 month ago a neighbour gave me a complete assembled 1:98 Corell model of HMS Bounty, and for the past two winters it has been my pleasure to work build it. He bought it in 1979 and never built it, and knew of my enjoyment in woodworking, building and carpentry. It is my first attempt at model ship building, I recognise that this particular model is NOT a beginners model.

However, I have arrived at the point of starting the rigging, and have become stuck with the installation of the first blocks, on the bowsprit stays. In particular, the running of the lines through a single to a double block. On the attached photo, lines 266, 267, and 268 all utilize this formation. I am not able to understand how

lines run, and if they are tied off, and if they are, where? Are the lower lines, from the single blocks to the hull, fixed lines, as in anchored, and the upper lines meant to be adjusted? If so where are the upper adjustable lines tied off? Also, what is the sketch of the "noose" just to the right of them?

I am sorry I am not knowledgeable about this, but I have scoured the internet to find diagrams of this, and not found what I am looking for. I have ordered two books on rigging, which are recommended on this site, but won't see them until maybe late February. I would sure appreciate it if someone here would take mercy on me and help me out.

Thanks

John D

 

 

 

 

the

[Gregory]

           

 

This is the basic run of a single/double tackle..    The hooks might not be present for your purposes.

The stropping of the blocks might be simplified for the purpose of a model.

 

The noose is a simplified version of how it is tied to the stem.. Actual practice would have been some type of splice and seizings..

 

A book like Historic Ship Models would be a lot of help with some basic rigging..

 

During a specific time period, how things were seized and tied off would not have changed a lot..

For the purpose of modeling, just making it look neat is a good place to start.

 

47 minutes ago, JayDee24ca said:

If so where are the upper adjustable lines tied off?

Not sure what you are referring to, unless it is the running end of the tackle..

It would be handled similar to the lanyard on a deadeye arrangement..

 

 

 

[Gregory]

Nice Bounty Tim

 

I was reluctant to open up a can of worms by suggesting the block tackles on the bob stays are wrong for the period.

 

Hopefully  John will find there is a lot of help available here..

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

Gregory, go ahead and open the can. 😀  I think hearts would be more appropriate for the period but Bounty may have had rigging that was anomalous to rated vessels.

Allan

[Gregory]

I don't see Bligh going  anomalous on us...😀

[JayDee24ca]

Boy, thanks for all the help! So then, what I gather is that although there are blocks involved, they are tied off securely. I had thought that the running end of the line would have been tied off in a manner and position that it could be quickly put to use. With the information you all have provided, I should have no problem moving ahead, thank you.

The books I ordered are The Art of Rigging, (which I later found in free PDF format) and Rigging Period Model Ships. Hopefully they will be of some use to me. I doubt I will finish this ship this winter, but I am already looking for my next one! 

JD

[Jim Lad]

The bowsprit rigging is 'standing' rigging that doesn't need constant adjusting or altering, so the running ends of the tackles are secured.  Those stays may need occasional adjustment so they're not fixed at both ends.

 

John

[allanyed]

IF possible JD, I would suggest getting Lees' Masting and Rigging.  It covers a lot of years and is explicit in words and drawings for all rates of ship.  I don't know about The Art of Rigging, but Rigging Period Ship models is based on one ship, Melampus (36)  thus there may be discrepancies with Bounty, a much smaller ship.

Allan

[JayDee24ca]

Thank you Allen for your recommendation for Lees Masting and Rigging. Unfortunately it will have to wait for now. The cheapest used I could locate was 70 USD plus shipping, on ABE books. Maybe I can hint at it to my better half for my birthday....

[allanyed]

Do add it to your B'day list.   I reference this book continually when doing any rigging on rated  vessels and even more when rigging questions come up here at MSW.   Towards the back of the book are a series of ratios for mast and spar sizes and every rope on ships of various sizes from 1625 to 1860.    The Danny Vada spread sheets here at MSW can also be used for sizing in this period as they is based on the Lees ratios.  The only exception is between 1670 and 1711 where he apparently used the wrong formula so none of the sizes are correct.

Allan

[Gregory]

14 hours ago, allanyed said:

IF possible JD, I would suggest getting Lees' Masting and Rigging.  It covers a lot of years and is explicit in words and drawings for all rates of ship.  I don't know about The Art of Rigging, but Rigging Period Ship models is based on one ship, Melampus (36)  thus there may be discrepancies with Bounty, a much smaller ship.

Allan

Perhaps I should check before writing this, but can't get to my Lees' before tonight, but doesn't Lees just refer to dates and not the size of the ship?

So in this case we would be looking at 1787 for Bounty and 1785 for Melampus.

 

The main thing to keep in mind about the Peterson book is that he documented what he observed on a model, and can only be considered reliable when compared to a reliable source such as Lees'.

 

What I like about Petersson is that there is an index with every line on the ship, which you can easily find  in the book, and then compare with another source if need be.  Another point for the Petersson book is that he documents all the belaying  points, which again, are only accurate as far as the model goes.

 

[allanyed]

Hi Gregory,  

In addition to time periods, Lees refers to various rates for lower masts lengths and diameters, bowsprit, and rigging for the lower yards, top yards and cross jack.   Vadas correctly carried this through in his spread sheets based on Lees' ratios (except as many know for 1670-1711 where every figure is wrong as he did not use the proper formula)

Allan

Edited January 25, 2022 by allanyed

[AON]

Good morning John D.

I've looked in both The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War by James Lee (pgs 49 and 50) and Rigging Period Model Ships by Lennarth Petersson (pg 20) and both suggest the Bobstays were rigged differently than your plan.

 

Rather than a block and tackle system they suggest a collar (strop) around the bowsprit up against cleats and utilizing a deadeye block or closed heart (before 1840) per Lee. He suggests the deadeye block was preferred.  The rope feeds through the hole in the Stem and both ends are eye spliced.  The other end near the bowsprit would have another matching deadeye block or closed heart.  A lanyard is wrapped around through both deadeyes to haul the bobstay tight and is then secured by possibly wrapped around the lanyard loops and tied off with a couple hitches.

 

Petersson shows a closed heart but Lee says the deadeye was preferred.

 

And this is the problem with kit plans versus historical accuracy.  If you use a block and tackle as your plan suggests, I believe the running end normally would be secured somewhere accessible to the crew and secured there as opposed to wrapping it about the tackle loops and securing with hitches.

 

Now as the captain you get to chose what to do.  No one will question you.

 

 

[JayDee24ca]

Thanks Alan for your information, and for promoting me to Captain! I can certainly see the benefit of having a good library to provide all these insights. I think though, that as this is my first attempt at building, I am going to go with what Corell has provided in the kit. For one thing, I have not been provided with any hearts in the kit, and have only a prescribed number of blocks. I know this build will not be historically correct, but it is giving me experience for subsequent builds. I've been looking online at the innumerable photos of various parts of the real vessel docked in GB, and it is pretty obvious there are huge discrepancies in this model.

Cheers!

[AON]

Don't let the rank go to your head.

We all know the spouse is the Admiral.

😇

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, JayDee24ca said:

I am going to go with what Corell has provided in the kit.

I think that is a great decision..

 

Too many kits never get finished because the builder gets overwhelmed with " what is proper"..

 

Gaining experience and knowledge  will be your greatest reward.

 

I hope you will share some of your work in the future..