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Wasa by md1400cs - FINISHED - Corel - 1:75


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Frank,


 


As you know..I have a folder of all of your sails work. Hoping to emulate your work, as well a Karl's, and (Ulises wonderful rigging). Not sure I can get to all of your levels of work. Wood is my friend, and I so enjoy those parts of the build, but cloth, and rigging, Hmmm? I will see about that next new challenge. 


 


Though I do have great builder's whom I am following (:-) and BTW my build is going soo slow (;-(


 


Your ship is so beautiful,Thanks for following mine as well.


 


Michael


Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Dave,

 

Thanks for your kind post.

 

PS: I'm having a problem receiving emails from the many builds that I follow (including responses to this build)

Mark T, has led me to a thread that deals with this issue. It seems that other members are also having the same issues. I'm reading through it to see if there is a fix.

 

FYI     http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9808-no-mails-for-me-robin-b/page-3

 

Regards,

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Randy, 

 

Thanks for your very nice comment, much appreciated.

 

PS Regarding my post just above (email issue)

 

FYI: I  changed my MSW email from AOL to my gmail. Now ALL notices started posting again.

 

Michael

Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Looking really nice Michael, this is such a detailed ship....blows me away every time I check it out...

John

Current Current Builds:

US Brig Niagara on my website

FINISHED BUILD LOGS:

New Bedford Whaleboat - page on my Morgan Website:  http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com/whaleboat-build-log-by-john-fleming.html

C.W. Morgan - Model Shipways 1:64 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1785-cw-morgan-by-texxn5-johnf-ms-164-kit/

USS Constitution - Revell 1:96 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1796-uss-constitution-by-texxn5-johnf-revell-196-kit/

 

website US Brig Niagara Model http://www.niagaramodel.com

website Charles W Morgan Model http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com

website PROXXON DISCOUNT TOOL STORE http://proxxontoolsdiscount.com

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John,

 

Thanks for your very kind post. Well, when it comes to details your current (almost completed) build log also blows me away (:-)

 

MIchael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Mates,

 

Thanks for all of your nice comments, stopping by, and "likes" always so appreciated !

 

--------------------------

 

I decided to re-do the six lines under the platform. The knots were weak and out of scale. Decided that black sewing thread would “disappear” better. But now;

 

going through a frustrating bit. Struggling with my first attempt at actually mounting rigging. And to think this is only a very small bit of the first section OMG..(:-)

 

Having a hard time finding a proper way of seizing the shrouds, attaching the upper deadeyes as well as their corresponding ropes. I have looked at other build logs for advice, but still can’t get out of my thinking “box” to allow for a more pleasant experience.

 

Then later as I was starting to attach the first of the six shrouds I realized that the mast was too short (See pic), and that the wood cap that connects the second mast was also too low (too close the platform base) Grrrrrrr.

 

I looked at the Corel sheet for wood cap fit location (wrong!! Corel) and then failed to, at least, pay more attention to the length the second mast should have been. I will be more attentive with the other masts. Last pic is 1/10th the way it should look more-or-less

 

So in closing not too “happy” right now, so not sitting for extended lengths of time. Hmmm.

 

Well of to Berkeley next week to see our son, and his wife’s family for the holidays. They all enjoy good single malts music, and good tequila  

 

Cheers everyone - do enjoy your holidays as well 

 

Michael

 

post-735-0-04286400-1450048821_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-80465600-1450048854_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-75799100-1450048868_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-19701500-1450048915_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-80726700-1450048959_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-90589500-1450048973_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-50868800-1450049015_thumb.jpeg

Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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I can see where rigging would tend to be frustrating Michael, but maybe after all of the "to do" of the Holidays is over, things will relax enough to "attack" it again with fresh eyes. I hope you and yours have a safe and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. :)  

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

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Hi Michael,

 

Happy holidays to you as well!

 

Glad that you are taking a few days away from your build. When things get frustrating for me, I like to walk away for a couple of days. Things are usually better and clearer when I get back to the build!

Am a bit ahead of you on my build, so if you need to compare notes, just let me know!!

 

Frank

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Hi mates,

 

Thanks for the likes..George you are certainly right (:-)   cheers enjoy as well

 

Frank you are certainly are ahead of me. You will probably finish two more before this one sees its completion. I have looked back on your techniques and WILL use the wire to hold a gap for the shroud deadeyes when I get to the other masts. It's a known technique that you explained well. Thanks.

 

There was just a small amount of progress before turning off the lights last night. Feeling a bit better with all of this NEW stuff.I'll post next with a real update (:-)..

 

Regards,

 

Michael

post-735-0-53357700-1450204381_thumb.jpg

Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Mates,

 

Need some advice. Starting to attach the foremast shrouds before locating the lower platform. But looking at a rigging book I noticed these Burton Pendants. Did a Google search and it seems that they were also on some 16th century. ships.

 

Any help would be appreciated regarding adding these to this build. All of the rigging plans that I have for the Vasa don't seem to include any of these linee.

 

Thanks in advance. I will post an update soon.

 

Regards...

post-735-0-63055100-1452487982_thumb.jpg

post-735-0-01047000-1452487995_thumb.jpg

Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Hi Michael

 

According to my clever books and the web the burton pendants were a tackle which was mainly used to set up the shrouds. I believe they were set on masts or topmasts(!) probably only where no mast tackle was rigged.

 

Lees states:

Burton pendants were fitted one on each side of the mast. A single block was spliced in the end up to 1780, after then a thimble was used. They were about the same length as the pendants on the lower mast.

Burton falls prior to 1780 had the standing part spliced round the pendant at the head of the pendant block. The hauling part rove through a single hook block and back through the pendant block; it was usually made fast to a deadeye or shroud.

When a thimble was used on the pendant, the fall was only hooked to the pendant when required; at other times the pendant was seized to the shrouds.

 

This concerns the topmast burton pendants but I think you could use the information also for lower masts. However the question remains if the version with the thimble in the end of the pendant is the correct one for the construction year of the Vasa. On the other hand you have to consider that Lees mainly writhes about English man of war.

 

And it seems that never more than one burton pendant on each side per mast was rigged.

 

 

post-504-0-04121300-1452521249_thumb.jpg

This picture from the web shows the use of the burton pendant.

 

Cheers

peter

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Mast tackle pendants were used for more than just setting up the shrouds.  They were also set up for lifting heavier items.  For the lower masts they were usually in pairs, two on each side.  They are the first to go over the mast.   On the fore mast the aftermost pendant is a little longer than the other, and on the mainmast the forward pendant will be a little longer.  The pendants thickness should be the same as the shrouds.  At the ends of the pendants was fitted either a fiddle block or a double block.  The pendant is secured through the strop of the block with a throat and a round seizing.  The fiddle block will be on the shorter of the two pendants and the tackle will run in 4 parts to a single block with a hook.  The double block will be on the other pendant and will run in 5 parts to a double block with a hook.

 

Topmasts may have one pendant per side.  Or they may have been omitted altogether.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Regards,

Edited by popeye2sea

Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! 

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal

Completed Build Amerigo Vespucci

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Popeye is right about the mast tackles. I tried to find out if there and what was the difference between burton pendants with tackles and mast tackles.

 

In the web (babylon online dictionary) you find the following definition:

Burton pendants Definition from Sports Dictionaries & Glossaries

Boating & Sailing Dictionaries

maritime&shipping™

The first piece of rigging which goes over the topmast head, to which is hooked a tackle, to set up the topmast shrouds.

 

 

Going through Lees 'The masting and rigging of English ships of war 1625 - 1860' again I see that:

 

- Mast tackles were two a side on lower masts for ships of more than 50 guns, one per side for smaller ships.

They were installed on main and fore mast

 

- Burton pendants and tackles were installed, one per side on fore and main topmasts, sometimes on lower mizzen masts and very seldom on mizzen topmasts (only up to 1650).

 

 

What is shown on your rigging plan are therefore not burton pendants but regular mast tackle pendants. If you want to rig the complete tackle with runners and falls you find the necessary information e.g. in Lees book.

 

Phew, Cheers

peter

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Henry and Peter thanks to both of you for your so well detailed responses. I also very much appreciate the links. Very helpful indeed.

 

It appears that the Vasa did infact have these as part of its standing rigging. Fred Hocker was also kind enough to respond to my question at the Vasa specific site. His response:

 

 

We don't have any direct evidence for burton pendants one way or the other, but we do probably have mast tackles (a 17th-century item that served the same purpose as burtons). These consist of a fiddle block on a long pendant, usually rigged as a pair on each side on the fore and mainmasts. The pendant rope is the same size as the shrouds, and made up the same way. These are looped over the masthead before the shrouds, and so form the first two tiers on the bolster.

Most of the early 17th-century rigging inventories I have read list mast tackles rather than burtons, but some list both!

Fred Hocker
Vasa Museum

 

So I can now start these shrouds and also first add mast tackles without the eyelet but with the blocks as both of you had suggested. Again thanks Peter and Henry (Mark - good idea as well)

 

Thanks to everyone for also stopping by.

 

Cheers,

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Mates,

 

So after getting Fred Hocker’s confirmation regarding the Vasa having mast tackles with fiddle blocks I used some single blocks to “make” four blocks.

 

These four blocks will remain static attached to shrouds (without lines inserted) so wanted to add a bit of detail to the “pulleys” within. Will need four more for the main mast as well.

 

I used a drill bit and sort of honed within the blocks to make the pulleys appear more circular. The diff. is somewhat noticeable. Had lines been strung through these blocks I would not have done this extra bit of work.

 

Finished up the lower foremast cap and deadeyes. Added the shrouds as well as the middle foremast staff.

 

Now working on the four other needed platforms. Doing them all at once.

 

Thanks for dropping by as well as your advice.

 

Cheers,

 

post-735-0-73606000-1453339709_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-03595400-1453339744_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-97807700-1453339756_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-44004500-1453339771_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-33785200-1453339798_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-79842400-1453339809_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-04924500-1453339823_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-47519800-1453339835_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-15816500-1453339847_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-95052500-1453339859_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-33074500-1453339874_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Nice job on the fiddle-blocks, Michael !!

CaptainSteve
Current Build:  HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft)

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Frank, Capt. Steve & the "likes" click, thank you for dropping in and posting. Always very much appreciated.

 

Moving forward at a snail's pace (:-). Though we are finally expecting "El Niño" storms, so I may be in-house a bit more.

Frank!! I'm sure that you are already, this weekend, buried in snow?

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Hi Michael

 

Wonderful work!

 

But shouldn't the fiddle blocks hang the other way around? Then the line through the upper pulley could run free of the one through the lower. :huh:

 

Cheers

peter

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Fine work on the mast pendants and shrouds, but Peter is right, the fiddle blocks should be seized in so that the larger block is above the smaller.

 

Regards,

Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! 

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal

Completed Build Amerigo Vespucci

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Peter, (Henry, George)

 

Thanks for your constructive, and helpful post. Very much appreciated.

 

I am fairly comfortable with my building skills that have imprroved, BUT I am an unsophisticated novice otherwise. These blocks are a good example of my lack of knowledge. For all-intents-and purposes  this is my first build that requires rigging knowledge, especially for three masts.

 

Mates, please don't refrain from helpful postings of "fixes" for my errors. I enjoy learning about all of these important aspects of this hobby.

 

These fiddle blocks will be easily reversed. Thanks!

 

I also received a very kind PM from another excellent builder who suggested, rightfully so (I've since learned as well), that the deadeyes attached to the bowsprit mast cap are, in fact, too big. They should be about half of the diameter of the mast for a given location (again very much appreciated constructive information)  THANKS "J"......

 

BUT- Hmmm, That would be too much work to fix. The Corel kit included deadeyes in three sizes. I, ignorantly, used the middle size, leaving the small ones for the upper platforms. Hmmm--again.

 

Though now this obvious error will grate at me. I may eventually need to dis-assemble the cap and replace the deadeyes with after market purchased pieces.

 

Sorry--got a bit wordy here, Again thanks for following along AND thanks for the help.

 

OH and one more thing. Regarding shroud and line sizes and diameter I'm fishing in the dark (:-)

 

Sincerely,

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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So I did some frustrating research regarding deadeye size related to mast diameter (post just above)

 

Pic #1 Corel part number for that mast

Pic # 2 Corel measurements for that part

Pic # 3 Smallest kit included deadeye

Pic # 4 Smallest deadeye next to installed mast part number 237

 

So in order to stay within scale I would need to double the diameter of mast part 237

or

source a deadeye of apprx. 1 1/2 mm diameters.

 

Looked at several retail sites. The smallest deadeyes seem to be 3mm, which is what I installed.

SO I'm leaving this bit as-is. This new knowledge will be useful as I continue.

 

Though for sure the smaller deadeyes would have been a better fit.

 

Cheers,

 

post-735-0-54104200-1453498360_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-82448000-1453498372_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-85550900-1453498387_thumb.jpgpost-735-0-89249900-1453498401_thumb.jpg

Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Regarding line sizes.  The same type of formula as for the deadeyes holds true for the rigging.  Usually the main stay is the largest line on the ship and it will have a circumference equal to half the greatest diameter of the main mast.  Or stated another way its diameter will be approx. 1/6 of the diameter of the main mast.

 

All of the other rigging is a percentage of the main stay.

 

Fore stay = 4/5 of the main stay

Main shrouds  and main topmast stay= 1/2

Fore shrouds, fore topmast stay, mizzen stay = 2/5

Main topmast and mizzen shrouds = 1/4

Fore topmast shrouds, fore and main topgallant stay, and mizzen topmast stay = 1/5

Shrouds of these last three = 1/6

 

More details for other parts of the rigging can be found in "The Rigging of Ships in the Age of the Spritsail Topsail 1600 - 1720", R.C. Anderson

Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! 

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal

Completed Build Amerigo Vespucci

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Henry,

 

Thank you for your very knowledgeable assistance. So appreciated. I very much enjoy learning about this "at their time" amazing state of the art technology.

 

It always always reminds me of, when I was working in the UK, (though my home is in the US), traveling across the Atlantic (back and forth) at 37,000 feet drinking champagne in a flying machine listening to music from my portable CD player (antique) looking down at the choppy Atlantic Ocean thinking, "omg they could never imagine today's amazing transportation".  

 

But today We can easily think of  "Beam me up Scotty" And that idea is, today, half a century ago (;-)

 

 

Yes I droned on, but love today (;-).....

 

Again thanks !!

 

Michael

Edited by md1400cs

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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Hi Michael, just catching up on your log. Really looking good. Sounds like some frustration setting in. Your detail is incredible as usual. Have a good one!

John

John

Current Current Builds:

US Brig Niagara on my website

FINISHED BUILD LOGS:

New Bedford Whaleboat - page on my Morgan Website:  http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com/whaleboat-build-log-by-john-fleming.html

C.W. Morgan - Model Shipways 1:64 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1785-cw-morgan-by-texxn5-johnf-ms-164-kit/

USS Constitution - Revell 1:96 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1796-uss-constitution-by-texxn5-johnf-revell-196-kit/

 

website US Brig Niagara Model http://www.niagaramodel.com

website Charles W Morgan Model http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com

website PROXXON DISCOUNT TOOL STORE http://proxxontoolsdiscount.com

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Greg and John,

 

Thanks for your kind comments.

 

Also appreciate the Like This clicks, and also mates just looking in. 

 

Frank, yes those are Chuck's blocks at Syren (along with 100% of all rigging)

 

John, yup a bit of frustration here and there - certainly par for the course, but the learning is really encouraging.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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