HMC Sherbourne 1763 by tkay11 - FINISHED – Caldercraft – Scale 1:64 - A Novice’s Build

[tkay11]

Nice to know you can pop over from Canada, David! I was last in the NMM a couple of years back when there was really only one gallery of models of the period. I'll have another look in August. Thanks for the tips about the mill. I can get the Proxxon from Germany at around £220 including delivery, which gives me a fair amount to buy bits and a dividing head.

 

By the way I asked about the milling with a drill press because that's what I tried doing with my small Proxxon drill press while holding the head firmly in position. It works to a limited extent, but showed me the value of having a calibrated vertical feed.

 

If you come over to the UK again and doing anything ship-wise send me a PM.

 

Tony

[Siegfried]

Helle Tony,

 

Still have seen your progress on your Sherbourne during the last months. I espescially like your job you did on the small cutter! In my former blog on the older MSW I had an in-depth discussion about a small cutter or a 16"/14" jawl on it. I also have planned to scratch Building 14" jawl for the Sherbourne as it would be enough space for it on the deck. However, the blog disapeared MSW did the switch to 2.0.

 

Your cutter is a real inspiration and I do really like your way for going on with adding some scratch builded details.

 

Am keen to see your further progress,

Daniel

[tkay11]

What a delight to see you back, Daniel! Your build on MSW1.0 was such an inspiration to me that I feel quite proud that you've been able to enjoy anything I've done, and I was really missing your input. I am sure a lot of people would love to see your old log rebuilt on MSW2.0 if you by any chance have it stored on your computer. I remember you and Dirk having lots of very interesting conversations about the build as you were each at about the same stage. If you don't have the old blog stored in any way, it'll be great just to see you start again from where you are now.

 

Building the ship's boat was for me a real delight as it showed me the joys of planning and building it without pre-formed parts of any kind. It has given me the courage and interest to do more of that in future once I have built a few more of the basic skills around other aspects of the model.

 

I too am keen to see my further progress! For the last few months, though, I have been overwhelmed with work. However, the bulk of that work is now finished and I'll be back to tinkering away at the build fairly soon -- as long as I'm not landed with more work, that is!

 

Tony

[Siegfried]

Hello Tony,

 

No, unfortunately I have no copies of the older blog. All what I have are the pictures, indeed. A lot of good information disapeared in the mist of time. Like all of those proud ships we are going to keep alive by building their models.

 

Friendly spoken, I did no work on my Sherbourne since two years. Next step should be the creation of the carriages for the 3 pounders. Last year I have started a scratch build model of the HM Colonial Schooner for Port Jackson and have written a blog too. But how the story goes, even this model has never seen any rigging yet as I have started my own consultancy company last year and in the same time I spend much more time in my music studio. Also my planned trip to Hartlepool this I had to cancel. Clients first. Time seems to be the most precious thing we have. I am sure all of us are planning to build a little armada but it will be never afloat because of missing time. Too bad. All this beautiful models we could have in our bookshelf.

 

After watching Dirk's blog about his magnificient Syren and your posts about your jawl, inspiration comes over to finish on my Sherbourne the port hole lids and the gun carriages untill end of this month. If it works, I will reopen my blog and hope for further encourage discussions.

 

Cheers,

Daniel

Edited August 14, 2013 by Siegfried

[tkay11]

I'm delighted you're thinking of starting up again, Daniel -- as, I am sure, will be many other members of this forum. Last night I started up again on by making single blocks and figuring out how best to put the rope straps and hooks on them. It was such a joy to get back to it after such a long time of intensive work. I've noticed that quite a few members have to leave the ship modelling for long periods of time, but that's the joy of the hobby: it's something that you can pick up again whenever the other pressures in life are reduced. That's what a hobby is for, isn't it?

 

When you do come to start your log again, don't be worried by just posting the pictures that you have. Quite a few others have done the same when they re-built their own logs, and some were able to add a few words of explanation. I am sure you have seen Kester's log (Stockholm Tar) of his Sherbourne which is almost entirely in retrospect -- and he says he's thought of a lot more to say as a result!

 

Tony

[Gregor]

I can only agree with you, Tony - I too would dearly love to see Daniels pictures again.

Dreaming far ahead the last few days, in the vast collection of the NMM I've found several pictures of British cutters with gun port lids, the most beautiful was the oil painting of the cutter Fly (1779), bigger than our Sherbourne. They are all different from the one shown on the original plan, so I'm really curious to see which type of lid Daniel will choose. I'm looking forward to see his work - and yours, too, Tony!

Thanks and greetings to both of you,

Gregor

Edited August 14, 2013 by Gregor

[tkay11]

Nice to get back to modelling after such a long break. I have 4 sets of activities to report on this month, not all of them as successful as I would wish, but lots of learning resulting – as one would wish.

 

Single blocks and stropping

 

I continued learning how to make blocks by focusing on the single blocks and preparing hooks and stropping for them (these ones, like the doubles I have made, are for the 3pdr cannon).

 

First off, continuing to develop skills with the table saw, I cut a groove in a 1.5mm strip of wood, marked off the block lengths using a compass, and sliced off the blocks using my Proxxon Mini-Drill with mini saw as before.

 

 

 

I then thought how to make the hooks. First attempt was to do so by making one from 0.5mm wire. Not too good. So I used the 0.3mm etched eyelets I had bought – the eyelet will hold the rope and the remainder will make the hook. After blackening I thought the result was acceptable. Of course, the hooks didn’t have eyelets in reality, but after several attempts at attaching a hook to a 2mm block I simply gave up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eyelets for breeching and shot racks

 

I then marked the bulwarks to accept the top ropes for the cannon. This was done by putting a strip of masking tape along the side, breaking through gunports, and using a marking stick to determine the height of the holes. I am leaving putting the eyelets into the bulwarks until I have the tackle ready.

 

 

 

The lower eyelets I determined to place in the shot racks. This proved to be my undoing as I clearly over-reached myself and created some very messy shot racks (it’s here that I yearned for a mill with a table as that would have allowed me to make the spacing for the shot very even, and the shot racks themselves consistent). I decided not to dismantle the shot racks and start all over again and live with the knowledge that I’ll have to do better next time.

 

First off the eyelets to go into the shot racks.

 

 

These are then attached to the shot racks. You’ll notice I put an extra board on the face of the shot racks. I took this idea from the AOTS book of the Cutter Alert which shows just this arrangement. I presumed that it was to give extra strength to the bolt holding the eyelet.

 

 

Another point to notice is that whereas on the Alert the shot racks are shown unbroken between the guns, if I had done this on the Sherbourne there would have been no way of getting the oars through the oar ports. That's why they are broken up in this way, with three shot on either side of each gun.

 

Jeer bitts

 

Following Stockholm Tar’s lead, I decided to embark on making jeer bitts. Probably just for the challenge. I still haven’t a clue how all the rigging is going to be attached, but I thought I’d make the jeer bitts as I suppose the jeer is there to help raise and lower yards. If anyone wants to put me right on this, please do!

 

I used the plans for the jeer bitts from the AOTS book on the cutter Alert.

 

I started by cutting 4mm square lengths from old bits from the kit. Then I drilled a 1mm hole to hold the rotating cylinder.

 

 

 

To make the cogs at either end of the cylinder, I cut a 1mm strip of brass and hammered a chisel into it at regular intervals. I then made a cylinder from the strip by folding it so that the chiselled edge was outwards. Well, it’s not very cog-like but at least it gives a rough idea!

 

I painted the cylinder red ochre, as most of the deck fittings will be painted.

 

 

 

 

The crank handles were made from 2mm brass tubing (which holds 1mm brass rod). This was to hold the rod which goes through the cylinder. To do this two lengths of 0.5mm brass rod were silver-soldered together to make the handle, and this assembly was in turn silver soldered to the tubing. The tubing was then sliced off with a jeweller’s saw.

 

You’ll notice from the final picture that I remade the bitts so that the tops were square. The earlier version had rounded tops which I made as a result of mistaken interpretation of the drawings.

 

 

 

 

 

Swivel Guns

 

As have many others, I really didn’t like the swivel guns in the kit. However once the cascabel at the end was cut off they are at least the right length. So I decided to modify the barrels by removing the trunions, drilling out a 1mm hold to hold new brass trunnions, drilling holes in the barrel mouths to at least make them look as though they could have shot put into them, and making a small handle at the rear for the gunner to operate them.

 

To start with I made the swivel mountings by bending 1mm brass rod round the tip of round-nosed pliers.

 

 

I then made sure the mounting would lie flat by holding it against the cutting disk of my Proxxon Mini-Drill.

 

 

That 2mm brass tubing then was filed flat on one surface, and the swivel mounting silver-soldered to it.

 

In order to hold the mounting firmly to the rod I modified an alligator clip by filing down the teeth and mounting two brass plates to the sides with epoxy adhesive.

 

 

By the way, for silver soldering I use a lovely little self-lighting butane gas torch that was only £5 at a local store. I had previously used a pencil torch that had to be lit with a match or a candle every time and held only enough for one piece of soldering.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's it for now. With luck I'll be able to do some more modelling in late December.

 

Tony

[PS edit: I don't know why there's this extra shot added to my post below. It says it's a thumbnail, but I don't know how to edit it out!]

Edited November 2, 2013 by tkay11

[CAd My Fingers]

Tony, thanks for sharing--everything really looks great! Well done!

 

Jay

[Gregor]

Tony, this gives me a very welcome dose of motivation (like you, I had some difficulties aligning my cannon balls in the shot rack, among other problems…). I admire your jeer bitts very much!

Thanks,

Gregor

[tkay11]

Thanks, Jay and Gregor.

 

Gregor: I must admit to being quite dissatisfied by my attempts at the shot racks. I've just had a look at your new post on this and yours are much better. I was intrigued by the fact that you have managed the issue with the oar ports quite easily, so I'll take a few of your ideas and see if I can dismantle mine. The problem is that my shot racks are all glued in with epoxy. I also do agree with your shortening of the sliding hatch. I had not taken in the fact that the Alert is a bigger ship than the Sherbourne. Luckily, that hatch is not yet fixed so I can remake it quite easily.

 

Then, looking at my cannon I've been thinking of doing them all over again. I think that's part of the problem of being a member of a forum such as this where constant exposure to the wonderful skills some have hides the fact that they too went through similar learning experiences. The motto has to be 'practice makes perfect' -- or at least a bit better.

 

Glad you like the jeer bitts, though! I really did enjoy improving my silver-soldering skills with them and the swivel guns.

 

Tony

[Stockholm tar]

Tony,

 

Very nice work on your shot racks, swivel guns and jeer bitts!

 

Yes, I think the bitts were used to help with hoisting the yards, gaff etc. I have an idea my handles might be a little short, but also wondered if there was a removeable extension piece, both to obtain more purchase and to use more men. I don't really know though. I also have my handles set as you do, but have since thought they might be better set at a wider angle to each other, to maintain momentum?

 

I liked your changes to the swivel guns, especially the supports. They look really good. Have you any thoughts as to the number of the after swivels? I reduced mine to two, since I thought it looked a bit crowded with three.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Stockholm tar

[tkay11]

Thanks, Kester. As you know, you were the inspiration for the jeer bits, so I have to thank you for that as well! Yes, I might well reduce the number of swivel guns as you have done. I've had a good look at yours and agree it gives more space for the gunners. I'll always be happy to opt out of the arms race.

 

Tony

[Blue Ensign]

Love the innovation you bring to your modelling Tony, great 'how to' on the swivel mounts.

 

I recall reading somewhere that there were more swivel mount posts than swivel guns allocated to a vessel, they were just moved around to suit.

 

It is a fashion even on contemporary models to show the rails festooned with swivel guns, as I have done with Pegasus, but half of them will be removed  eventually.

 

B.E.

[Gregor]

B.E., you got me thinking and speculating. I can imagine that swivel guns could have been stored below deck sometimes. At least they should be properly secured when not in use. On many models we find fully rigged and secured guns, while the swivels are “flopping around” – injuries waiting to happen.

Gregor

PS: See, Tony, now I’m posting in your log (I apologize – but let’s do that more often  )

[tkay11]

Thanks, B.E. One of the great pleasures of this hobby is working out how to mimic a particular part at scale. Perhaps I should also have shown the failed earlier attempts at swivel mountings. Now you say it, I remember a discussion from MSW1 saying that not all the swivel mounts had guns. Can't remember who said it or in what context. It certainly adds to Kester's logic concerning the crowding of the swivels.

 

Gregor: no problem at all. To my mind a build log is there exactly for this kind of purpose -- to explore the possibilities, problems and interest of the particular model ship we try to build. As a result others who build the same ship have an opportunity to benefit from, laugh at or contribute to the discussion. The builder's a kind of facilitator who prompts the discussion by showing his/her progress, thoughts and methods. This facilitator also benefits hugely as a result. I'm in the very lucky position of still being able to modify a lot of my model in line with the experience of others as I've assembled hatches, blocks, rings, cannon and bitts but not stuck them on yet (only the shot racks might be a problem to remove). So please, always, feel free to to cross-talk. And I'm grateful for your open invitation on your build as well -- should I ever be in the unlikely position of having something new to contribute!

 

I'm now ensconced in Northern Nigeria for three weeks of planning meetings, so I'll be well away from modelling for the moment but will be reading the forum regularly (as long as the internet connections stay up, that is).

 

Thanks very much for all the continued support!

Tony

[Blue Ensign]

It's just come to mind where I read about swivel numbers - it was in The Sailing Frigate by Robert Gardiner.

 

In writing about a  contemporary model of a Sixth rate 20 gun ship of around 1720 he comments:-

 

There were more stocks than guns (the established number was 6) but the modelmaker has chosen to mount a swivel in every stock.

 

He also comments that: the Swivels were unshipped when not in action.

 

However, Brian Lavery writing in Arming and Fitting of English ships of War states:

 

According to the 1716 Establishment, small ships of the Fifth and Sixth rates were to carry swivels on their Quarterdecks. The number carried was approximately equal to the number of Main deck guns carried.

It's use was extended considerably in the 1770s when it was allocated to Frigates and Ships of the Line, for fitting to the tops and boats.

Twelve were issued to all ships  of 18 -74 guns, tho' not to three deckers.

Fore and Main Tops were fitted to carry three swivels each side.

 

Not withstanding this somewhat conflicting information, it does give you plenty of leeway to show or not show swivels on the mounts.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Blue Ensign

[tkay11]

Thanks a lot, hollander. Welcome to the little Sherbourne fleet we are building! It's always great to have another person to contribute to the builds as everyone has a distinctive approach and brings different ideas to this lovely little cutter. I am certainly looking forward to your log when you begin your build, as many others will be, I am sure.

 

You will have noticed how friendly everyone is on the forum, so as you get on with your build you can look forward to lots of helpful comments and support as well as to people responding to the ideas and experience you bring -- from whatever aspect. I notice you say in your other post that you are not so new to modelling, so it will be nice to hear of that experience.

 

It has been said many times on the forum that there's no such thing as a stupid question, so don't be afraid to ask about anything over which you are puzzled. Every builder here has been, at some stage, through the process of learning and even the most experienced tell us frequently that they love this hobby because they continue to learn.

 

If you also want suggestions about books and other sites that we have found helpful, don't forget to ask about these as well -- though it may be that you have already done enough research of your own in this regard.

 

Tony

[Greg]

Hi Tony

I have been following your log for a short time now while waiting to start mine.

Looks a nice kit.

Will try and start a log soon

Cheers

Greg

[tkay11]

That's great, Greg. It really is a nice kit and I've been helped greatly by all the expertise here (especially by those who have kit-bashed the Sherbourne) as well as by George Bandurek's 'Super-Detailing the Cutter Sherbourne' (which I bought from Model Dockyard), the Anatomy of the Ship book on the Cutter Alert,  and the wonderful hints and tips on Hubert's web site 'Wooden Ship Modeling for Dummies'. We're really flourishing now with the Sherbournes.

 

I noticed you were on MSW1.0 before but can't remember if you had a build going.

 

Looking forward to your new log -- which looks as though it's going to start at around the same time as hollander's.

 

I'm sitting here in Northern Nigeria planning how to re-do the 3-pounder guns when I get back at the end of the month as I now realise I mis-read the plans for them terribly (I thought the sides raked inwards vertically as well as horizontally because I hadn't realised that the drawings in the AOTS Alert were perspective drawings rather than the plans I thought they were!).

 

Tony

[Hollander-jan]

I have recieved the book by Bandurek good read. Still waiting for my kit. By the way will it be possible to do an klinker planking with de wood of the kit or do i have to buy other wood. I myself thouht it must be possible. 

 

jan

[egkb]

Have just bought a copy of the book today myself.. thanks for the tip!

 

Am awaiting a bulwark section that was missing from the kit before 'biting-the bullet' and beginning.. though I may do another kit before-hand to build up confidence for Sherbourne.

 

Keep the posts coming Tony and I look forward to seeing yours too Jan 

 

Cheers..

 

Eamonn

[tkay11]

Jan, I've seen about 3 or 4 models of the Sherbourne with clinker planking but not any with wood from the kit. There was a debate on MSW1 about whether a cutter of that date would have been clinker built, but it was as likely to have been so built as not -- so definitely something up to the builder to decide.

 

From what I've seen, although it might be possible to do with the 4mm strips from the kit, a lot of people use thinner strips of wood for the second planking, whether clinker built or carvel built.

 

Sumner has clinker-built his Sherbourne, which you can see at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/661-hmc-sherbourne-by-sumner-caldercraft-scale-164-kitbashed-to-1763-nmm-plans-first-wooden-ship-build/?p=106782. He used 4 x 0.5mm strips. I used wider and thinner strips (bought from Cornwall Model Boats) but didn't clinker build, as you will have noted.

 

I suppose the answer is that you try with the wood from the kit first and see what you think.

 

Eamonn: I wouldn't worry too much about confidence-building with another kit. The fact is that many (including myself) have had the Sherbourne as a first build and almost as soon as you start you'll find you're surprising yourself with the fact that you can do it. Try not to be put off by the wonderful skills shown by others with the Sherbourne -- I think they all have had several previous models under their belt and have built their skills as gradually as we all do. The great thing about these wooden models is that mistakes are for the most part rectifiable. Some people have even taken their planking apart and started all over again! Whenever you come up against a problem, search the forum, have a look at builds of other ships, go to the books, and, most important of all, think. I really do recommend Hubert Sicard's website as he does show how to do most of the basics (and not so basics) with ordinary tools -- the only powered one being his mini-drill.

 

Tony

[egkb]

Thanks Tony, that's really very encouraging, I will investigate Hubert S's website too.. still though, ye guys make it all look sooo easy:) admittedly I am looking forward to breaking her out (bad choice of words there I feel )  I picked up the HMS Convulsion to do first, so I shall see (it won't be till the New Year anyhoo)

I want to do her justice you see as I love those smaller boat builds.

 

Thanks again for the advice and encouragement.

 

Eamonn

[egkb]

Yea, Dirk I was looking at the anchor handling arrangements (or LACK of them ), and the rig does indeed look a little heavy.. I found some plans on the NMM site so will have a little look into this shortly.. complete accuracy wouldn't be a problem for me at this stage, though if the information is 'out there' then I should like to give it a go! 

Thanks Dirk & Tony

 

Eamonn

[tkay11]

You can see a few builds of the Swift on this site (including Dirk's completed build!). The rigging appears to be simpler than that for the Sherbourne and there's not so much to put on the deck. Others have also recommended the Bounty's jolly boat, which has several builds as well.

 

Tony

Edited November 13, 2013 by tkay11

[egkb]

Am currently at the rigging stage of a 1:46 Bounty which came to me in 'part-work' some 10 years ago (following those instructions leaves a lot to be desired , it isn't that they are bad more that they aren't in proper build order, but instead are in sections.. ie Deck,  Hull, Rigging, etc.. sounds great until you realise that you can't 'rig' without parts of the deck gear in place, and you can't put them in place without knowing exactly where the lines run.. particularly when you haven't been told to put them in place in the first place.. teehee. There are NO PLANS with this build it is purely done using text and photos ahhhhhhhh! ) Still lots of fun though trying to second guess what the 'designer' had in mind though.  OK rant over

I didn't realise what a 'proper' wooden kit looked like until the Sherbourne arrived and I unfolded ACTUAL plans

 

Phew I feel better now that that's off my chest..

 

Eamonn

[tkay11]

Just one further thought on this point. Many, including myself, see each stage of a build as a model or project in its own right. So there's the planking, then each different type of deck structure (catheads, anchors, windlass, guns, hatches, companionways...), then the rigging, the painting, the sails and so on. Each little bit has its own skills to develop. So to my mind the question is how many of these bits do you want to start to learn with your first kit (I say 'start' as I have a feeling it's an endless process)?

 

Linked to this is how quickly you want to achieve a completed ship build. My own answer is that I am more than happy tinkering away at each little project on the Sherbourne. I am not in the least fussed as to when or if I get 'to the end' -- each of the bits so far has been more than totally absorbing with the research, the planning, the learning of the use of each tool, the making, the mistakes and the re-making.

 

There's a whole range of attitudes to this kind of question amongst the builders on this and other sites. So don't be worried about your own thoughts. Whatever they are they'll generate interest on this site and much pleasure for yourself.

 

Tony

[egkb]

Nicely put Tony.. I have a feeling that once I start a 'proper' (bit unfair to the poor ol' Bounty, but you know what I mean after the rant) build, things will fall into place.. am really looking forward to both builds (Convulsion & particularly Sher.)

 

Eamonn

[tkay11]

Eamonn: I think you can buy the plans for some models of the Bounty, depending on which is the kit manufacturer. I know Cornwall Model Boats has plans from the Amati and Sergal kits (links provided) for £15-20. Even if yours is not from one of these manufacturers, you might find that the details are similar enough to be of help. You can even write to manufacturers to obtain the plans directly.

 

Tony

[Stockholm tar]

I actually built my Sherbourne with no other wood strips than those that came with the kit. They seemed perfectly adequate, although you have to be a little careful with the walnut second planking, as it is somewhat brittle.

 

As to whether she was clinker built or not is debatable. Chris Watton her designer said that she was carvel built, and this figures as she was built in the Naval Dockyard at Woolwich, where this type of construction was preferred. However, I wanted to try clinker building as an experiment, and because many other cutters were at that date, especially those built in private yards. I suppose it's up to the builder and what he prefers.

 

I don't see any reason for not using Sherbourne as a first kit. The build is quite straight forward, and you would still get difficulties with other models. The rig is also what you make of it, and it's not that difficult. Keeping it simple as per the instructions, or improving on it with the help of various publications, it's entirely up to you.

 

Tony makes a good point. Treat each stage as a project on it's own, and do the best job you can. the finished model will be all the better for it. As he implies, take your time. It's more important to make a good model, than to finish it quickly.

 

You've also the resources of MSW at your disposal!

Edited November 13, 2013 by Stockholm tar