23 foot Launch by allanyed - Bounty?? - late 18th century

[allanyed]

When considering models of the Bounty’s ship's boats there are quite a few on MSW alone. There are a number of things that have bothered me about these models so I wanted  to see if I could do something different even at a small scale.  If anyone has any solid contemporary information that specifically contradicts what I have used for this launch I would be very happy to build another version of this boat and correct any and all  mistakes. The drawings were done at full scale 1ft.= 1 ft then reduced to 1:48.  for this project.

 

Many/most of the logs on various modeling sites are for the Bounty jolly boat that Lt. Bligh ostensibly used for his famous voyage.  In reality there was never any kind of long voyage with Bligh in a jolly boat.  The jolly boat on the Bounty was rotted and would sink if put in the water.  The cutter was also leaky and too small so the boat that was used on the famous voyage was the 23 foot long launch, not the jolly boat nor the cutter. 

 

There are items regarding the launch at the time she was used by Bligh and his fellow passengers that have been questioned, but with the drawings from RMG, the scantlings found in W.E.May’s book The Boats of Men of War, and Bligh’s notes., I thought it would be worth a TRY to yield an accurate model.  Is it perfect, heck no!  I just wanted to use methods that I am pretty sure anyone can use to build the Bounty launch or most any ship’s boat. At the smaller scales perhaps some kit builders will find this build useful in providing an accurate ship’s boat for their Bounty or other ship.  

 

First up is the initial drawing.  The below is based primarily on RMG drawing ZAZ 7361 with additions based on additional research.

NB: If anyone wants a copy of any of the drawings that will be following please feel free to EMAIL me with their email address and what scale they want.  My email is in my profile.  I can send as tcw, pdf, jpg, pnb, dxf, tcw, bmp, or dwg format. I prefer to wait until the log is complete and corrections, if any are needed, are made.

 

List of scantlings.  Dimensions shown on the drawing ZAZ 7361 were the primary source of those shown below.  Where dimensions could not be taken from the drawing, the list of scantlings found in W.E. May’s book, The Boats of Men of War were used.

 

Length  23- 0”

Breadth 6’ 9”

Depth    2’ 9”

                                                                                                            Feet      Inches

Room & Space                                                                                     1          2⅜

Stem, sided                                                                                                       3⅜

Keel, Square Midships                                                                                      3¾

Post sided at the tuck                                                                                      3⅜

                           below                                                                                    2⅞

                       broad fore and aft at the keel                                                   8¼

Transom             thick                                                                                       2½

                           sided                                                                                      2

Floor timbers   sided                                                                                         2¼

                         moulded  -at the heads                                                            2⅛

                                         -at the throat                                                            3¾

Futtocks                sided below                                                                          2

                              square at the heads                                                             1⅞

Keelson               thick                                                                                        2

                            broad                                                                                     9½

Footwaling           thick                                                                                      1

Bottom planking   thick                                                                                     ⅞

                              broad                                                                                   7¼ 

Landing strake     broad                                                                                    7¼  

Upper strake          broad                                                                                   8

Gunwale                deep                                                                                     3

                              Thick                                                                                    3¼

Washboard broad at the bow, if included                                                         6      

Rising                  thick                                                                                       1

                            broad                                                                                     5½

Thwarts    fixed     thick                                                                                     2

                              broad                                                                                  10

Thwarts    loose    thick                                                                                     1½

                              broad                                                                                   8

Knee on  three fixed thwarts sided                                                                    3

Benches                thick                                                                                     1½

                              broad                                                                                  11

Deadwood          sided                                                                                      3

Breasthook            sided                                                                                    3

                              length       (each arm)                                               1          10

                              moulded at the throat                                                         6

Windlass               diameter                                                                               8

Chocks                  thick                                                                                     3

                              broad                                                                       1          1½

                            up and down                                                                         11¼                                

Ears                       sided                                                                                      6

                              length                                                                        1          3

Rudder                 breadth at the heel                                                     1          4¾

                            breadth at the hance                                                   1          0

                            breadth at the head                                                                6¾

                            thickness                                                                                 1

Rudder pintle        thick                                                                                     ¼

and gudgeon         width                                                                                    1

                             quantity                                                                              two

 

More to come.

Allan

Scantlings.pdf

Edited December 21, 2022 by allanyed

[vaddoc]

Now, what a good timing Allan! I ve been scratching my head trying to figure out how these boats were built back then, beyond the keel and planking. I ve been searching the net for my Yawl project but there is little info out there and May's book is not too helpful beyond planking.

I am not able to see the document you uploaded though.

 

Vaddoc

[iMustBeCrazy]

G'day Allan, as you know I'm doing pretty much the same thing for the same reasons. We will no doubt come to different conclusions in some areas but I think overall the result will be a better understanding of what the launch was probably like.

 

A few little things:

 

You left out the sided dimension for the floors.

 

I get a room and space of 1' 2 9/16" (which probably should realistically be 1' 2 1/2", possibly a scaling error on my part or the difference between a hand made ruler and CAD). I'll have another look.

 

You've drawn the davit as per Vaddoc's yawl but I think it's more probably like this:

 

Meanwhile I have to re-draw my frames to allow for fairing which I forgot.

 

7 hours ago, vaddoc said:

there is little info out there and May's book is not too helpful beyond planking

There are some good boat construction shots here including their launch replica. Might help.

[allanyed]

37 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

You left out the sided dimension for the floors.

 

Good catch, thanks!!

39 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

You've drawn the davit as per Vaddoc's yawl but I think it's more probably like this:

What you show is how I have done this in the past but then I saw this version elsewhere.   Time for some isopropyl to remove and redo.  It will all be covered, but may as well get it as close as we think it would be.

 

Thank you for your input, it is very much appreciated.

 

Allan   

 

Scantlings.pdf

[allanyed]

Craig,

After double checking I made the edits on the scantlings and drawing.   Keep 'em coming, I really appreciate the help. Regarding the davit, my original design was based on the follow, ZAZ7145, the yawl as you pointed out.  I am still not sure which is more appropriate but as ZAZ 7355 is a launch, I am going with that design as shown below.   Anyone building a yawl might be better served using the AZ7145 design.

 

There were a lot of questions that arose as this project moved along including the spacing of the frames.   I used the station lines from drawing for the location of the frames.  Note that there are far more frames than usually seen in ship's boat models.

 

 

The first style of forming plug that I have used is based on what I originally found in Frolich's The Art of Ship Modeling.  The thickness of the plug pieces is the same as the room and space.  NB: The plug designs were drawn so as to be the inside of the frames not to the station lines on the body plan which are the outside of the frames.   

Alternate forming plug, using 1/8" plywood, which is easy to find and does not require thicknessing the plugs.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by allanyed

[LyleK1]

Pulling up a chair and keeping tabs on your progress.

Very interesting stuff, Allan.

[iMustBeCrazy]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

I am still not sure which is more appropriate but as ZAZ 7355 is a launch, I am going with that design as shown below.

Most of the launches show either the "pin" version or the davit disappearing under the quarterdeck where there really isn't space for the "axle" style. A few (eg zaz7164) show the "axle" as a circle at the end of the davit.

 

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

There were a lot of questions that arose as this project moved along including the spacing of the frames.   I used the station lines from drawing for the location of the frames.

Sure was, not helped by my CAD package allowing you to set the precision of the displayed dimension without locking the actual dimension to the displayed value. So with a precision of 1/8" a 2" line could be anywhere between 1 15/16 and 2 1/16.

 

Anyway, this is what I have at the moment:

 

[allanyed]

Love it Craig.

 

I debated with myself on the construction of the frames.  The floors being separate from the futtocks as you show is more realistic, but I settled for something easier for most builders with a minimum of tools and smaller scales.   If I were doing this in 1:36 or 1:24 I would cut out the floors and frames as you show and as seen in Frolich et al.

 

Allan

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

but I settled for something easier for most builders with a minimum of tools and smaller scales.

At smaller scales I think I'd do the same but as I'm giving myself locating holes it shouldn't be much harder than a one piece frame (I hope):

 

[allanyed]

Frames in place on both types of forming blocks follows.  The frames are made of holly which bend like paper when soaked in water for 10 minutes at smale scales.  A few of the full frames did crack while being bent over the form, but extra material had been sized so not a big problem to replace these.  I had experimented with other woods and poplar works nearly as well if thorougly wetted for a half hour or so.  The guides on the solid plug MUST be thinner than the frames to avoid having the hull glued to them when gluing on the planks.

 

The drawing of the individual formers follows and available for anyone that wants it in whatever scale they prefer if downloading from here does not work out so well.   I use a spacer block under the plug, but cut indents for the slat formers which are glued directly to the building board.  The top of the frames is marked on each section.  Several have been marked with the plank line.  There are 8 strakes of planking to bring the width to the scantling figure of  7.5" at station 0.  These and the balance of pieces can be marked later as would be done on the ship model itself with tick strips to get the proper taper of the planks.

 

 

Full frames set in place.

 

 

NB:  I found that the planked hull came free of the slat style former more easily compared to the solid plug.  Removing from the solid plug took some jiggling and a few scary moments.

 

The moulded dimension of the frames is more than the futtocks which taper down to 1.5" square at the head of the futtocks.  Shaping these is a bit of a chore but not difficult.  In practical terms, with the keel, planking, keelson and footwaling covering the floors, the frame material can be 1.5"X1.5" the entire length and the floor moulded dimension will not really be noticeable.  Builder's choice.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by allanyed

[druxey]

Just arrived at this thread. Looking good, Allan, although I suspect that the bottom boards rested against the floors, not horizontally across as you have them on your drawing.

[oakheart]

Hello to all, I too have just arrived at this log having just read your discussion at 33217-bountys-ships-boat-details
this is all good stuff. I love what you are doing.

I have just posted my introduction over at the newbies section.

I hope to start a log of my explorations over the next few days.

 

You guys here have really inspired me, we seem to be following the same path.

I love the Cornish replica build which they say was built to the Museum drawings.
As I said in my intro. looking at their photos on Facebook has got me counting planks now.

 

Tim

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

Frames in place on both types of forming blocks follows.

Looking good Allan.

 

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

The guides on the solid plug MUST be thinner than the frames to avoid having the hull glued to them when gluing on the planks.

The cling film worked quite well on my cutter in preventing sticking, another thought is a quick coat of hairspray followed by spray on furniture wax (or even wd40) and a buff.

 

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

which taper down to 1.5" square at the head of the futtocks.

1 7/8" ?? Not that it matters at your scale (or mine) I'm leaving the taper out as it complicates drawing the frames. It took about five hours just to draw the futtocks for 'H' which finishes up diamond shaped at the head, and I won't be sure if it's right until I start assembling. "H" should be the worst so it should get easier. After I printed it I thought "wow that's small/ Allan's insane". Anyway, I've cut some wood so soon it will be time to start my own build log.

 

 

6 hours ago, druxey said:

Looking good, Allan, although I suspect that the bottom boards rested against the floors, not horizontally across as you have them on your drawing.

druxey, that would be my drawing I guess. The problem is that on many drawings you couldn't reach such bottom boards with your feet if seated on the thwarts. On some of the larger boats it can be around three feet! Some drawings show raised bottom boards and some show foot rails but most like the one Allan and I are working off show nothing so I chose to raise them to a reasonable working height.

 

5 hours ago, oakheart said:

I love the Cornish replica build which they say was built to the Museum drawings.

G'day oakheart (and welcome), I like her too, she was made to the drawing in Bligh's book/s with added washboards (but Allan convinced me that she didn't have washboards) but that drawing is an artists copy, it looks good but isn't 'right' which is why Allan and I are using ZAZ7361 with no washboards and a lower transom.

[allanyed]

7 hours ago, druxey said:

Just arrived at this thread. Looking good, Allan, although I suspect that the bottom boards rested against the floors, not horizontally across as you have them on your drawing.

Sorry Druxy, but I am not sure what you mean.  The following is a cross section showing the keelson and bottom boards that I drew

(post #1)   Along these lines (forgive the pun) Mays gives scantlings for footwaling.   Is this the same thing as the bottom boards?  A larger pic of my cross section follows:

Thanks!!

Allan

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by allanyed

[oakheart]

Hi mustbecrazy

 

I hope to get down to Cornwall in the spring to get a closer look at the replica, possibly have a chat to the makers too.

They used a lot of planks, I can count 14 !

Most of the kit models have a lot less than that, did they use more thin planks to make easier to build?

Now I look the Museum drawings don't show the planking or am I just not seeing it?  

 

Tim

[allanyed]

Craig, Typo on my part regarding the tops of the frames.  1 7/8 is correct as you mention and on the list of scantlings above.

 

Allan

40 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

The cling film worked quite well on my cutter in preventing sticking, another thought is a quick coat of hairspray followed by spray on furniture wax (or even wd40) and a buff.

Great idea, but does the material cling to the frames thus making  gluing the keelson, risiers and other items to the frames problematic? 

Thanks for your continued help!

Alaln

[allanyed]

36 minutes ago, oakheart said:

They used a lot of planks, I can count 14 !

Hi Tim

Based on scantlings for a 24 foot launch in May's book and a contemporary drawing CHN0132 at RMG of a 23 foot long boat from Venus 1758.  I found the planks need to be more than 6 inches and less than 10 inches broad.  The scantlings I show above are based on measuring the arc of the outside of the frames, not the arc of the former plug.   The only way to be exact is to use a tick strip and measure the length at frame 0 when the frames are in place and then divide by the number of strakes, in this case 8.  7 strakes would also work, it is really up to the model builder.  I used 8 in order to have the breadth of the planking between 6 and 10 inches. Note that May does not give the breadth of the bottom planks, only the upper strake and landing strake, but these should serve well as guides.  Every model may be a tiny bit different so the scantlings should be a guide and tick strips used to get the actual breadth of the planks below the landing strake for your own model.  

 

For the replica, I would LOVE to see it and hope you take and post lots of photos! 😁   If there are 14 strakes, they would be in the neighborhood of 4 inches broad.   They may be correct but I have my doubts.  If they are, it would great to ask them if they can share their sources.  

 

Allan

 

 

 

[oakheart]

10 hours ago, allanyed said:

For the replica, I would LOVE to see it and hope you take and post lots of photos! 😁   If there are 14 strakes, they would be in the neighborhood of 4 inches broad.   They may be correct but I have my doubts.  If they are, it would great to ask them if they can share their sources.  

 

NMMC  took loads of photos during the construction, take a look on the their facebook page

in this photo I can count 14 main planks with the narrow band at the top

 

 

could the narrow plank at the top is their stealer plank - it allowed them to use equally sized main planks

in this photo you can clearly see all of the planks, I count 14 planks with the narrow top gunwale being added

 

 

the hull is shown prior to being ‘scruffed off’ by planing and sanding

 

 

there is also a couple of good videos on youtube showing them steam bending the planks

make our stuff look easy ....

 

Tim

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by oakheart
duplicate photo

[iMustBeCrazy]

3 hours ago, allanyed said:

Great idea, but does the material cling to the frames thus making  gluing the keelson, risiers and other items to the frames problematic? 

No, it doesn't stick to the frames or the plug at all and glue doesn't stick to the film.

 

What I would do is shape the frames on the plug, let them dry, remove them, drape cling film over the plug, refit the frames starting at 0 and working outwards then continue as normal. Masking tape can hold the film in place temporarily.

 

You can see the film in use from post 22 on in my cutter build log.

[iMustBeCrazy]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

If they are, it would great to ask them if they can share their sources.

Particularly as regards rigging and sail plan

 

[druxey]

Yes, exactly, Allan. I guess the other c/s was not yours. Footwaling = bottom boards.

[oakheart]

10 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Tim

 Every model may be a tiny bit different so the scantlings should be a guide and tick strips used to get the actual breadth of the planks below the landing strake for your own model.  

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Allan

Thanks for all of the detailed info. it will help me get my thoughts together.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

9 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Particularly as regards rigging and sail plan

 

Hi Craig

I finally found some more photos on the NMMC facebook page, facebook is not easy to find things on...

any way when I did a search, there are some photos of the rigging and sails they used.

 

As a newbie I'm really not sure what the correct thing to do here is, should I post loads of images here or a link to them elsewhere ?

so far I have done both, which is the prefered method here at MSW?

 

Tim

Edited December 18, 2022 by oakheart
removed non working link

[oakheart]

I just found a QnA about the building the replica on the NMMC website.

 

https://nmmc.co.uk/2017/07/q-a-building-the-bounty-launch/

 

They do talk about how they researched the build but nothing you all have not covered already.

 

Tim

Edited December 18, 2022 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

26 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I finally found some more photos on the NMMC facebook page, facebook is not easy to find things on...

any way when I did a search, there are some photos of the rigging and sails they used.

Thanks Tim but I have lots of the facebook photos (I also linked to them in post #3 unless you found more), what Allan and I are more interested in is why they made her the way they did and what sources of information they used. We want more facts for the other thread and to guide our builds.

 

32 minutes ago, oakheart said:

As a newbie I'm really not sure what the correct thing to do here is, should I post loads of images here or a link to them elsewhere ?

so far I have done both, which is the prefered method here at MSW?

Well, as a build log it's up to the author (Allan) but generally enough photos to be helpful or to make a point but not over the top. The link you tried is a good idea (but it doesn't work) but otherwise the other thread might be better for things that don't directly relate to Allan's build.

[oakheart]

31 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

We want more facts for the other thread and to guide our builds.

The link you tried is a good idea (but it doesn't work) but otherwise the other thread might be better for things that don't directly relate to Allan's build.

 

Thanks Craig I just went back and looked at post #3, don't know how I missed that link, how did you find them?

I will only upload photos that are related to Allan's build.

Shame the link did not work ? the photos show the replica at sea with sails and rigging.

 

Which is the other thread?

 

Still a lot for me to learn here and not just about boat building, thanks for the helping hand.

 

Tim

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

how did you find them?

I searched for 'National Maritime Museum Cornwall Facebook'.

 

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

Which is the other thread?

Bounty's ship's boat details

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by iMustBeCrazy

[allanyed]

Tim,  If you have more photos than you think should go on this build log, PLEASE go to my profile and email any and all photos and other information you think are important.  We can decide together what may be of interest on the log. 😀   I am curious already about a few things in the photos, including the breadth and number of strakes of planking and the stem thickness.  They do not look right based on contemporary scantlings but it may just be the angle of the photos.   

 

Allan

 

 

[oakheart]

Allan

I have more than 60 photos from the NMMC replica build, happy to zip them up and email them to you if you want them.

 

One thing that I am curious about in your list of scantlings ( which I take to mean measurements ) is the width of the keel, stem and stern
it is listed as 2" but on the drawings when I measure it I get 4" wide.
Also can you ( or someone ) explain the terms used in the scantlings for me ( and others ).

There is so much to learn about language/terms they used back then.

 

Tim

 

[oakheart]

Just a thought, is there a way to keep a centralized album on MSW of all of these images we have between us?

 

I have some Fusion 360 I have created and Illustrator / DXF files I can share as well

 

OK I have just read this  : -

 

 

Tim

Edited December 18, 2022 by oakheart