Cutty Sark by VitusBering - Revell - 1:96 - PLASTIC - Abandoned

[VitusBering]

Thirty 3.5mm and thirty-six 2.5mm deadeyes to tie to the rails and gunwale. Each has a partner that needs to be connected with lanyards.

 

A hundred and thirty-two deadeyes to wire up and that's before a single knot is tied in the ratlines. I almost calculated the approximate number of knots that would be for just the lower tier of ratlines but after counting up the deadeyes I don't want to know.😬

 

I'm a bit less than a quarter of the way through tying up the lower eyes. I'm not sure when I'll come up for air but I'll post a pic or two when I reach a threshold.

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, VitusBering said:

 

A hundred and thirty-two deadeyes to wire up and that's before a single knot is tied in the ratlines. I almost calculated the approximate number of knots that would be for just the lower tier of ratlines but after counting up the deadeyes I don't want to know.😬

The Heller Victory, whose fore and main lower ratlines span 9 or 11 shrouds each, requires about 3000 clove hitches to rattle down completely. That idea of pushing the ratlines through the shroud threads with a needle could save time.

[VitusBering]

9 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

The Heller Victory, whose fore and main lower ratlines span 9 or 11 shrouds each, requires about 3000 clove hitches to rattle down completely. That idea of pushing the ratlines through the shroud threads with a needle could save time.

 

Yikes. I'm sure that by the time I've done some of this I'll be tying clove hitches in my sleep. I'm not complaining though, this is what I signed up for and it really is part of the joy.

[VitusBering]

0k there are a whole bunch of things wrong here but they're mostly because it is a work in progress.

 

The ratline shrouds are not properly tied to the deadeyes nor seized. Their ends are loose for that reason.

The deadeyes are not quite spaced correctly, their lanyards are loose for that reason.

 

The main question I have is about the diameter of shroud rope.

I don't know how the Amati designations translate to anything, but I have several available.

The 25 is what I am using for the shrouds in this pic, the 50 seems just a bit heavy to me but not unreasonably so - not like the 75 which is clearly too large.

 

Is the 25 too light?

 

[Bob Fraser]

Hi Daryl

According to Campbell and Longridge the fore and main lower shrouds are 5" circumference.  This translates to 1.59155" diameter and gives 0.4211mm at 1/96th.

The main and fore stays are also 5" circumference, but the mizzen lower shrouds and stay are 4" circumference, or 0.3369mm at 1/96th

All the measurements for stays and shrouds are given inside the hull on his rigging plan.

 

Looking good BTW, wish mine was even half as good! (It's staying put for a good while yet)

 

Cheers

[VitusBering]

Thanks Bob. I'll run with the 25 for the ratline shrouds and upper stays and use the 50 for the lower stays.

[shipman]

Be aware much of the standing rigging is WIRE, which is thinner than 'rope'.

All of it was served and tarred.

[VitusBering]

Yep I'm aware, shipman - but compromises must be made. I'm not planning on a true scale implementation for this build. The next may be different, but I'll concentrate on this one and do the best I can as I develop my skills.

[VitusBering]

My first ever ratline shrouds. They're not tensioned or tied off at the top yet, I'm still working that out,

And I cannot for the life of me figure out in situ seizing. It is a bit frustrating but I will conquer it - maybe not master it but I will get better.

 

[Bob Fraser]

Darryl, have you seen @Kevin-the-lubbers photos?

Using them and a ruler, given that the deadeye is 10", the tail that is siezed appears to measure out at 4 or 5 feet on the lower ratline shrouds and mast stays alongside them.

That'll give you 15mm length for the 3 small siezes and the lanyard lock turns.

Bruma has a closeup of them here

Maybe Kevin or @shipman can jump in here as you've seen them in the flesh, to confirm or otherwise please?

 

 

[shipman]

Bob, to quote VB:

 

''Yep I'm aware, shipman - but compromises must be made. I'm not planning on a true scale implementation for this build. The next may be different, but I'll concentrate on this one and do the best I can as I develop my skills''.

 

With that in mind, it is my humble opinion, getting the micrometer out for such details is verging on the autism spectrum.

An old phrase seems appropriate....'if it looks right it is right'.

[Ian_Grant]

9 hours ago, VitusBering said:

My first ever ratline shrouds. They're not tensioned or tied off at the top yet, I'm still working that out,

And I cannot for the life of me figure out in situ seizing. It is a bit frustrating but I will conquer it - maybe not master it but I will get better.

Did you mean the seizing of the shroud pairs at the masthead? Or the seizing at the deadeyes?

[VitusBering]

Thank you all very much. Bob, I have seen (even studied) Kevin's photos as well as others' in build logs here. I'm not very concerned much with rope diameter or even seizing scale. Besides, I have fairly limited choices in rigging rope. shipman has the right of it. Spot on.

 

My self-criticism is of the craft. My seizing work seems sloppy at best and I can't seem to (yet) improve on it.

 

51 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Did you mean the seizing of the shroud pairs at the masthead? Or the seizing at the deadeyes?

 

Both. Whenever I try to wrap seizing thread around any line it is a struggle. I've tried several methods (dabbing adhesive of one sort or another at intermediate stages of the wrap to try to prevent unraveling, trying to hold either or both the shroud and seizing thread in helping hands, etc.).

[gak1965]

5 hours ago, VitusBering said:

Both. Whenever I try to wrap seizing thread around any line it is a struggle. I've tried several methods (dabbing adhesive of one sort or another at intermediate stages of the wrap to try to prevent unraveling, trying to hold either or both the shroud and seizing thread in helping hands, etc.).

I haven't seen the plans for the masthead of the CS, but on the other ships I've done, the shrouds have tended to be in pairs either port or starboard which tend to be the most straightforward. With 5 shrouds that still would leave you with one singleton. I have typically seized the singleton at the masthead before I attached the deadeye. That way I could give the shroud a nice tail while seizing, and then tighten followed by gluing the seizing thread at the masthead. Once that was dry, I could mount the deadeye at the correct distance and seize that in place. FWIW, I put glue on the circumference of the deadeye, and once that was stable, I could seize the lines together.

 

Also, unless CS has something different, I add the sheer pole after I had tensioned and secured the lanyards. I also tended to cheat a bit, I'd use a bit of adhesive on the deadeye "eyes" to stabilize the lanyards before they were anchored.

 

Regards, GAK

[Knocklouder]

Hey I must be on the autism spectrum because I use a micrometer to make ALL my deadeyes look the same. I should change my name to The Good Modeller. Lol  But even with that, they are out a little  lol.

Sooner or later, you'll come across a log that will have a picture or explanation.  I would check out @Katsumoto log of the Santa Maria.  He showed me how to do ratlines , and I like doing them his way. Not many people like doing ratlines but I do lol.@Blue Ensign Pegasus log  has so much information about  lines, serving, seizing, attaching, etc...

As for how to keep everything from unraveling,  tension is the key, don't  let go of the rope, lol.  Easier said then done.  😉 

 I have enjoyed following along  and seeing the detail you put into your ship, hope this helps.    

 

[VitusBering]

Thank you profusely Knocklouder. Your attitude and approach are precisely what I aspire to.

 

The logs to which you refer are yet more of exactly what I am looking for and are great examples of the astounding talent in this community (yourself most definitely included).

 

And thank you for your kind words and support! I have said often and will likely do so again ad nauseam that this build is a learning journey and while the result will not be discarded on the scrap heap there are more in the offing.

 

btw I am not happy with the way my deadeyes look on the mizzen rail so I do plan to unthread them and try to follow better practices to get them looking more like yours.

Edited March 24, 2023 by VitusBering
Typos and added note.

[Ian_Grant]

On 3/23/2023 at 10:29 AM, VitusBering said:

Both. Whenever I try to wrap seizing thread around any line it is a struggle. I've tried several methods (dabbing adhesive of one sort or another at intermediate stages of the wrap to try to prevent unraveling, trying to hold either or both the shroud and seizing thread in helping hands, etc.).

You're allowed to cheat at 1/100 scale!  I start a seizing by tying an ordinary overhand knot, then use one leg to wrap both the other leg and the lines being seized, ending in another overhand knot. A spot of glue, snip the ends and you're done.

 

One can sometimes seize the shroud pairs off the ship, around a suitable diameter dowel, then slip them over the mast head before adding the cap, be it lower or topmast. If one needs to seize at the masthead, I use a mini alligator clip (the type with no teeth) to hold the loop together while I seize.

 

For singleton shrouds (called "swifters" I believe), you can cheat (again) by using the knot below to add both sides at the same time with one length of thread. Where they cross, I've interrupted the one that is below the other. This looks very effective on the mast, much like two properly formed swifters.  By tugging at the two loops as you tighten it you can "move" the shrouds forward or aft on the mast. Thanks to "Blue Ensign" who published this on the old Pete Coleman Victory Model website.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[VitusBering]

Thank you Ian. I may be using incorrect terminology. What I struggle a bit with and what I am calling seizing is the thread wrapping around a line that is, for instance, looped around a deadeye, holding the "tail" of the line to the line proper. I am on my phone right now (in hospital actually, long story but I should be home by the beginning of the week) so I can't include an example but have a look at the last picture I posted... the beige thread wrapping the shrouds at the deadeye - is that seizing?

[Bob Fraser]

Wishing you a speedy recovery!

[Ian_Grant]

Sorry to hear that; get well soon!

 

To seize the a shroud at a deadeye, I wrap it round at the correct length, then clamp it at the deadeye edge with, again, a mini toothless alligator clip. I then apply the seizing thread with an overhand knot; it's thin enough to slip in between the clip and the deadeye. I then wrap both legs of the seizing around to the back of the deadeye and do another overhand knot. Then remove the clip and again wrap the two shroud threads and one leg of the seizing using the other leg, finish with an overhand knot or two, dab of glue, and trim the ends. Not really cricket compared to reality but at 1/100 it looks fine to all but the most discerning modelers.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[VitusBering]

Thank you Ian, for the valuable tips and your kind words. I'll give it a go when I get back to the shipyard.

 

In the mean time I will find a source for toothless alligator clips. All of mine, both loose and attached to the helping hands have sharp teeth. I have covered them with shrink tubing but that is less than ideal.

[gak1965]

Get well quickly!

[VitusBering]

I wish I had a CS build  update to report but no such luck today.

Briefly, I have had a deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism incident that landed me in the ER. My doctor changed my anticoagulant but the pharmacy won't have any until Monday at the earliest. Doc won't release me until I have it in hand. The reasons for that are complicated but I get it.

 

I digress. I currently can't sit upright without my leg elevated for long. That will improve but it will take a while, maybe weeks. I will try to work in small time increments and see how that goes. Not working on the build is not an option so I'll work it out.

[Ian_Grant]

Whew!  Hope your drug arrives quickly, and that you are home soon! 🤙

[Knocklouder]

Hope you feel well soon!!   

[LeoM]

Get well soon!

[VitusBering]

I want to thank all of you for your kind words and well wishes. I'm home from hospital and eager to resume work in the shipyard but that needs to wait a short time longer - most likely less than a week, we'll see. My recovery is proceeding very well and full recovery is just around the corner. Thank you all again and some sort of build update will follow along soon.

[VitusBering]

Port mizzen ratline shrouds redux. Far from perfect but better than before. I'm hoping to improve, I've learned a bit doing this and reading all of you folks' advice. The railing needs some touchup due to a tool mishap. It looks worse in pics but still needs attention.

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by VitusBering
Fix dyslectic text - can't tell port from starboard.

[VitusBering]

Same for the starboard side. I'm still researching exactly where and how to tie these off - from what I can glean they should be tied in port/starboard pairs but where on the mast and or mast top that happens is still a puzzle. One I will solve, though, by studying build logs here. The books aren't much help in this instance, the shrouds can't really be tied in scale fashion, if I'm reading things correctly. That is, of course, by no means certain.

 

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Vitus,

 

A length of thread is looped around the mast head, above the top. The resulting two lengths are clenched together tight against the mast with a seizing very close to it; that gives you a shroud pair. Usually the starboard forward pair is first, then the port forward pair is wrapped around the mast, seized, and pushed down against the first pair, from above. Then the starboard 3rd and 4th shroud, and so on. At the end you have a series of wraps around the mast stacked in a neat vertical array.

 

Have a look at the picture below, from Longridge. The shrouds are seen just above the top, in two colours to indicate the alternating port/starboard shroud pairs. This is an 18th century ship ("Victory", in fact), but this aspect is the same even for wire rigging.