HMS Bounty Launch by Oakheart - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 – 18th century - based on drawings from National Maritime Museum

[oakheart]

Having nearly completed bashing a Deans Marine kit of an RC Destroyer, HMS Lightning, I started looking for a new project.
I always loved the look of the wonderful wooden Men of War that I had seen at the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich in my youth.
Sadly I do not think I’m ready to build one of those yet, so looking around the MSW website and reading loads of build logs in decided I would build a ships boat to help build up my skills.
Both Allanyed and imustbecrazy inspired me to start this log, I have been hanging around on their logs over the last few days.
The build logs of the Shipways 1:16 launch by Cap'nRatFink and keithW   have also been invaluable in helping to decide what to build.
Then there is of course Chuck Passaro's and his wonderful Medway Longboat kit, I wish I could afford that one.
For better or worse I decided to go down the scratch build slipway.
So I downloaded a lines drawing from NMM numbered ZAZ7848, this is alleged to be a copy of the drawing used to build the actual launch for HMS Bounty.
Having used Fusion 360 for several years now I was comfortable in being able to import the drawing and produce a design that would enable me to make a scale model in wood.
At first my idea was to output some g-code from the CAM section in Fusion and produce the keel and frames using my small CNC  router.
After a bit of test cutting on my scroll saw, I realized with something this simple I could do it as easily by hand. Also by doing it manually I would learn a lot more about working with wood which is sadly lacking in my skill set.

So here we are with the drawing nicely hand traced in Fusion with the frames ready to export as DXF files to print out and scroll cut by hand.

 

[dunnock]

Hi Oakheart,

 

Going straight in to scratch building is impressive. I don't think that I have the skills (or understanding) to take this leap and I wish you good luck with your project.

 

I noticed in some of your comments on Allanyed's log that you are struggling to source suitable wood for modelling in the UK. I have been using boxwood strip from Original Marquetry Home - Original Marquetry Ltd. I have also used pear and boxwood from Timberline Steamed pearwood guitar banding 800 x 6 x 2mm - Timberline - Exotic Hardwoods and Sundries. There was another supplier that I found the other day. I thought that I had added it to favourites but I'm struggling to find it again now. I'll let you know if I come across it again.

 

David

[oakheart]

15 minutes ago, dunnock said:

suitable wood for modelling in the UK.

 

Hi Dunnock ( David )

 

Thanks for the best wishes, I will need all the luck I can find along the way.
I always was the foolhardy type, straight in with both feet. I used to to run a model making company called 'Risky Ventures'

we would take on projects nobody else would touch. I can remember going to meetings and saying 'of course we can do that' then getting back and thinking how the xxx are we going to get that made............

 

Thanks for the links to the wood suppliers, when I stop hacking all the Basswood, maybe I will order some.

[oakheart]

So I found small piece of 2.4 mm thick plywood in the workshop, no idea where or when I got it.

Printed out the keel and frame, glued it to the plywood with a no-name brand spraymount glue and attacked it with the scroll saw.
I was please with how it came out, not bad even if I do say so myself.

 

The frame seems pretty strong, even though its only 2x2 mm square at the top at 1:24 that 2x2 inches which is to scale

 

 

 

The problem is I have no more of the 2.4 mm ply and no where local seems to sell it.

The 2 mm stuff is way to floppy and 3 mm looks out of scale
I did try some 2.4 mm Obeche I had, but at this size it just snapped like a twig

 

 

I glued it back together, you can just see the glue line on the left. But I think it may be too delicate to use.

The frame at the back is the first plywood test stained down.

 

Tim

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by oakheart

[oakheart]

Hope this style of log is okay?
I am really just making it up as I go along, try something if it works keep going.

 

Let me know what you think

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

3 hours ago, oakheart said:

Hope this style of log is okay?

It's fine Tim.

 

As a first (and scratch!) build treat it as a learning experience. You are trying to learn a lot of new things all at once. Don't be too pedantic about scale and don't rush.

 

You could brace your frames by making them taller and gluing a brace across them (to be cut off after planking).

 

Both the forward and aft sides of the frames must touch the rabbit.

 

You will need to make some frames deeper to allow for fairing (eg. 3 5/64" instead of 2").

 

[oakheart]

Hey thanks Craig 

This is really helpful, I was planning on having some kind of 'mold' like they do with the kit models, in fact like you did with your 16 footer.

Making the frame thicker to allow for fairing make total sense, I wa just in the workshop and cut a new futtock along the grain and was wondering

how to overcome the thinning that would happen when I faired it, now to work out how much.

You also answered the other question that was floating around in my head, how deep should the slots in the keel be,  your diagrams explain it perfectly

 

Tim

 

 

[oakheart]

Okay here is the idea for the frames and its supporting mold.

 

 

a  blank is cut round the outer edge then the frame is cut, leaving me with a frame and a support mold 

I can then carefully rub down and finish the frame then fit it back on the the mold and place it on the base ready for fairing

 

 

here is my first test base for the frames

 

 

if I extend the legs ( futtocks ) of the frame on both sides I could even glue it in place and cut off later.

 

Craig - your diagram above shows dimensions to make the frame thicker for fairing, how did you work out how much bigger to make the frame size?
Is it just taken from the plan view ?

 

Tim

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by oakheart

[oakheart]

Anyone : The images I have posted are really big on the page, how do I show a smaller thumbnail that when clicked show the bigger image?

 

Tim

[Keith Black]

Tim, the images are fine. Leave as is, the bigger the image the easier to see detail. I dislike small images taken with a phone, you can't make out detail for diddly. 

[iMustBeCrazy]

20 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I was planning on having some kind of 'mold' like they do with the kit models, in fact like you did with your 16 footer

They are useful, make sure everything is square and stays that way. I'm currently redrawing my frames as effectively 3 drawings for each station (midships side of the futtocks, at the station line and the other side of the floors) then I can start working on the jig design.

 

As your ribs/frames are centered on the station lines you need to make them to fit their widest dimension (midship edge) not the station line dimension so they can be faired..

 

[oakheart]

12 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

Tim, the images are fine. Leave as is, the bigger the image the easier to see detail. I dislike small images taken with a phone, you can't make out detail for diddly. 

Thanks Keith : I just found out how to make them smaller, but they are not clickable thumbnails.

The next images I upload I will leave BIG.

[oakheart]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:11 PM, iMustBeCrazy said:

As your ribs/frames are centered on the station lines you need to make them to fit their widest dimension (midship edge) not the station line dimension so they can be faired..

Thank Craig

I will incorporate those ideas into my design

I am now redrawing my cad model based on ZAZ7361, am I correct in thinking that you and Allen now think this is the best drawing to work from

 

Tim

Edited December 20, 2022 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

8 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I am now redrawing my cad model based on ZAZ7361, am I correct in thinking that you and Allen now think this is the best drawing to work from

Speaking for myself (although I think Allan is mostly in agreement) ZAZ7361 with the lower transom from the book drawing, no washboards and the slightly heaver scantlings of the book drawing (it doesn't really matter at our scales) is the best representation.

[oakheart]

Thanks Craig - so it's full steam ahead for me then.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

Let me know if this helps.

 

ZAZ7361.dxf

[oakheart]

10 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Let me know if this helps.

Hi Craig, thanks it helps me to understand the drawing more clearly.

I have all of the frames already traced in Fusion now just need to do the plan view.

When I import your DXF to fusion, there are loads of control points, that really bogs down fusion so it not usable. Which program was it drawn in ?

This is a real downside of Fusion, when you get complex sketches ( the 2D drawings ) it can't cope, sulks and slows down to a crawl.
I have found that retracing manually using splines keeps things working smoothly.

thanks for the file.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

Still deciphering these drawings, what does the dashed line ( marked with red arrow ) outside the hull line on the plan represent?

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

31 minutes ago, oakheart said:

When I import your DXF to fusion, there are loads of control points, that really bogs down fusion so it not usable. Which program was it drawn in ?

An old version of Vectorworks.

 

Sounds like I better stick to images or PDFs.

[iMustBeCrazy]

25 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Still deciphering these drawings, what does the dashed line ( marked with red arrow ) outside the hull line on the plan represent?

This is the dxf (re-imported into vectorworks). It's changed some line colours and but I think that's all (size difference is due to printing 'current view').

 

Re-imported:

 

Original:

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by iMustBeCrazy

[iMustBeCrazy]

These may be of more use (bigger image in the zip file):

 

ZAZ7361-15.zip

Edited December 21, 2022 by iMustBeCrazy

[oakheart]

Craid said : These may be of more use

 

I will gives those new drawings a go, thanks again for taking the time and effort to help me on my project.

It really helps helps having some support when trying to learn new things.

 

Tim

 

[oakheart]

Craig those new drawings are really helpful, all of the frames except for  G and H that I traced from the original NMM drawing match yours.

I can now use yours to trace the keel and plan so it will all fit together.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

7 hours ago, oakheart said:

I can now use yours to trace the keel and plan so it will all fit together.

 

9 hours ago, oakheart said:

what does the dashed line ( marked with red arrow ) outside the hull line on the plan represent?

Did you identify this line? I'm not sure which one you mean.

[oakheart]

1 hour ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Did you identify this line? I'm not sure which one you mean.

 

here is the image I meant to upload, I got interrupted by the local carol singers ringing on the door bell, it disrupted my train of thought.

Its the line indicated by the red arrow.

 

Craig : those new images you posted really show how the rabbet and keel works, invaluable information.

 

Should all of this information also go on the other thread Bounty ships boat details  as well ?

it would keep all of the more technical stuff in one place so others can find it.

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

Its the line indicated by the red arrow.

Ok, I thought it would be that one.

 

It's one of the diagonals. Measurements in the table of offsets (which we don't have) give the length along the diagonal from the centreline to the station line this is sometimes longer than the (half) width of the hull.

On my drawings I (try to) make the same reference line the same colour wherever it appears.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by iMustBeCrazy

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

Should all of this information also go on the other thread Bounty ships boat details  as well ?

it would keep all of the more technical stuff in one place so others can find it.

It will later, it's not finished.

[oakheart]

7 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

It's one of the diagonals. Measurements in the table of offsets (which we don't have) give the length along the diagonal from the centreline to the station line this is sometimes longer than the (half) width of the hull.

It all becomes much clearer when you know what the lines are, thanks

[oakheart]

Today, Frame H redesigned in Fusion as a sketch exported, printed and cut out of 2.5 mm obeche.

I have now added guide lines for the fairing, so I filled/sanded done to the line, then cut to the inside line

once I was happy with fairing, I fixed it back on the mold with tape and a dob of pva on the new extension, you can hardly see the join.

Feels like this method will work.

 

 

I also had a revelation this morning, why am I fixated with using Fusion for the 2D drawings, I am now going to cut this manually

not cutting on the CNC. But because I comfortable with sketching in Fusion and have forgotten how to use Illustrator, I kept using Fusion.

But now I have decided to move 2D development over to my ancient version of Illustrator ( the last pre cloud version, purchased outright )
I can always import the drawings into Fusion if and when I need to.
Craig : your ZAZ7361 dxf loads perfectly and although I am not as proficient in Illustrator as Fusion, I can edit away to my hearts content.

Once I have used illustrator for a while I'm sure it will all come back.

 

Tim

Tim

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

41 minutes ago, oakheart said:

Craig : your ZAZ7361 dxf loads perfectly

Good to hear. I took a break from the drawing. I now have frame H, a keel with deadwood and sternpost and a piece of laminated timber for the stem. But before I can scarph the stem to the keel I have to finish the frame drawings so I can design the building jig.

So back to drawing soon.