best size drills for pilot holes for the planking nails

[ronald305]

Hello there everyone. 

     can anyone recommend the correct drill size for pilot holes to help with the planking nails I was told by the instructions to predrill the planks to help the planking and I'm running out drills to use I'm guessing they have to be smaller the nails right otherwise they would not help hold the planks down until the glue dries. thank you 

                               Ronald 

[barkeater]

I do not use nails in my planking as they split wood and have to be removed leaving holes. I glue either clamping or applying pressure with my fingers and then I drill and use trenails which look authentic to the period I am doing. Having said that, a #72 drill bit fits most nails fairly securely and I use them for pinning furniture and where a bolt would have been used. Also, concerning trenails, the #72 bit fits the 28 or 26 size on Byrne Machines draw knife for reference.

Richard.

[Landlubber Mike]

Are you using the nails for decorative purposes or to pin the first planking?  If the latter, I wouldn't bother drilling holes.  Get yourself one of these pin insertion pliers (from Micromark or other places).  Put a pin in the tool and press into the plank.  It should hold the plank while the glue dries.  I don't push the pin all the way in, but leave the pin head partially up so I can pull the pin out with the same tool after the glue has dried.  Allows you to keep reusing the pins until they dull, bend, etc.  Much much easier than pre-drilling holes and hammering pins into the plank.  

 

They also have spring-loaded pin-pushers.  I've had mixed results with them.  One I had from Amati worked great for my first build, but then broke.  A bought a couple of others and they all had an issue or two.  The pliers above make life so much simpler.

[Jim Rogers]

If you are using them to hold planks whilst planking, don’ t. They split planks and leave unsightly holes and pri marks when removed. If you are using them for Trenails again don’t, use Chuck’s monofilament line method, looks great and is faster cleaner.

 

 For planking use these clamps from Micro Mark. Drill pilot hole in bulkhead and hold plank in place. Holes are covered up as you plank and they hold very tight.

[ronald305]

ok thanks everyone 

    to answer your question if I'm using the nails only to hold the planks in place till the glue dries YES also, I was recommended to use nails thought model space Reps and the instruction even Allen shows using nails in his HMS Victory build. on YouTube and thank you Mike about the plier idea for micro mark 

                                   Ronald

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by ronald305

[Ondras71]

I suggest the possibility of using medical rubber. It does not damage the wood and has strength. Can be used by wrapping around the torso. Ondras

[ronald305]

ok so where can I get 

[ronald305]

do you think using the Velcro bandages the nurses use at doctors' offices might work? 

[allanyed]

If you are pre-shaping the planks via either spiling, or heat and edge bending as seen in Chuck Passaro's four part video series, there is no need for clamping or nailing.  If a plank is too springy to hold after a minute it probably has not been properly pre-shaped.  There are always some tough spots like the areas aft at the transoms that can be tricky but can be managed in a variety of ways including those above.   There are also some advocates of cyanoacrylate glue that sets quickly or a combination of PVA and CA.  Try these various methods and see what works best for you. 

 

Allan

[Jaager]

4 hours ago, ronald305 said:

do you think using the Velcro bandages the nurses use at doctors' offices might work? 

I doubt that these will work as well as is wished.

 

Do a search on Amazon for non-sterile Penrose drains.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Jaager

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, allanyed said:

If you are pre-shaping the planks via either spiling, or heat and edge bending as seen in Chuck Passaro's four part video series, there is no need for clamping or nailing.  If a plank is too springy to hold after a minute it probably has not been properly pre-shaped.  There are always some tough spots like the areas aft at the transoms that can be tricky but can be managed in a variety of ways including those above.   There are also some advocates of cyanoacrylate glue that sets quickly or a combination of PVA and CA.  Try these various methods and see what works best for you. 

 

Allan

Allan's advice is worth reposting in full. If you require some sort of clamp to hold a plank's shape while the adhesive you are using takes hold, that plank hasn't been properly shaped and bent. That may often be more easily said than done, but there's no way around it and trying to overcome defects in plank fitting any other way will certainly be more work and perhaps grief than if the plank is properly shaped before it is hung. 

 

I'd only add that if your plank is properly shaped before it is offered up to the framing, use of an electric plank bender or the equivalent to apply heat to the plank at the point of attachment will speed the evaporation of the PVA's water-base and hasten the PVA's taking hold. Care must be taken not to scorch the plank face, of course.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[ronald305]

when I said Allen, I meant Allen from model space forum he is also the one who did the HMS Victory build on you tube 

[barkeater]

 

"I'd only add that if your plank is properly shaped before it is offered up to the framing, use of an electric plank bender or the equivalent to apply heat to the plank at the point of attachment will speed the evaporation of the PVA's water-base and hasten the PVA's taking hold. Care must be taken not to scorch the plank face, of course"

 

One point here. You do not want to glue a soaked or wet plank as it can shrink as it dries depending on how long you soaked it. To get the best result steam bend then let the entire plank dry before gluing. I usually glue the course I did the day before and the I'll bend the next batch once my glue is dry enough which is not long. I also trenail the batch I glued the day before so there is plenty to do and drying is not holding me up.

Edited January 26, 2023 by barkeater
quote mark did not work. my bad.

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, barkeater said:

One point here. You do not want to glue a soaked or wet plank as it can shrink as it dries depending on how long you soaked it. To get the best result steam bend then let the entire plank dry before gluing. I usually glue the course I did the day before and the I'll bend the next batch once my glue is dry enough which is not long. I also trenail the batch I glued the day before so there is plenty to do and drying is not holding me up.

Some soak, boil, or steam their wood, and it's a matter of style, I suppose. There is a range of "bend-ability" among various wood species, but from a scientific standpoint, it's the heat that softens the lignin in the wood, permitting it to bend without breaking and to harden in the shape it's bent when the lignin cools. Steaming or boiling the wood only serves as a medium for applying the heat to the wood. In full-size construction, steaming is used because it is the best method of heating a full-size plank or frame timber, not because the wood needs to be wetted. It's absolutely true that a wet piece of wood may well shrink when it dries. There's no reason it needs to be wet, as illustrated by Chuck Passaro's planking tutorials.

[allanyed]

20 hours ago, ronald305 said:

I was recommended to use nails thought model space Reps and the instruction even Allen shows using nails in his HMS Victory build. on YouTube

Can you post a link for this video?  

Thank you 

Allan

Edited January 26, 2023 by allanyed

[ronald305]

if you go to YouTube and type in HMS Victory build it should pull up model space Victory build or go to Model Space web site because I don't know how to send you the link sorry 

[allanyed]

3 hours ago, ronald305 said:

YouTube and type in HMS Victory build i

Yep, I tried that earlier and there are several dozen but none by anyone named Allen or Model Space.   How do you find it if you do not have a website?

 Thanks again