Brass Guns - Long Term Experience?

[Coyote_6]

I am building a Constructo model with some beautiful natural wood colors.  My vision is to keep with the natural theme and leave the guns brass. 

 

Does anyone have pics of brass cannon on a ship they built decades ago?  I am polishing them for install but after rigging I think they will have to be left to the elements.  How will they look in 20 or 30 years?

 

The left gun below is 20+ years of tarnish, the right was polished tonight.

 

Once I get them polished I will paint the carriages like this and then get them rigged.

 

Any thoughts or pictures appreciated.  Thanks!!

 

[Dr PR]

This gun was shiny brass in 1969. It hasn't been polished since. It is on a Billings Santa Maria kit - my first kit build.

 

 

That is about 55 years of tarnish.

 

If you want the guns to stay shiny spray them with clear lacquer or varnish.

Edited February 7 by Dr PR

[Coyote_6]

@Dr PR  That is amazing!  Any regrets on not blackening them?  It definitely looks the business.

 

My fear with clear would be non-uniform coatings and non-uniform tarnish.  Natural looks good after 50 years there.  Different, but good.

 

So many decisions Captain!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Guess blackening is OK if you WANT the barrels to be black.    I prefer natural brass toning, so I don't polish at all and just use the brass as is.

Edited February 11 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[Lieste]

Most ship guns, especially later are cast iron (much cheaper) painted with a dark anti-corrosion. Often made with lamp-black, but dark browns are used by some navies.

Copper based guns are seen for the signal/short practice/boat gun, but otherwise they are rarer than iron ordnance in the C18th and C19th.(Also field guns and howitzers for land service are usually copper-alloy gunmetal.)

[Keith Black]

 Steve, the brass and natural wood is a good look. Whatever you use to preserve the shiny brass make sure the process is easily reversible. That way in fifty years a good cleaning won't be a taffy pulling contest. 

Edited February 8 by Keith Black

[Dr PR]

Steve,

 

I think blackening the guns is good advice. If you do coat the shiny pieces, in time the coating will crack or degenerate, allowing the atmosphere to get to the brass. You could get corrosion under the clear coating.

 

However your Prince is a very pretty model that showcases all of the natural woods that you used - and not painted all over to hide the wood. I do think the shiny brass pieces would look nice on that model. But no bets on what it will look like in 20 years.

[wefalck]

Sure, a model with shiny brass guns can show off good handcraft. I you want to stay them like that, you can brush them in zapon-varnish as used to protect silver-ware.

 

Otherwise, it is a question, whether the prototype was bronze, cast-iron or (later) steel. At all times guns were not left to themselves, but various methods of corrosion protection where applied.

 

The archetypal black colour, of course, comes from black paint as applied mostly to cast-iron guns.

 

Bronze guns were given what the artists would call a patina. There is a wide range of recipes for that, resulting in a slightly metallic brown or dark green. The bright green as seen on coppered roofs is a sign of corrosion and would not be seen on guns in service.

 

Cast-iron and steel-guns in some navies were also rubbed down with vinegar, which resulted in the formation of 'rust', actually in this case ferric acetate mixed with ferric oxyhdrate. This rust layer then was solidified by rubbing it with lineseed oil. De facto one created a dark reddish brown paint (like caput mortuum) in situ, protecting the gun from further corrosion.

 

In later years, when breech-loading steel guns were introduced, the vinegar method could have damaged the mechanism, so brown paint of a similar appearance was used instead. 

 

[Fritzlindsay]

On 2/7/2025 at 10:49 AM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

Livers of sulfur has to be diluted and tested to get the right effect

I hope someone has experience with this.  Liver of Sulfur blackens clean copper instantly but I have never had luck using it to blacken brass.  I have read that adding iron powder helps, but I have not tried it.

Fritz

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

6 hours ago, Fritzlindsay said:

I hope someone has experience with this.  Liver of Sulfur blackens clean copper instantly but I have never had luck using it to blacken brass.  I have read that adding iron powder helps, but I have not tried it.

Fritz

   You are right!    I was thinking of copper ... and have edited my comment, since I tried adding tartaric acid, citric acid and potassium dichromate to the liver of sulfur on brass - with no effect but to CLEAN off natural patina (as should muriatic acid - hydrochloric acid concrete cleaner).  Yet cleaning brass appears to be step one with brass blackening products such as Birchwood Casey brass black or Jax Pewter black.  Supposedly vinegar and salt are supposed to act on cleaned brass over time, or ammonia might be faster ... but I have not done this myself yet.