Paul Salomone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share #31 Posted February 21, 2013 Hello all, The third part related with the construction of the forward superstructure. The second skin of the outer walls, well under way. A front view. A side view. A close up shot, showing the amount of stiffeners and reinforcing struts. These were not just placed there for fun. These were fitted in strategic places, in order to keep the structure steady, while eliminating any future unpleasant distortion. A close up view of the reinforcing used for the rear. The finishing process underway. A clear view of the width of the ventilation ducts. An elevational view of the superstructure with turret "Bruno" in place, together with it's corresponding barbette. An imposing side view. A view from the rear of the turret. The last part shall follow soon. Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share #32 Posted February 21, 2013 Hi guys, The last part related with the construction of the forward superstructure. Here goes. The final reinforcements put in place. A close up view of the circular corner. The circular corner on the other side. A close up view. Starting off with the final part. The top piece, which shall be the deck on which the armoured bridge and the open bridge shall be placed; together with the tower and radar. The panel walls being fitted in, together with the stiffeners and reinforcements. Another view. A generic view of the whole assembly to date. A close up view. A rear view A side view, with some figures on parade, showing the element of greatness of this ship. A front view. An elevational view. Shall post more pictures as soon as I find some spare time. Unfortunately, I am at work and have to produce some shop drawings for approval this week - so that makes me a very busy operations manager. Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted February 21, 2013 Share #33 Posted February 21, 2013 Hi Paul It’s good to have you and your monstrous yet elegant beauty back online! Keep up the terrific work. Cheers Peter Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackoWolf Posted February 23, 2013 Share #34 Posted February 23, 2013 No problem, work and family always come first. Will be waiting for the next update. Quote Wacko Joe Go MSW :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anja Posted February 23, 2013 Share #35 Posted February 23, 2013 Hello Paul, It's good to see you and your wonderful build of the Scharnhorst back again. Take care, Anja Quote Those we loved but lost are no longer where they were, but are always where we are. In the gallery: Albatros 1840 - Constructo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share #36 Posted February 24, 2013 Good afternoon all, Brian, Peter, Joe, Anja - thanks for following my build and for the kind words. Just found some time to post more pictures. These pictures are related to the construction of the secondary armament turrets. As usual the main construction is carried out in 1mm thick cardboard, while the gun barrels are made from aluminium round bars and turned on my lathe. Here goes. The main font of information and research - The AJ-Press book - German Naval Artillery Volumes 1, 2, 3 & 4. A 3D view from the same book. The four bases, fo the secondary turrets. A top view, showing also the David Mc'Gregor scale plan of the Scharnhorst. The turrets well under way. The first turret, displaying the stiffeners and partition walls A view from the rear. Another rear view of the three turrets. A view of the stiffeners which are fitted between the partition walls. These give additional strength to the whole assembly, in order to allow the cardboard turret to bear the weight and the leverage of the aluminium gun barrels; without distortion. Another view. A front view. An elevational view. The four turrets, ready for the next step. A close up view. A close up view, showing the stiffener later fitted at the rear of the turret. Such stiffeners, will eliminate any distortion, especially during the months between winter and summer, and change in ambient humidity levels. The second part shall follow. Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share #37 Posted February 24, 2013 Hello all, The second part related with the costruction of the secondary turrets. Here goes. A view of the stiffener layer fitted at the rear part of the turret. Another view. A close up view. A front view of the four turrets. An elevational view. The start of the finish - laying the top skin at the rear of the turret. A view of the four turrets. Another view. A close up view of the front. A close up view from the rear Start off with the aluminium gun barrels. Another view of the works in progress. Note the marker tape. these mark each step size. Another view. The first gun barrel, ready for polishing. Nine barrels, three more to go. The twelve barrels required for the secondary armament are ready for detailing and finish. Inserting a barrel in place and checking for correct fitting. Now time for a cup of tea, and shall be posting more in due course. Rob Wood, Sir Blue Henry and augie 3 Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trussben Posted February 24, 2013 Share #38 Posted February 24, 2013 Serioulsly Impressive Paul, Im really enjoying watching this, keep hitting us with updates there mate! ben Quote Current builds: HMS Pegasus TFFM. HMS Winchelsea. Completed builds: ECHO cross section.18th C Longboat.QA Barge. Medway Longboat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey1847 Posted February 24, 2013 Share #39 Posted February 24, 2013 Glad to see yo back too... Can not wait to see again the superp work of the antennas. I have a question, it might be silly. The main structure, the turrets and everything of the upper structure is made out of 1mm board and then you cover it with plastic card? Good luck! Daniel. Quote In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackoWolf Posted February 24, 2013 Share #40 Posted February 24, 2013 Paul, AS lways your work is excellent. This is going to be one be beautiful ship when it is all said and done. Keep the Post coming. Quote Wacko Joe Go MSW :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjors Posted February 24, 2013 Share #41 Posted February 24, 2013 Hi Paul, I'm still impressed by your work Let those pics coming! Sjors Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foremast Posted February 24, 2013 Share #42 Posted February 24, 2013 Hi Paul, great work! Your new discussion doesn't make regret the first one. I'll follow very interested your work. I've never made you a question: why did you choose just the "Scharnorst"? Foremast the texan 1 Quote If any of you cry at my funeral, I'll never speak to you again! (Stan Laurel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share #43 Posted February 25, 2013 Good morning all, Thank you all for looking in, and for your support. Hello Foremast - no problem, I can answer your question, which is very valid indeed. Well - I was presented with a Heller produced 1:400 scale model kit of the Scharnhorst, on my sixth birthday. I cannot say that I did a good job on that. Being my very first model, and without any help, I tried my best. But the result was more than degradable. But for all intents and purposes, that was my first build and was proud of it. I used to spend hours playing around with it, and even had it's share of my bath tub. When I grew older, I seemed to develop a passion for three gunned turreted ships; and I can say that my favourites are the Yamato, Scharnhorst, Imperatrizia Maria, Viribus Unitis, Roma and Vittorio Veneto. At the age of 16, I enrolled with a scale modelling club, and obviously developed further my modelling skills, which finally gave way to the birth of the 1:72nd scale model of the Scharnhorst. After the Scharnhorst, I plan to build the German WW2 aircraft carrier - the Graf Zeppelin. Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foremast Posted February 25, 2013 Share #44 Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Hi Paul, your tale looks like my story. At the age of 11 my father made me a gift, the (Heller?) Bismark's model 1:700. I made and re-made it lots of times, even in 1:350 scale (Tamya) ... now I have the full model in 1:200 scale to build; I don't know if I'll make or give it to my son (12 years old), so even he will be able to tell someone how he has started his modeller career. Your list of favourites is very interesting, in particular Viribus Unitis, that wonderful - and unlucky - Imperial battleship of IWW. Time ago I made Scharnorst's model and I tried to reproduce the camouflage painting, a sort of green-dotted pattern thicker in the superstructure. Will you paint the model in a mimetic pattern? Edited February 25, 2013 by Foremast Quote If any of you cry at my funeral, I'll never speak to you again! (Stan Laurel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry w Posted February 25, 2013 Share #45 Posted February 25, 2013 Hello Paul, Nice to see you back, Larry here I had to re register , so have reload pictures of trawler , which, now on the water , with sound , see you later cheers Larry....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted February 26, 2013 Share #46 Posted February 26, 2013 superb work Paul.......those turret s look great! the work you do is amazing! Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share #47 Posted February 26, 2013 Good morning all, Thanks for looking in guys. Hi Foremast. The camouflage planned is the dazzle scheme she wore during the months of March to July 1943. Hi Larry - good to see you back. Hi Popeye - it's always a pleasure to read your posts. Today, I am posting the pictures related with the construction of the midship and aft superstructure. As always the construction is carried out with cardboard. Planning out the lines of the deck. Not an easy task at all, I had to apply some of the geometry, I learned at school. The deck, ready for the next step. A longitudinal view of the deck. A second layer is fitted on to the first layer. This is the guide for the superstructure outer skin walls. A closer look. A longitudinal view of the whole deck. A view from the underside, displaying the second layer. Fitting in the walls. Another view. Fitting in the reinforcing and stiffening supports. Please note the position and thickness. These are planned in such a manner to eliminate future material distortion and other mishaps, due to change in temperature and humidity. A close view, showing the thickness of the supports and the guiding strips, which aid in strengthening the whole assembly. The reinforcing well under way. A close view, displaying the number of cardboard laminations. These give enormous strength to the whole structure. A longitudinal view. The whole assembly nearing finish. The second part shall follow. Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share #48 Posted February 26, 2013 Hello all, The second part related with the construction of the midship and aft superstructure. A longitudinal view. A close view. The whole assembly is now ready for the finishing and detailing. Another view. A view of the superstructure. A close view, displaying the array of the windows. The superstructure in place. A rear view of the whole assembly. A top rear view, showing the area to be filled in with the introduction of the after structure and the aircraft hanger. Will try to find some time to post more pictures. Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted February 26, 2013 Share #49 Posted February 26, 2013 that is aewsome! unless you plan to light it, you might not be able to see inside.......but you have a lot of structural detail in there! really super work there Paul! Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjdale Posted February 26, 2013 Share #50 Posted February 26, 2013 Super work Paul. I'm really enjoying this "second time around" Cheers, Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjors Posted February 26, 2013 Share #51 Posted February 26, 2013 I'm with Grant Paul. Even the second time it looks great! Sjors Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted February 26, 2013 Share #52 Posted February 26, 2013 You can almost feel what she is becoming. Impressive! Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foremast Posted February 26, 2013 Share #53 Posted February 26, 2013 Hi Paul, I've found these mimetic patterns. I've deleted celtic crosses because I don't know if this forum admits this kind of symbol. The scheme march-July 43 (as shown in the original tag) is the second, wehereas the first is until february '43 and the third since september '43. Correct? Regards Alex augie 1 Quote If any of you cry at my funeral, I'll never speak to you again! (Stan Laurel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted February 26, 2013 Share #54 Posted February 26, 2013 You have raised an interesting question on insignias, Alex. As a modeler, I have my own opinion on this issue. But I am curious as to what 'policy', if any, MSW has. Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foremast Posted February 26, 2013 Share #55 Posted February 26, 2013 You have raised an interesting question on insignias, Alex. As a modeler, I have my own opinion on this issue. But I am curious as to what 'policy', if any, MSW has. I think, when the theme is the historical reproduction, any insignia should be admitted: it is an important part of the ship, as shown in a particular era, period, year. Like historical movies ... no one can think to erase some images of the film or censor flags, symbols, or other similar stuff ... they are part of the movie itself. In my country, heavily beaten by dictatorship before and during WWII is forbidden every apology of that period and its symbols, but it is admitted either their reproduction or exhibition for historycal, artistic, discussion reasons. I don't know extra-Italy rules, neither this forum's policy, so ... in the dubt and for the respect of all people's sensitiveness, I have preferred to erase the celtic crosses. WackoWolf and mtaylor 2 Quote If any of you cry at my funeral, I'll never speak to you again! (Stan Laurel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted February 26, 2013 Share #56 Posted February 26, 2013 I share your views and am well aware of the sensitivity issues. I am still curious about any policies that exist here. Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackoWolf Posted February 27, 2013 Share #57 Posted February 27, 2013 If I remember right, Paul had show us a picture of a ship back in the day and these was a lot of talk about a flag that was use that the model sat on. So I have to agree when not sure don't show it. If you want to know for sure PM a Admin and ask him or her the question. mtaylor 1 Quote Wacko Joe Go MSW :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted February 27, 2013 Share #58 Posted February 27, 2013 Thanks Joe. Think I'll let sleeping dogs lie. mtaylor 1 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Salomone Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share #59 Posted February 27, 2013 Good morning all, Well now, that is quite a discussion. yes I have to agree with your concern and curiosity. Well, I can only say one thing. We cannot mix history with politics. We are a scale modelling group of people, who share a common hobby - ships. From my point of view, weather the ship is German Russian, English, American, French, Italian, Chinese or of any other country or origin; one had to reproduce the model as was. With regards to the German Swastika, this is a rather silly situation. Today one can but a scale model kit of a WW2 German aircraft, armoured vehicle, or ship, where these all come without the cross of course; only to be purchased separately from an aftermarket decal supplier. I have only one question regards this. Is the German cross deleted just due to legal issues, or to allow these aftermarket suppliers to make more money out of our pockets? Now back to posting more progress pictures. Today, I am posting the progress pictures related to the armoured bridge, which is situated at the lower part of the forward super structure. Here goes The base of the armoured bridge. The outer skin together with the top part and the middle stiffener wall. A rear view of the construction in progress. The stiffeners and reinforcements fitted in place. A closer view. The top part fitted in place. The top section added, together with a second wall skin. A front view of the command bridge. A view from the rear. The top part added. The command bridge together with the armoured bridge. A close view of the armoured bridge in place. A longitudinal view. An arial view of the armoured bridge in place. Shall try to post more pictures today. . BANYAN, augie and Rob Wood 3 Quote Cheers Paul NEVER RETREAT - NEVER SURRENDER JUST DO IT YOUR WAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK Current Build: 1:72nd German WWII Heavy Battle Cruiser DKM Scharnhorst http://modelshipworld...1:72ndDKMScharnhorst/ Future Build Logs: German WWII Captured Flower Class Corvette. German WWII Armed Trawler. German WWII Aircraft Carrier - Graf Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey1847 Posted February 27, 2013 Share #60 Posted February 27, 2013 Superb work and a pretty good expalanation about the issue of the flag. I still can not believe the whole thing is being made up out of card board! It´s amazing. Which tool you use to bore the circular windows? They all look straight ans aligned. I guess there must be lots of them with different diameters. Do you use some kind of extrusion hand made press? I´ll keep watching! Daniel. Quote In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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