HMC Sherbourne 1763 by Hollander-jan - Caldercraft - 1/64

[Hollander-jan]

Sure what you say but never the less your answer is helpful and you put much time and effort in them that is the case.

 

Sorry to hear about your bits lets hope the other ones arrive shortly.

 

Jan

Edited January 21, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[Brakster]

Great to see your build coming along! 

 

Even though I was joking about it earlier during Christmas time, it´s starting to come along nicely! 

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you Brakster. Hope to see you sometimes on the log so you can give comment and see my progress. Give my greetings to the girl and have a nice time in Sweden.

 

Jan

[Hollander-jan]

Hello Sherbourne loggers and all the others. I have a question about cannon rigging. Here is a picture of a cannon aboard a ship. The question is, because I can not recollect where a got it, is this correct for English war ships. I find the rigging easier to do then other riggings.

 

 

 

This is the cannon in question.

 

Jan

Edited January 22, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[amateur]

I can tell you were this canon is living: Batavia, Lelystad

 

The rigging of this gun is incomplete: there is no breachrope ('broektouw') that is intended to counteract the recoil of the gun.

Also, the tackle intended to run the gun in, is not hooked to the ring in the deck, but also hooked into the same ringbolt in the hull to which the tackle intended to run the gun out is hooked.

 

So: breachrope missing, and of the two tackles shown in this pic ones intended to go forward, the other backward.

 

Jan

[tkay11]

Here is the illustration from the AOTS Cutter Alert:

 

 

Tony

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

I would think the ringbolt in the photograph is in rather an odd position to be for the running-in tackle – at least on English warships. The ringbolts were normally placed some feet away directly behind each gun, as shown in the Alert book drawing, and close to the centreline as far as hatches, etc., would have allowed. This would have enabled the gun to run fully in, normally under its own recoil. As Jan said, the breech rope is missing.

[amateur]

Hello Kester,

 

Yes, I know that the ringbolts are a bit awkward... The gun however is fully run in in this pic, so that it is close to the wheels is understandable, but still....

Has perhaps something to do with the fact that the gun-reconstructions were done years after the ship was build....

I checked the drawings: in Batavia the ringbolts are plced on the so called 'schaarstokken', the heavier pieces of wood running from front to end. As it is a merchant ship, the area between these schaarstokken are almost entirely used for the main hatches to get the cargo into the deeper hull. There is no way in Batavia to get the ringbolts near the ships centerline, as was done tin the heavier ships of the line. Although, I checked on the zweidecker as photographed by Winter and there aoos the ringbolts are placed in the schaarstokken, and not on the decks center line.

 

Jan

Edited January 22, 2014 by amateur

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

Ok, thanks for the information. Different ships, different long splices, as they say...

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you Jan, Tony and Kester for the answers you gave. The matter is simple I have to do the rigging and all the small knots to get it right. ok in due course we will see to that. And of course I should have looked in AOTS Cutter Alert which is on my pc..

 

After a lot of careful cluing sanding and woodworking with model knifes the hull is nearly finished the ports are open. It is all in all a satisfactory thing to look at. I did the best I can do for now but learned a great deal, next time will be different for now it is good to see that she is coming along. After a bit of painting we will see what to do with the deck have to do a bit of study about that one.

 

Jan 

[Hollander-jan]

Her is a question for all of you:

 

what is the picture below

 

A - a go kart

 

B - a cannon and carriage

 

C - a monkey with a banana

 

D - non of the above

 

 

have fun

 

Jan

Edited January 23, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[Sjors]

Jan,

 

I think it is a part of a model ship 

 

[Hollander-jan]

hoi Sjors,

 

Thats what it is. Made from material out of the box. 

 

Jan

[amateur]

Sounds as if you don't like this OOB-version of a gun....

 

Jan

[Stockholm tar]

Difficult one that Jan, erm, erm...

[Hollander-jan]

Jan OOB is Out Of The Box yes indeed I am not very pleased with it not by my own making and not by the material. I think it could be better and I will try so by again using the OOB material. But I find it hard to do so you understand.

 

jan

Edited January 24, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[chester010_NL]

Her is a question for all of you:

 

what is the picture below

 

A - a go kart

 

B - a cannon and carriage

 

C - a monkey with a banana

 

D - non of the above

 

P1220100.JPG

 

have fun

 

Jan

 

I would like to see a money with a banana on top of the ship!

 

Regards,

Wouter

[Hollander-jan]

I have a problem with the deck planking. I made margin planks (they have to be shaped in the right size)

from left over wood from the deck cut out. 

What is the problem:

 

1 - the margin planks are  off color with the deck.

 

2 - I do not know if I am on the right track with these margin planks

 

3 - I realy have no idea howe it will look when done

 

4 - is it better to abandon this margin planking and go for planking without them

 

 

Can any off you give me some advise?

 

Jan

 

pictures of the situation dry fit on paper.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[tkay11]

I can't answer your question about the colour of the margin planks, I might suggest that if that is all the wood you have, then, as long as the difference is consistent, it might even look quite nice.

 

As to whether they should be there, it is probably more accurate to have them. It looks as though you are on the path to shaping the margins nicely so it would be a shame to do away with the idea altogether.

 

You then have to decide whether you joggle (indent) the planks into the margin, or nib the planks so that they do not indent the margin. There are rules to follow for both nibbing and joggling so that the ends of the planks do not come to a point. It looks as though you have not yet glued the planks to the deck, so you have plenty of flexibility left.

 

Tony

[olliechristo]

I have noticed many peoples margin planks are a different color, including mine on my build and it looks quite good.. I was hesitant about the margin plank, but very glad i did it..   i think you are doing very well here... I agree with what TONY said...  ^^^  Ollie

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you Tony and Olie at least I have the notion now to go on with this project. Yes Tony the planks are just placed on paper with that what i have now on margings. So there is room to manoeuvre.

 

I wil go on and keep you posted this is a real project and there is on some point no way back so I have to be carefull.

 

Jan 

[NAZGÛL]

 

What to say about the end product is is what it is. I have learned a lot. About model ship building and about 

how I can do it better. First be more patient in working out, it will come in the end. Second technique. 

 

I am satisfied with the result it looks ok with all the faults and mishapes it is what i could do at 

the moment. And there are musch better plankings than this one.

 

It is my ship and thats what it is with all his or her inperfection. And most of all one side is musch 

better than the other side.

 

 

 

 

 

P1100068.JPG

 

 

 

 

Jan, I like your approach in model building. I also share this view, I sometimes keep my mistakes as lessons learned. I'm building the Vasa and I've looked at reference of the real ship alot when buiding her. The real ship was far from perfect and in fact has lots of wonkyness and unsymmetrical features. I find that beautyful and try to incorporate that into my model whenever I can. Point is that old ships weren't perfect, at least not from the 1600's. I think your build has personality and soul and I enjoy that. You can be proud of your build.

 

 

/Matti

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

I agree with what has already been said.

 

On a ship under construction, the supply of deck planking would probably not have been all the same shade, since very likely it came from a variety of sources. What modellers normally do when laying the deck, is to mix the planking if it varies – so that there are slightly different shades across whole deck. I don't know whether you have done that, although I can see a few different shades in the deck you have already laid, but I wouldn't worry overmuch about the margin plank. As has been said this was often a different shade in any case. I think you should, however, fit one as this was normal practice.

 

It will also give you practice at 'joggling' the planks into the margin plank. I don't know how much of your deck is actually glued down, but it would seem that you have begun the joggling on the starboard side, and there shouldn't of course be any gaps at the bow. I believe the rules for joggling are: 1) the plank should be joggled, if the intersection where it crosses the margin plank (down its length) is more than twice its width; 2) the cut at the 'hood' end of the plank, is never less than half its width. As said, a plank should never come to a point.

 

When all is said and done, and when all the fittings are in place, you probably won't notice the deck in any case. However, it's good to know yourself that you've done it the right way!

 

Hope this helps.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Stockholm tar

[Sailor1234567890]

The margin plank was not necessarily built of the same material as the deck. Decks were usually made of teak. That's no guarantee that Sherbourne's deck was teak but odds are. The margin plank served to add strength. It wasn't necessarily made of the same material as the deck. Often times it was of a thicker material than the deck. This provided extra strength. Strength was in issue in this area and the use of a stronger wood was often a way to provide that added strength required. Don't feel bad about the colour being different. Odds are it was different. It looks good, I'd continue with what you have. Keep it up. Looks great to me.

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you all for the kind words and all the advise about color and so on. It helps me to procede with this deck project. 

 

Kester nothing is glued it just placed on paper to see wat has to be done. In the end it wil look good I hope. For now it is a strugle but we will get there in the end. 

 

Jan 

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

I rather thought that was the case. Good luck, I'm sure you will make a good job of it.

[Hollander-jan]

Nasgûl, I thank you for what you said and appriciated verry much. I have done some building in the past but this is more difficult than that wat i did. Never the less I do what I can. Luckely I am a determent man and do not give up easely. So in the end there will be a ship and my skills wil have been developed. Bonus is the fun I have to do it.

 

Skol

 

Jan

[Hollander-jan]

28 of januari after a day of cutting trowing away start over this what I can do. It is not very nice but the best I am able of.

 

1/4 of the deck with tape in place.

 

Jan

 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

Not bad. However, most decks are usually laid beginning from the aft end moving forward, and from the centre line outward to the margin plank. Since it doesn't look as though you've glued the planks you have laid, but just taped them, you might want to have a rethink. You'll probably then find it easier to gauge which planks need joggling at the bow and stern, and with the uncut margin plank in place, when you get to that point.

 

I don't know if you intend having butts, or joints, between your planks, but you might also perhaps think about that. Typical planks are around 20'-25' long, although to get the right pattern, you should start off with a few shorter ones in places, at the stern. You could also put some caulking between the planks, or shade one edge.

 

These are only suggestions and, of course, you can continue as you are. However, perhaps you might try planking from the middle on the other side, and see how it goes?

 

 

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you Kester for this reply. As you might well feel I am not happy with how it looks. I have put the whole thing aside for a while because when I go on it will take me off.  I am thinking off an other approch and do it all over again like you say  start from  the center and going outwards. There is enough wood to do it again. I have even wood to make a new margin (bought it today). I give a good thought  and deside what to do. To cut the margin plank as I did was way to let it fit But again I give a rest and try to think of doing it all over from the center to the margin with new marging planks it is worth the effort.

 

Thanks again for your advise.

 

Jan