Jump to content

Rattlesnake by scott larkins - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64


Recommended Posts

Okay boys and girls, as I've been saying, I finally got my Rattlesnake kit as promised for Christmas.  Last night I sat up rather late into the night to read the opening pages.  Yawn, had to go to bed after the first 5 pages.  Today I finished and got the keel out and started working.  Remembering to take my time, read the instructions and look at the plans several times before making a move.

 

As previous people had mentioned in their posts about the Model shipways drawings, yes, they do not match up exactly to the cut out wood pieces.  Sadly I was hoping that it was a fluke but it is true :-(  Anyways, knowing this, it really did not hinder the start of my project.  I've also read where the wood is extremely fragile.  Yep, found that out already too.  Didn't even realize that I had my finger too close to one of the bulkhead seperation spaces and as I was flipping over the keel to put pencil markings on the other side I heard the faintest of "snicks"  "Son of a Witch!"  Good thing I was in the glueing process.  LOL.  Anyways, here is the start.

 

Please comment all you want on my progress and offer any suggestions you can.  It has been a long time since I built a wood ship and my first to this scale and detail.

 

post-8513-0-87325200-1402189037_thumb.jpg

 

post-8513-0-47935900-1402189081.jpg

 

Here is the keel with the suggested markings as per the instructions.  Got the rabbet line on, the water line on and the bulkhead markings.  I saw where one modeler sanded the rabbet line to size.  Not wanting to really work with chisels I think I'll take the extra effort to sand this to size.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the heads up Ken.  I just cut out the bulk heads a little while ago and will have to keep in mind the frailty (SP?) of these pieces.

 

Okay, captains log 123013.2302.  Always wanted to say that.  LOL.  The last few days, or should I say nights, have been busy.  But trying to keep in mind that I must work slowly or mess things up in my haste.  It is so difficult to work slowly.  I just want to tear into this model and move, move, move.  Anyways.  Pics and progress are listed below.

 

post-8513-0-09043800-1396094524.jpg

Port bow rabbet line.  Was extremely nervous doing these cuts.  I was always worried that I'd push the chisel too hard and snap the keel right off.  Tried to keep the cuts and sanding to between 1/32 and 1/16 in depth.  Closer to 1/16.  No easy task.  I fear my line wavers a bit.  I did use a piece of planking to double check.  I think if I had to do this again I would have sanded the rabbet line before putting the keel on.  I would have gotten a better angle on the wood.

 

post-8513-0-66469700-1388462874.jpg

Port stern rabbet line.  Starboard side is just like this side but I think the port side is a little better as I used the starboard side to cut my teeth on.  As everyone has suggested, move slowly and take frequent measurements.  I used a combo of chisel and nail files for these.

 

post-8513-0-94949200-1388462938.jpg

Bow taper.  At least I hope this is correct.  I looked at the big plans and they mentioned to taper the stem.  Seemed to make sense for the ship's ability to cut the water.  Let me know if I just destroyed the ship.  Or don't...... I might cry.  Only the part that would actually cut the water was tapered.  The stem goes back to its normal width as it approaches the figure head and the bottom of the keel.

 

post-8513-0-45638700-1396094580.jpg

And finally the etched out portion for the figure head.  You can kind of see the stem taper a little better or differently from this angle.  It didn't seem to come out very well in the pic but I think I kind of like the bow taper.

 

Comments are helpful.  As I said above, I just cut out the bulk heads.  I saw a post, Prett's I think, and will be doing outlines on paper of the bulheads to see if the slot is actually centered.  Tried to fit the bulkheads on the center keel tonight but I couldn't get a single one to easily fit.  After spending the last 4 hours in the hospital with my mom I was too tired to try to hard to get them to fit.  Felt like I had boxing gloves on tonight.  I'll cross that bridge after I outline and fold the paper bulkheads.  Any additional hints before I move forward are welcome.  I will be reviewing all of your logs probably tomorrow.  You all have a good night.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, got some sleep, wife off to work, Mom still in the hospital so it's just me and the dogs.  Thought I'd get a little prep work done.  As I said before, after reviewing Zev or Prett build log, forget which one, I took a look at the symmetry (SP?) of the bulk heads.  Then I had an appifany(SP?).   Instead of relying on bad angling of my pencil and poor cutting skills, why not photo copy the bulk heads, roughly cut them out, and then put them on a light table to line up the lines.  Take all of my human errors out of the picture.  Since I didn't have a light table to fold / line the lines up with, I used my south facing doorwall and an unusually sunny day in Michigan.  So I roughly cut out the photo copied bulk heads and lined up the lines on the window.  Results are below.

 

post-8513-0-62080600-1396094658.jpg

Here are the two better of the four bad bulk heads.  I had to make sure to cut along the woodline and not the shadow line for the center slot.  Very important to remember.  Probably will not have to shim these but I'll see.

 

post-8513-0-95323600-1396094702.jpg

Here are the two worst of the four.  Note I marked which side would have to be sanded.  I'll shim it when I test fit it to the center keel.

 

Hope this method of testing the center keel slot will help someone in the future.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

01/01/14

 

Got a little down time between snow shoveling.  Finished rough fitting the bulk heads to the center keel.  Work wasn't too hard.  I had to sand both sides of the bulk head keel slot and the actual center keel slots in order for the bulkheads to fit.  I used one of those larger nail files that you can pick up and most any store.  Believe it or not, that thinkness of that large two sided nail file is the same thickness of the wood for this kit.  Wow, was that a lucky break.  This allowed me to sand both sides of the slots at the same time with the same amount of pressure.  Until I figured this out I was worried that I might sand one side of the slots more than the other and thus end up making things off center.  Pics follow for the rough fittings.

 

post-8513-0-29816900-1388603280_thumb.jpg

 

post-8513-0-15787000-1388603312_thumb.jpg

As you can see from these two pics, as everyone else has experienced, the bulk heads do not all line up perfectly with the beard line and thus shimming and trimming will have to be done.  Can't say I was surprised when I saw this.

 

post-8513-0-82096300-1388603578_thumb.jpg

post-8513-0-70985200-1388603599_thumb.jpg

Not sure how you guys transfer the water line reference mark from the drawings to the bulkheads.  Couldn't find any specific references on anyone's log.  So here is my idea.  I drew out the reference line on the drawings, as seen in pic 1 and then will lay the bulkead on the drawing, lineing it up with the drawings lines and place my straight edge on the bulk head and line it up with the extended WL reference line from the drawing and basically "transfer" the line from the drawing to the wood.

 

How did you guys do this?  Is there a better way?

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D

 

Nice update.

 

Just so proper credit is received; Zev and Eric confirmed that the bulkheads were not cut correctly. I only brought the fact that there was a problem to their attention. I will try to link your post in my log so anyone who reads mine can see your fix

 

As for the water line I did mark it and it caused me a lot of confusion due to the issue with the bulkheads which were unknown to me at the time. I would recommend that you use the decks as home base and then make any corrections to the bulkheads by either adding or subtracting wood. The decks are much harder to correct and a good reference for the rest of the build.

 

I see that you have not yet faired the bulkheads. Some have said not to: but because your fillers will be using the faired side I would consider doing at least A and M. I would also pin temporary  battens to the bulkheads before gluing using the 1/32nd wood to check the hull before committing.

 

I also removed the upper deck supports on all my bulkheads. I lost track of the breakage but it was in the twenties.  I would not recommend this but I would say adding another piece of wood that runs cross grained to strengthen them would not be a bad idea. The 1/16 supplied planking would be a good choice.  If you do be sure to put it on the "hidden" side.

 

Chuck brought this to my attention. Mount your bulkheads starting from the center. This way any error is not amplified throughout the hull.

 

:pirate41: :pirate41: :pirate41:

Last but not least. Will you be using a building board.

Edited by JPett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Jon,

 

Yeah, so far it's just a rough fitting of the bulk heads.  I've read so much about messed up bulk heads that I'm a little nervous on this series of steps.  I know how critical getting these right is.  I'm kind of confused with your water line comment.  Should I not use the drawings to set the bulk head water lines?

 

I haven't looked yet to see how bad the deck lines match up with the center keel.  I've left the wood in for some of the bulkheads like A - C and the back ones to help prevent breaking those pieces of wood as you have said.  I'll remove those last or very close to last.

 

No, I have not faired the bulkheads yet.  Fairing means sanding them to the proper plank angle right?  That was a question of mine.  Have people done that before putting the bulk heads in or after?  The instructions talk about doing it before they are put in place.  I worry about doing it before because I am not sure of the proper angles that each bulk head needs.  I definetly will do A and M and I would like to do it on the two other bulk heads leading up to them.  Battons are the pieces of wood that run down the length of the bulk heads right?  I think I've seen pics of people pinning them along the bulk heads.  How do these really help though?  I'm not sure of the purpose of putting them on.

 

Yes, I have a building board, I just haven't put it in my pictures.  I also have square blocks of metal to help make sure the bulk heads are perpendicular to the center keel.

 

Thanks for the help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D

 

I marked my waterline just as you did and used it to align the bulkheads. Small discrepancies in my work along with the issue in the kit caused all of my bulkheads to be off somewhere. Had I made sure at least one area was correct it would have been much easier. I am not saying "not" to mark the water line but to use in conjunction with the deck. It is best to shoot for having one area that is right to measure from so you can easily correct problems elsewhere. I see in your picture that "C" is a little high and "F" a little low. This is fine and easily fixed provided "C" isn't also high on the deck side with "F" being low there too.

 

Don't worry about the angle. I took measurements. transferred them to the bulkheads, connected the dots and sanded. The correct angle is created when you sand to the mark and is also not constant but changes throughout the bulkhead. Other then "A" and "M" I would suggest sanding the others just a tad less. You resand them to fair the hull later anyways. "A" and "M" are helpful for fitting the fillers.

 

The bulkheads either not reaching the rabbet or running it over is a different issue but a very minor one and easily fixed.

 

Yes the battens are pieces of wood that run down the length of the hull. They are very useful, I highly recommend you spend some time with them. They saved my hull from extinction. Use the 1/32nd wood as it will bend like the soaked 1/16". There is a section in the manual regarding them. It is for planking but I also found them useful for framing too. or should that be bulkheading

 

PS: Leaving the cutouts in is a good idea but I would still consider reinforcing them. Having one snap when your half way through the deck planking would really not be a good thing. Another reason why I hacked mine out

Edited by JPett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, at the suggestion of JPett I went with his hunch and worked on the sides of the bulkheads for the last day.  Basically the idea is that the wood causes bending of the cutting laser and may not cut the wood perpendicular.  So I made myself a small sanding bench, pic below, and slowly sanded each side of the bulk heads and deck just enough to get rid of the burnt wood and gain some sense of perpindicular.

 

post-8513-0-39935400-1388877000.jpg

mocked up sanding table.  I used a small C clamp to put one of those large nail files perpendicular to the metal block.

 

post-8513-0-13560400-1388877095.jpg

Then I slowly rocked the bulk head back and forth on the metal block and against the nail file.  Making very sure not to put too much pressure at the top.  Don't want to snap those posts yet.  I'll have plenty of time later to mess those up.

 

post-8513-0-11455800-1388877261.jpg

As you can see after just a few swipes with the nail file, JPett was right.  Notice the uneven burn marks.  I obvisouly have a lot of work ahead of me.  Yikes.  But remember, not enough to mess up the bulk head size and throw everything off.  Moderation.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All done with the sides of the bulkheads.  Got them pretty good.  Just enough to even things up better but not perfect because there will be more sanding and cutting to do to get the planking angles.

 

post-8513-0-08927000-1388877758.jpg

Looks like the water line marks are lining up pretty well.  You can see how the bulk head sanding went.

 

post-8513-0-55231400-1388877843.jpg

Ahh man, you can still see that bulk head C is still messed up.  More than any one bulk head in this entire kit.  I think this one bulk head has just about everything wrong.  Note the water line reference line, the deck line and the fact that it does not line up with the bearding line.  Any suggestions on the best fix for it?

 

post-8513-0-94501200-1388877938.jpg

Ahh, looks like bulk heads E, F, G and H are lining up well.  YESssssss

 

post-8513-0-99243000-1388878007.jpg

But it looks like I and J will need some shimming.  Guess I used all of my luck on the other four.  LOL  Note that these two bulk heads were not due to my sanding. you can still make out the faint laser burnt marks.  Will have to shim and then sand to the correct angle.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D

 

It looks good. Any problems I see can be easily fixed with some shims or sand paper

 

As for "C"; I would just make the deck work and then shim and sand the rest to get her in line using the battens. You can use the battens to confirm the deck too.

 

To be sure there are no problems with the keel slots I would suggest you flip some of the bulkheads as a test/double check before proceeding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I feel stupid.  Went to work on bulk head C last night and was taking another look at why it just wasn't sitting right. Why on earth was it sitting higher than any other bulk head.  Sure, it was easy to blame the manufacturer, isn't that always the easy way out.  Upon further / closer inspection, I figured it out.  I didn't have the bulk head slid all of the way into the center keel slot.  The problem was that it didn't fit all of the way to begin with; so after a little sanding of the center keel slot I was able to get it to fit in.  YEA!  Now bulk heads A - H all sit well.  I will have to still do some deck sanding of A & B so they line up with the center keel but I can live with that (easy fix).  Even the tops of A-C line up well for the forecastle deck.  Who would have thought?  See in the pic how things finally worked out.

 

post-8513-0-52136800-1389134456_thumb.jpg

 

Now I have a new problem with the lining up of the quarter deck top deck lines.  See, I'm taking my time and looking and measuring twice before moving on.

 

post-8513-0-71266600-1389134532_thumb.jpg

See how this straight line sits fine on the back three bulk heads but the not the front two.  If I shim up the top of the bulk heads to make things line up I feel it would raise or should I say lower the side piece extensions.  But the water line reference lines line up fine.

 

I'll have to go back and look at these better again.  Perhaps I'll get lucky like I did with "C".

 

Nope, I looked and they sit correct.  Perhaps I could sand the back three down just a little and build the front two up just a little and meet the difference in the middle.  Suggestions?

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D

 

From you picture it looks like all you need to do is lower "K" and maybe "L" or raise "J". Look at the deck height at center of the bulkhead where it meets the keel deck height. "K" even looks high on the rabbet.

 

As I said before "get the decks right". They are the hardest to sand or change so avoid work there if possible. Easier to shim or sand the bulkheads on the hull side.  You can use the basswood left over from the keel as a template for the sweep of the decks too 

 

Adjusting/sanding the slots for the bulkheads to change their height on the keel is easily undone: so go there first. Always try to make adjustments over a few bulkheads if possible too, not one drastic adjustment to one, unless of course it is obviously off.

 

Fear not as MS will replace anything free of charge.

 

PS: There does seem to be a small issue with this kit but as far as I can tell this "is model shipbuilding". Everything is an adjustment to get the wood to fit the plans. It is not like plastic and this adventure is only a precursor to what follows. For anyone who really wants to learn how to build wooden ships, I feel this kit is hard to beat. You are doing a great job so far and have shown you have the right attitude. Take your time and check before committing to glue. It is definably a hobby for those who like to solve problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scott, I'll answer your private message here, in case anyone else can benefit from it. Yes, the tops of bulkheads I, J, K, and L do not quite match up on my kit, although they are very close. I see that you had some trouble early on with fitting the bulkheads all the way into their slots, so I would double check that. I'm not doing the top rails yet, but when I do, I'm going to shim and sand the tops of the bulkheads to match the plans as best I can. I think in that case, it will be more important to get clean, fair lines than it is to match the exact scale on the plans, and besides, they're only off by about a millimeter on my kit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, so my solution for the back top desk was this.  I sanded down bulk heads K and M just a little and it brought the deck to a little more level.  After looking at the bulk heads with a flat edge and thinking that I didn't want to mess with all of the bulkheads, that was my solution.  Less is better.  Perhaps not perfect at this time but I can address that later.  I've sanded all of the bulk head main decks though to appropriate depths.  I'm satisfied with them.  Now to work on the beveling of the bulk heads for planking.  Then fairing.  Or should I fair first and then bevel?  Opinions?

 

Thanks Augie, will do.  Hoping people will learn from my errors.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D  

 

I would recommend running the side of a soft pencil along the edge/corner of the bulkhead that is not shaped/sanded to further highlight it, This way you will have something to use as a guide to prevent you from changing the shape of the bulkhead by over sanding . With that said you should still mark all the bulkheads as instructed even if you don't shape/sand them so you have another reference when you fair the hull.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick question for the Rattlesnake construction crews regarding the Transform.  While my bulkheads are busy drying I started some of the simple work and looked at the transform and looked at people's build logs.  Although the instructions say to slightly bend / mold the transform it would appear that not everyone did.  It would even appear that the drawings differ on this fact as well if you really look at them.  So my question is this:

 

Is it really necessary to bend the transform or is keeping it straight acceptable?  That is, does keeping it straight impeed the tiller assembly at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D

 

The bend is almost unperceivable and comes from the slight angle carved into the transom filler. Because the tiller goes through a cut out ahead of the curve I do not see it causing a problem from my house.

 

Just a warning. I made a small change to my transom and am still paying for it. Make sure you understand all the consequences of any changes to your model. As a newbie I have learned our mistakes alone usually leave us with enough extra work and avoid adding to that list.

Edited by JPett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scott,

 

I've been working on this kit for about 4 years now. No, it isn't that beautiful, I am just that slow. I couple of lessons learned I can share.

 

1. I did bend the transom, but replaced the britannia metal decorcations with modeling clay. Basically, I used the metal decoration to create a mold out of Sculpey, baked the mold to get it really hard and then filled it in with more Sculpey, baked that and separated the two pieces. This allowed me to get a much better fit on the transom. See http://www.shipmodelsocietyofnewjersey.org/resources/Downloads_page/sculpeydoc.pdf. There's another article that was in Ships in Scale and posted on this site, but I can't find it right now. In fact I used Sculpey all over it for added pizzaz. The plans show this kind of detail, but it's missing from the instructions. Chuck Pessaro totally inspired me.

 

2. I would save the little inset pieces for the bulkheads and make knees out of them to hold up deck beams that are part of the bulkhead piece. I didn't do this and probably had to glue each beam a half a dozen times. I think in the end, I just gave up and created new deck beams. If I had to do it over, I'd support them better from the get go.

 

Good luck. You'll probably be done before I am. : )

 

Rich

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rhephner

 

Thanks for the advise.  :)  I did keep the bulhead cut out pieces for whatever possible future use I could find for them.  I've been told to support those top bulk head pieces by others as well.  Seems to be a common theme.  LOL  On the list of things to do, but haven't gotten there yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahoy Scott :D

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/45-rattlesnake-by-jpett-model-shipways-ms2028-scale-164th/?p=439

 

I would not recommend doing this. I am confident that I will finish this but bending the fashion piece has led to a lot of work. When my skills are up to it I will attempt it and post.

Edited by JPett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, here the most recent update.  The pics follow with explanation.

 

post-8513-0-53500300-1396093891.jpg

Here I am busy getting all of the bulkheads to line up with the beard line.  Pretty straight foward really.  Sanding and shimming is easy enough when taking your time. 

 

post-8513-0-35244900-1396093966.jpg

Here is the standard shimming of bulkheads.  Looks like I and J need a little work to get a smooth flow.  When it comes to this step, take your time and make multple measures with your eyes.... looking for a smooth flow.  No dips or bulges should be present.  Again, make multiple measures.  Measure between 2 bulk heads and then 3 and try to do 4 to see how things flow.  I bought a sheet of 1/16 basswood and am cutting out slivers for the shims.  Also, when it comes to beveling, I learned that you have to bevel the whole bulkhead from the back of the bulkhead to the front. Don't bevel from the middle of the bulkhead forward. The angle of the bevel just changes as you move forward or back.

 

post-8513-0-87544600-1396094006.jpg

EFGH all look okay.  No dips or bulges.

 

post-8513-0-94654200-1396094056.jpg

Did some work with the bulkhead deck sanding to get things lined up right with the center keel.  I suggest you do this before gluing the bulk heads in.  Just keep the bulkheads in the slots that you are not sanding.  I removed one at a time, did some sanding, put it back, look to see if it lined up.  If not, I repeated the process until it did line up.  Also, notice the steep angle of bulkhead A compared to B.

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, you guys tell me, with the battons in place, what do you think?

 

post-8513-0-95421700-1396094157.jpg

A pic from the top with the battons pinned on.  I did not pin the very back and front because I could not find rubber bands to pull the battons in.  I did tape the very ends together though to show at least that I hope I got the angles of the beveling right.  I did bend them with my hands and eyed the angles.

 

post-8513-0-93566100-1396094207.jpg

Here I'm using a metal ruler to show that the bulkheads are perpendicular to the center keel.

 

post-8513-0-17301500-1396094263.jpg

Close up of the battons on the port side.  You can see where I did some shimming and beveling.

 

Input please, did I get things right?  Do I need to take additional pics for better judgment?

Edited by scott larkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...