ModelBoatMaker Posted June 13, 2013 Share #211 Posted June 13, 2013 My humble opinion is that there is probably little to be gained by filing down the rivets, you can get a pretty close fit as is which is really not noticeable - hadn't even really thought about it until you asked the question! Interesting idea, would love to see how you tackle it if you decide to go down that path. I think I'd be more worried about getting scratches on the copper plates. The colour I used is Tamiya XF-52 Flat Earth - unfortunately my local store doesn't have much selection. I tried the Admiralty walnut but thought it too bright, and I'm not very good (I found) at mixing colours. Ok thank you very much Jason. I have just been looking at my components for the rudder and they look slightly different to yours. Did you widen the recesses in the rudder and if so why ? Pete Quote Previous build - HM Schooner PickleCurrent build - HMS Snake 1:64Future Build - Sergal Cutty Sark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #212 Posted June 13, 2013 Did you widen the recesses in the rudder and if so why ? Pete Hi Pete - I didn't widen them, all I did was to square the corners up to allow the gudgeon and pintles to seat properly. If I remember correctly, these also needed some filing to get them nicely squared up. Nothing tricky, just the usual patience needed and was happy with the way things turned out. Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #213 Posted June 13, 2013 Ok thank you, sorry to use your images, but I was wondering whether you have made the pintles shorter(image1) because when I put mine together you can see the pintle protrudes through the gudgeon ( unlike yours in image2) Pete - Yes, I did trim the pintle, otherwise it wasn't possible to mount the rudder with the gudgeons already attached to the sternpost. Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelBoatMaker Posted June 13, 2013 Share #214 Posted June 13, 2013 Pete - Yes, I did trim the pintle, otherwise it wasn't possible to mount the rudder with the gudgeons already attached to the sternpost. Thanks very much for all your help Jason, I should be able to complete the rudder after the rest of the coppering is complete! Pete Quote Previous build - HM Schooner PickleCurrent build - HMS Snake 1:64Future Build - Sergal Cutty Sark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted June 13, 2013 Share #215 Posted June 13, 2013 Jason, Just poppin' in. A bit busy at the work front. Very nice job on the chainplates, and the rudder. Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share #216 Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Carl, good to hear from you Building 18 carronades is quite frankly, tedious! Haven't had much in the way of build time recently but I'm getting close - they are simply very fiddly and with so many to do its a task I need to break up. Worked on getting some more of the structural bow details on, namely the timberheads and the fore pinrail. I had already cut the holes for the pins of the pinrsil before I had installed the fore platform as it would be next to impossible to do afterwards. Photos are pretty self explanatory. I decided to try and shape the timberheads a bit to give them less of a 'cut out of plywood' look which was pretty straightforward. First picture shows the before and after comparison. One thing I'm not sure of and as always would appreciate comments and suggestions. The second photo shows the side profile once complete, and I have timberhead sitting right over the bridleport which doesn't seem quite right. These were placed into the holes pre-cut in the capping rail, but books I references seem to indicate that these would have been adjacent to the port (see second picture). The difference is quite a bit and the plans are less than clear on this. Not sure I can change anything, but I wonder if the capping rails should have met at the front of the bow, this would be closer but still not completely right. It would also prevent the bowsprit from fitting unless the ends were trimmed. None of this is mentioned in the instructions of course, and of course it wasn't apparent until I was cleaning my paintbrush! Are the knightheads too far apart, should they be closer to the bowsprit? Edited June 16, 2013 by Beef Wellington Blueskippy, hamilton and drtrap 3 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjors Posted June 16, 2013 Share #217 Posted June 16, 2013 Hi Jason, I see that you also make your samson posts ( or timber heads ) But one question…..those at the front, are they not to big? Because mine are all the same size if you look at the picture at the San Ildefonso ( if you can find them ) ( picture 548 at page 37 ) For the rest it looks great! Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share #218 Posted June 16, 2013 But one question…..those at the front, are they not to big? Hi Sjors, the ones at the front are (I believe) called knightheads and should be taller. Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 17, 2013 Share #219 Posted June 17, 2013 Beautiful work, Jason! Re, the knightheads - I'm not too sure, but the knighthead's I've seen are normally either side of the bowsprit - it might have been different with the Snake, and it's also possible that I get this idea from exceptional (and potentially incorrect) models! Others can confirm. Also - the timberheads would actually be the ends of the frames, so they wouldn't run in line of the gunports, as far as I know....I wonder if you could cut it off, sand it down, refinish and place the timberhead forward of the gunport...again others can confirm She looks fantastic in any case! hamilton Quote current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780) previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit); HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS Greyhound; Fair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851); Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch) under the bench: Admiralty Echo cross-section; MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share #220 Posted June 17, 2013 Hamilton, you're too kind...and I'm still pondering. After some reading I found the following (not for the Snake of course), clearly shows the timberhead above a port, so that could be OK. However, this also shows the knightheads much closer to the bowsprit (as Hamilton describes) and sort of what I would have expected for this to be a pretty fundamental to any ship design. I'll wait for others thoughts and opinions before I resort to anything drastic with the knightheads. Ferit and hamilton 2 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.Coleman Posted June 17, 2013 Share #221 Posted June 17, 2013 Great build nice and sharp lines in your work. I'll be waiting for more pics! Quote Regards, Scott Current build: 1:75 Friesland, Mamoli Completed builds: 1:64 Rattlesnake, Mamoli - 1:64 HMS Bounty, Mamoli - 1:54 Adventure, Amati - 1:80 King of the Mississippi, AL 1:64 Blue Shadow, Mamoli - 1:64 Leida Dutch pleasure boat, Corel - 1:60 HMS President Mantra, Sergal Awaiting construction: 1:89 Hermione La Fayette AL - 1:48 Perserverance, Modelers shipyard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjors Posted June 17, 2013 Share #222 Posted June 17, 2013 Thanks Jason, Learn something again It's always nice to see the difference between the vessels. Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted June 17, 2013 Share #223 Posted June 17, 2013 Have you tried fitting your bowsprit yet? (Even just the unfinished stump) it may give you a better idea of how things may look, and whether or not you want to make changes. Andy hamilton and drtrap 2 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted June 17, 2013 Share #224 Posted June 17, 2013 Hi Jason, I have looked at the framing on Pegasus, the ports sit between frames but there are filler frames below and above the ports some of which are extended to a timberhead, one being directly above the Bridle port, but there are also a couple further aft. The knightheads were intended to give lateral support to the bowsprit, and certainly on Pegasus sit close either side; the arrangement you show wouldn't fulfil this purpose so I think there may be some doubt as to the accuracy of their position. B.E. Beef Wellington and hamilton 2 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share #225 Posted June 18, 2013 Thanks all for the comments... This is why I seem to make such slow progress, decided that I couldn't live with the knightheads as they were so had a go at fixing. Photos pretty self explanatory, removed the paint, loosened the PVA glue by saturating with rubbing alchohol and filled the holes. I then shortened the knightheads by the thickness of the rail and pinned securely in place. Much happier with the result and the deviation from the plans, I'll leave everything else as is. Ferit, Dubz, de_kryger and 3 others 6 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjors Posted June 18, 2013 Share #226 Posted June 18, 2013 That looks great Jason, A real improvement ! Nice fix And a amazing paint job…. You can not even see where the first knightheads where... Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sailor Posted June 18, 2013 Share #227 Posted June 18, 2013 Hi Jason, the position of the knightheads is more realistc now. I like the modifications you did. Quote Cheers, Richard. ------------------------------Current build: Mercury, Russian brig, America's Cup Yacht Endeavour (1934), AmatiCompleted build: HM Schooner Pickle, JoTiKaNext: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferit Posted June 18, 2013 Share #228 Posted June 18, 2013 The all knightheads are following the inclination of the hull as continuation of frames... I can see the planking of the forecaste deck and through the openning of the bowsprit, the planking of the main deck... Even their lines fit each other. Superb symmetry in all... You are like a 5-axis CNC machine... Quote Best Regards… Ferit KUTLU Under construction: Frigate Berlin (Brandenburg Navy) Hope: Frigate Wappen Von Hamburg (Brandenburg Navy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 18, 2013 Share #229 Posted June 18, 2013 Hi Jason The knighthead fix is very well done! And it's a good thing that BE clarified the timberhead question (now I can add that to my modelling lore, as well and free myself from many mistakes!). The model now looks even more beautiful than before! hamilton Quote current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780) previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit); HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS Greyhound; Fair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851); Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch) under the bench: Admiralty Echo cross-section; MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anja Posted June 26, 2013 Share #230 Posted June 26, 2013 Hello Jason, Have a great day. Anja Quote Those we loved but lost are no longer where they were, but are always where we are. In the gallery: Albatros 1840 - Constructo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferit Posted June 26, 2013 Share #231 Posted June 26, 2013 Happy Birthday Jason... Quote Best Regards… Ferit KUTLU Under construction: Frigate Berlin (Brandenburg Navy) Hope: Frigate Wappen Von Hamburg (Brandenburg Navy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st george Posted June 26, 2013 Share #232 Posted June 26, 2013 HAPPY BIRTHDAY JASON. Quote David Current Build : HMAV Bounty - Amati Next Build : 18th Century Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZyXuz Posted June 26, 2013 Share #233 Posted June 26, 2013 Happy Birthday, Jason! and nice fix on your knight head!! great job! Quote Visit My Blog! http://malaysiamodelship.blogspot.com/ Previous Build: HMS Race Horse (Sergal) Current Build: HMS Unicorn (Corel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjors Posted June 26, 2013 Share #234 Posted June 26, 2013 From me also Happy Birthday Jason. Enjoy your day and get a lot of goodies for your build Quote Currend builds: USS Constitution by Sjors - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Victory by Sjors - Jotika - Scale 1:72 On hold: VOC Reconnaisance yacht Duyfken by Sjors - Kolderstok - Scale 1:50 Finished builds: HMS Snake (1797) by Sjors - Caldercraft - Scale 1:64 Nuestra Señora del Pilar by Sjors & Anja - OcCre - Scale 1:64 H.M. Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by Sjors - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 HMS Agamemnon by Sjors - Caldercraft / Jotika - 1:64 San Ildefonso - OcCre Le Mirage - Corel Smit Rotterdam (sea tug) - Billing Boats - 1:75 Sovereign of the seas - De Agostini Spirit of Mississippi - OcCre Santissima Trinidad - OcCre Corsair - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmo Posted June 26, 2013 Share #235 Posted June 26, 2013 Happy birthday Jason Quote Current build Enterprise class 28-gun frigate 1774 - scratchbuild 1:36 RC Completed builds Cruizer class brig - scratchbuild 1:36 RC HM Bomb Vessel Granado - Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted June 26, 2013 Share #236 Posted June 26, 2013 Happy Birthday Andy Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted June 26, 2013 Share #237 Posted June 26, 2013 Hi mate, Happy Birthday! Now that life has quietened down a bit again, I can start back on the Snake build and keep an eye on yours. More Carronades to assemble and rig...... Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share #238 Posted June 26, 2013 Richard, Hamilton - thanks for the kind words Ferit - You're far too kind! There are a number of items that of course I see and wished I could have gone back to redo, but I'm happy with the learning experience. I love a quote that I saw on someone else's log "Thats what first builds are all about, second builds" Anja, David, ZyXuz, Timmo, Sjors, Andy, Jim - thanks for the birthday wishes! When I saw all the comments I was thinking that somehow there must have been a lot of progress on my ship while I was sleeping...but sadly no I've not been able to get much time in the shipyard recently, but I can feel her calling out to me...too many outside projects and nice weather. Jim - looking forward to see you moving forward again! Sjors 1 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtrap Posted June 26, 2013 Share #239 Posted June 26, 2013 Wishing you the best Jason for your birthday! Stergios Beef Wellington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted June 26, 2013 Share #240 Posted June 26, 2013 Hi Jason, Happy Birthday mate, have a good one. mobbsie Beef Wellington 1 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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