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Licorne (1755) by mtaylor - (POF) - 3/16 - French Frigate (Hahn) - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

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This ship's boat business is giving me serious pause for reflection.  I at first thought: "Well, I've got a couple of the ME low-budget ship's boat kits...."   But they are too generic and not right.  If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it right.

 

This first pic shows the kit boat with a new keel I thought I'd use...

 

post-76-0-34512900-1394464176_thumb.jpg

 

So it's in the scrap box...

 

I dug through Frolich's book, re-examined the plans, and also looked at the Bonhomme Richard plans.  Seems the French pretty much standardized what boats and sized them accordingly.  I dug some more on the best way to do this... Frolich, Bello, various builds here on MSW, etc.  Ah-ha!!! Lifts!

 

After scaling the plans appropriately for all three boats, I generated a set of lifts for the longboat.  The barge and cutter will follow if this works.  :)   The other alternative is to generate a series of bulkheads/frames like Chuck designed for his boats but I'm trying the lifts first.  The one thing that I'll change between the plans and the build is the framing wood dimension.  The plans show the frames to be 1/32" X 1/32" (~0.5 mm).. I've tried but I can't cut wood that small, so I'll be using 1/16" X 1/16"(~1 mm) for the frames.  Here's where I am now... cutting out the lifts on wood of the appropriate thickness.  There's also a small pile of cherry cut to the frame size and a wide strip for the keel, etc.

 

post-76-0-20539900-1394464178_thumb.jpg

 

Now to go see where this path leads.... 

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Hi Mark -

 

Best of success with the small boat.  Since you are using a lift method for their hulls, here is a tip from Dynamite Payson that I have used with good success:  You probably know it already, but if not, it's one to add to your toolbox.

 

Once you have carved the outer shape of the boat, get a strong light source and hold the boat up to it as you carve the inner shape.  When it starts to get to the right thickness you will see light coming through.  The strength of the light will show you where you have different thicknesses of wood and where you have to thin it some more.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Dan

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Thanks for the encouragement, guys.

 

Thanks for the tip, Dan.  Actually, I'm using the lifts to make a mold. I'll add the frames, keel, and planking to it and then remove it from the mold.

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Hi Mark, using Chuck's bulkhead frame system I  also found reducing the thickness of boxwood frames  @1:64 scale to less than 1mm made them too fragile. I am making the ones for my Pinnace from 1.5mm thick sheet but will them sand down to 1mm. Once insitu and held by the planking I may be able to reduce the width a little more, but getting down to around 0.5mm is a tall order.

 

I am very interested to see how you get on with your boats.

 

Speaking of French boats, it seems eminently sensible to build them to nest, unlike the British Navy where there were far more sizes and shapes most of which were unsuitable for nesting. On the other hand it must have been a hell of an exercise to get at the Longboat having to remove the cutter and Barge first.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

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We all knew you would find a way to keep the yard operational whilst awaiting your lumber.

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Mark,

 

what are you thinking ?

 

The Licorne is to big I'm gonna change to a small one ??????

Practicing makes art ?????

Make a lot of pictures please....not for me but for Anja .

She can use it when she goes (whenever ) build the Hannah  :D

 

animaatjes-sjors-94584.gif

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Thanks for the comments.  Hmm... now I am pressured by all the confidence expressed. :)

 

Hi Mark, using Chuck's bulkhead frame system I  also found reducing the thickness of boxwood frames  @1:64 scale to less than 1mm made them too fragile. I am making the ones for my Pinnace from 1.5mm thick sheet but will them sand down to 1mm. Once insitu and held by the planking I may be able to reduce the width a little more, but getting down to around 0.5mm is a tall order.

 

I am very interested to see how you get on with your boats.

 

Speaking of French boats, it seems eminently sensible to build them to nest, unlike the British Navy where there were far more sizes and shapes most of which were unsuitable for nesting. On the other hand it must have been a hell of an exercise to get at the Longboat having to remove the cutter and Barge first.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

 

B.E.

Frolich actually cuts the frames from a slab of wood. post-76-0-81996400-1394563779.gif  I just feel I know my limits at this point so I'll be doing the best I can at this point.  I may try Chuck's method if this fails.

 

 

Mark,

 

what are you thinking ?

 

The Licorne is to big I'm gonna change to a small one ??????

Practicing makes art ?????

Make a lot of pictures please....not for me but for Anja .

She can use it when she goes (whenever ) build the Hannah  :D

 

animaatjes-sjors-94584.gif

 

Sjors,

I'm building the small boats that go onto Licorne's deck.  I'm still waiting on the wood for the framing.  I'll be posting pictures even if this is a failure, although I feel pretty good about how it's going.

 

Hi Mark

 

Having recently acquired Frolich's book myself,I followed his leed by using a small solid block in the construction of Caroline's launch.It sits forward of the transom in the base of the hull.This helped a great deal to overcome the double curvature of the frames just forward of the rudder and is covered up when the interior is fitted out.

Regarding joint lines,Dr Mike discarded black paper in his DVD,stating that all black paper was of too good a quality for glue penetration,he used the cheapest quality white paper available and dyed it with black ink.Messing about,yes,but it does make a lot of sense.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

Thanks Nigel.  Frolich, Bello and some of the others that I reference do beautiful work and I'm studying how they did it.  I like the idea of the solid piece shaped and I can see having two as he shows.. one aft and one forward at the bow. 

 

I have the mold lifts cut out and glued together so today will be spent shaping it.   For the mold, I'm using basswood since the experts said to use a "soft piece of wood".   After shaping, I'll coat it with a couple coats of diluted white glue, some wipe-on poly and then furniture polish.  But gotta' get it shaped first. post-76-0-27861600-1394564168.gif  

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I'm gonna watch this with a great deal of interest, never seen it done before.

 

Good luck Mark although you wont need it, you've seem to have it pretty well covered and you have a lot of expert help ready in the wings.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

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I'm gonna watch this with a great deal of interest, never seen it done before.

 

mobbsie

 

That makes two of us, Mobbsie.   I've only seen it in books.  It should be fun and interesting now that I've sorted out what's to be done. 

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The mold is almost done.   I cut out the lifts and glued them together then sanded and shaped and sanded some more.  I'm in the process of cutting in the slots for the stem, keel, and stempost.

 

The first figure shows how I jigged up a sled on the saw and cut the slot using a 1/16" dado washer.  MM doesn't do dado blades, you add an appropriate washer next to blade and since the washer is cut on an angle, the blade is angled and cuts a slot.    The rest of the pictures show the mold with the slots cut and being cleaned up.  There's still more work on the mold before I start laying the frames.

 

It's a fun but nerve-wracking process (to me at least) as I'm in unknown territory here. 

 

post-76-0-73484400-1394758318_thumb.jpg

post-76-0-52546100-1394758321_thumb.jpg

post-76-0-55846200-1394758324_thumb.jpg

 

 

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Looks good Mark; some great progress on this mini-project- but it is too small to throw the popcorn at; especially from the back rows! :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

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When you start putting frames/keel etc into that, how do you stop it sticking to the mold while gluing the joints?

I thinking treating the mold with oil might do it? or is that what the furniture polish will do? I only ask because my construction technique involves glue getting all over the place.....

 

Cheers

Rob

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Take a piece of wax and melt it over the form and rub it in.  This is the usual practice.  The glue will stick to the wax and make it easier to remove.

David B

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Hi Mark,

 

The first figure shows how I jigged up a sled on the saw and cut the slot using a 1/16" dado washer.

 

 

I don't have dado washers - I just make an extra cut or two by moving the fence until I get the required width of cut.

 

:cheers:  Danny

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Thanks for the "likes" and gentle commentary everyone.

 

that is so cool Mark!  never done this before......I'll be watching ;)

 

I haven't done it before either, Denis.   :)

 

When you start putting frames/keel etc into that, how do you stop it sticking to the mold while gluing the joints?

I thinking treating the mold with oil might do it? or is that what the furniture polish will do? I only ask because my construction technique involves glue getting all over the place.....

 

Cheers

Rob

 

Rob,

I hit it with 2 coats of wipe on poly. Heavy coats at that.  Then I put on 2 coats of furniture polish.  On my test piece, nothing stuck to it.

 

Hi Mark,

 

 

I don't have dado washers - I just make an extra cut or two by moving the fence until I get the required width of cut.

 

:cheers:  Danny

 

It's a pity there's no dado blades (I double checked the Thurston catalog), or the washers for the Byrnes saw.  You do a fantastic job of it, Danny.   

 

Well, after almost a week of sorting out this mold and testing poly and wax for glue rejection, and I won't even get into water supply issues and spring yard work,  the mold is ready.

 

It's been treated as I told Rob (up above) and glued to the base.  I have some, but not enough, cherry soaking to make the frames.  I'm headed off across the room to cut some from strips.... hopefully, tomorrow I can start actually building the longboat.

 

post-76-0-86148100-1395284702_thumb.jpg

 

post-76-0-25282900-1395284660_thumb.jpg

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Nice work.  When using my Preac I would gang different blades together to get the correct width.

David B

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Looks like a fun project Mark.

Dripped wax, furniture polish, bees wax, they should all work as a release for the glue. 

That is a pretty small dado, how flat is it using the washer method? I would imagine its reasonably flat? I used a wobble dado set on a 10" table saw, once, didnt care for the noise or the slight curve on the bottom. 

Sam

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Thanks for the "likes" and the comments.

 

Sam,

Neither Is a big issue.  At 1/16", the dado looks pretty flat.  At 3/16", just a swipe of file takes care of it.  If you'll go back to this post:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/5339-licorne-by-mtaylor-pof-316-french-frigate-hahn-version-20/?p=165891  all the notches in the keel and keelson were cut with the dado washer. 

 

I'm going to test David's method and stack some blades when I get a chance.  I'm curious now if that will work or fling things across the room. :)

 

 

I've been bit busy on the side with HMS Visa.  Ordered pedestals, belaying pins, and some other necessities.  Also order a copy of Le Venus from ANCRE for the rigging plans. 

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Quick update:  Most of the frames have been cut and shaped.  Once the keel is in place, the half frames at the bow will be shaped and installed.  I'm working on the keel, transom, and stem now.

 

post-76-0-81140100-1395627210_thumb.jpg

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