mtaylor Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share #1621 Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the likes and the comments. Hello Mark, Your Licorne is looking wonderful. You can say what ever you want. The British might have the most strongest and successful sailing vessels, but the French ships have the most beautiful lines, isn't it? Daniel Thanks Daniel. I daresay you are right about the beauty of the French ships... and not just the lines. I'm leaning towards a French ship for the next build although I'm still thinking about the Roebuck (British). Edited March 9, 2016 by mtaylor Piet, Canute, GLakie and 5 others 8 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 9, 2016 Share #1622 Posted March 9, 2016 Well, Mark, you could always have your cake and eat it for your next model. A number of British ships were built to French lines. Examples are the Echo class of sixth rates, as well as the purpose-built fireships of the Tisiphone and Thais classes. In the case of the Echo class, even the decoration was in the French style! Jack12477, GLakie, Martin W and 8 others 11 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted March 9, 2016 Share #1623 Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) The British built a copy in 1808 of the French La Belle Poule, captured in 1778, as HMS Pyramus. Likewise they built a copy of L'Magicienne in 1807 as HMS Hyperion. Both were 18-pounder 32-gun frigates. There was a fun contemporary newspaper account of the Hyperion having put into Cadiz in 1814 all shot up with 100 casualties, after a running battle off the Azores at night, in a storm, with an American corvette which suddenly vanished. Her officers had allegedly reported that she was the USS Wasp. The latter was in the general area at the time, and she did eventually disappear without a trace. Hyperion's logbook does mention an evening chase, then a night-time storm, then having her stern windows smashed in by a following sea. Who knows? Another version makes it HMS Horatio off Charleston. This was one of many such tall tales that found their way into the papers. Edited March 9, 2016 by uss frolick GLakie, Piet, Elijah and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted March 10, 2016 Share #1624 Posted March 10, 2016 Hi Mark. Well, you know me, I certainly agree with the others about having, and eating, your cake. But Roebuck is an inspired choice for an alternative; it juxtaposes well with the Continental Confederacy. (Tongue in cheek) Heck, you could pretty much cap off any chats with Chuck by saying "yeah, well, ok, but my ship captured your ship. arr, arr, arr." Ciao. John Canute, CaptainSteve, Elijah and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg the peg leg sailor Posted March 11, 2016 Share #1625 Posted March 11, 2016 G'day Mark As everyone else is saying, your rudder is "top notch". Any captain would be proud to have that steering their ship. keepupthegreatjob mate Greg Quote "Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! " Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share #1626 Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the likes and comments and following along. You guys are going to make this decision for the next ship hard, aren't you? And I thought it would just be a simple decision.. Roebuck or something French like L'Orient. I figure why not go for tough ones.... John, the Roebuck also juxtaposes with quite a few American ships according to the history, as I recall. A bit of an update... the rudder is ready for hanging. The macro shows the problems but in real life it looks pretty good to my eye. I actually had another one made but it hit the floor without my knowing it. The pup (hah!!!! at 3 years old, not a pup but she thinks she is) picked it up, and gave it back with unfortunately some deep teeth marks. I had to laugh as I call her "my helping bud". Anyway, I've got blue taped into position while I sort out the irons attached to the hull. As always, critiques, comments, or general mayhem is welcome. Edited March 13, 2016 by mtaylor dgbot, rafine, robin b and 43 others 46 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega1234 Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1627 Posted March 13, 2016 Hi Mark No critiques or mayhem, from me. Just compliments on a job nicely done! Cheers Patrick Elijah, mtaylor, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote MY SCRATCH BUILT MODELS ARE: Splendid Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28576-splendid-by-omega1234-scale-1500-mega-yacht/ Majestic Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28483-mega-yacht-majestic-by-omega1234-miniature/ Sapphire Mega yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21088-sapphire-by-omega1234-1388-scale-mega-yacht-66m-8-inch-hull-length/?tab=comments#comment-639898 Genesis - Supersports Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/18168-genesis-by-omega1234-1300-49m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long-finished/?tab=comments#comment-559026http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14141-shadow-by-omega1234-scale-1300-luxury-60m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long/ SHADOW Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11384-majellan-by-omega1234-luxury-37-metre-motor-yacht-miniature-7-inches-approx/ Majellan Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9261Rainbow-j-class-racing-yacht/?p=273543 Rainbow J Class Racing Yacht Mystic Classic Motor Cruiser Symphony Ingomar Schooner: Scratch build Dorade Schooner: <p> Lennox Restoration Warship http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9577-pandora-cutaway-dockyard-style-miniature/?hl=pandora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share #1628 Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) I should point out that there's several differences between the French rudder and the British/American besides the previously mentioned shape at least at the point of time of the Licorne and Belle Poule. The French didn't use a spectacle plate as such. It was two eyebolts either by themselves or as part of the uppermost rudder iron. Since the uppermost rudder iron on Licorne will be too close or even covered by the rudder coat, I put them down lower "C". On the British/American ships, the rudder was retained by lines to the spectacle plate. On the French, there is a strop hole "A" that has a line from a ringbolt through the hole, and then to another ringbolt. Also, there's two lifting rings "B" to aid in resetting a rudder that went adrift. Edited March 13, 2016 by mtaylor canoe21, Jeronimo, Omega1234 and 34 others 37 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg the peg leg sailor Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1629 Posted March 13, 2016 Ditto from me as well. I assume all Ozzies think the same! Right Patrick? Haveagreatone Mark Greg Quote "Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! " Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Simmons Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1630 Posted March 13, 2016 Looking forward to see how a real ship is built. If at all possible post some pics of frame tricks....Onward and upward JesseLee, Omega1234, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote Current build: A Battleship Past builds: The Unicorn - The Lindworm - Malahini - Shinobi Maru - The MaryJane - The Weeligstraal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1631 Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Marvelous work, Mark ... I presume your building bud showed you you did a good job, and he wanted it to be perfect ... as it is now!!! I like those tidbits of information on the differences in the rudders ... As the American's got aid from the French - including ships - I would have expected the ships build would use the French method to 'secure' a rudder ... ah well .. in the end we all stick to our roots I presume ... Cheers Edited March 13, 2016 by cog CaptainSteve, Canute, GLakie and 4 others 7 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega1234 Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1632 Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Ditto from me as well. I assume all Ozzies think the same! Right Patrick? Haveagreatone Mark Greg Too bloody right!!! Hehe Edited March 13, 2016 by Omega1234 Jack12477, Piet, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote MY SCRATCH BUILT MODELS ARE: Splendid Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28576-splendid-by-omega1234-scale-1500-mega-yacht/ Majestic Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28483-mega-yacht-majestic-by-omega1234-miniature/ Sapphire Mega yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21088-sapphire-by-omega1234-1388-scale-mega-yacht-66m-8-inch-hull-length/?tab=comments#comment-639898 Genesis - Supersports Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/18168-genesis-by-omega1234-1300-49m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long-finished/?tab=comments#comment-559026http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14141-shadow-by-omega1234-scale-1300-luxury-60m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long/ SHADOW Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11384-majellan-by-omega1234-luxury-37-metre-motor-yacht-miniature-7-inches-approx/ Majellan Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9261Rainbow-j-class-racing-yacht/?p=273543 Rainbow J Class Racing Yacht Mystic Classic Motor Cruiser Symphony Ingomar Schooner: Scratch build Dorade Schooner: <p> Lennox Restoration Warship http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9577-pandora-cutaway-dockyard-style-miniature/?hl=pandora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnobiumPunctatum Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1633 Posted March 13, 2016 Mark. I think the L'Orient is a nice but really huge model also in a smaller scale. Don't blow the model if shes to big , as Nelson did in Aboukir. I like the Roebuk. Until I got the drawings from Alex Anson I thought a longer time of building her in the future. Piet, mtaylor, GLakie and 4 others 7 Quote Regards Christian Current build: HM Cutter Alert, 1777; HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - 1/36 On the drawing board: English Ship Sloops Fly, 1776, Comet, 1783 and Aetna, 1776; Naval Cutter Alert, 1777 Paused: HMS Triton, 1771 - 1/48 "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg the peg leg sailor Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1634 Posted March 13, 2016 G'day Mark I'm not putting my penny worth in, this time! I know whichever you choose would be amazing, your current model is a "claton" french ship anyway, before it was captured by the British. If I'm not mistaken. Havagooday mate Greg Quote "Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! " Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allen Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1635 Posted March 13, 2016 as good as it gets-pristine Elijah, Jack12477, Piet and 4 others 7 Quote John Allen Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli On deck USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build Finished Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine Model Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share #1636 Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Looking forward to see how a real ship is built. If at all possible post some pics of frame tricks....Onward and upward Well, over here in the Scratch area, there's lots of frame raising to see. Marvelous work, Mark ... I presume your building bud showed you you did a good job, and he wanted it to be perfect ... as it is now!!! I like those tidbits of information on the differences in the rudders ... As the American's got aid from the French - including ships - I would have expected the ships build would use the French method to 'secure' a rudder ... ah well .. in the end we all stick to our roots I presume ... Cheers I do see the French influence though in the American ships. It appears often in the lines more than the operational details, though. Mark. I think the L'Orient is a nice but really huge model also in a smaller scale. Don't blow the model if shes to big , as Nelson did in Aboukir. I like the Roebuk. Until I got the drawings from Alex Anson I thought a longer time of building her in the future. Size may end up being a factor but I'm looking for the "attachment" and the challenge. So we will see... I've got Hermione plans on their way, so that's possible. Druxey and Frolich had good ideas. G'day Mark I'm not putting my penny worth in, this time! I know whichever you choose would be amazing, your current model is a "claton" french ship anyway, before it was captured by the British. If I'm not mistaken. Havagooday mate Greg Indeed. The lines and drawings were made just after capture by the Brits before they did any modifications. For example, the plans show the fireplaces and the oven. The Brits would have probably pulled out the oven and fireplaces and put in one of their stoves... I'm just not sure where they would have put it as things were pretty tight under the forecastle. Edited March 13, 2016 by mtaylor cog, GLakie, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1637 Posted March 13, 2016 Very nice, Mark. Just catching up with your log. I didn't know about 'rudder retrievers'. Must be a new breed? Canute, ggrieco, paulsutcliffe and 5 others 8 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1638 Posted March 13, 2016 A real nice looking rudder Mark! At least your "Helper" brought it back. I'm afraid my cat would find it and knock it around for a while, probably never to be seen again. mtaylor, Piet, Omega1234 and 6 others 9 Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1639 Posted March 13, 2016 Your rudder looks great Mark! I just learned something about rudders today! CaptainSteve, Omega1234, Piet and 3 others 6 Quote -Elijah Current build(s): Continental Gunboat Philadelphia by Model Shipways https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15753-continental-gunboat-philadelphia-by-elijah-model-shipways-124-scale/ Completed build(s): Model Shipways Phantom http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?showtopic=12376 Member of: The Nautical Research Guild N.R.M.S.S. (Nautical Research and Model Ship Society) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenadM Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1640 Posted March 13, 2016 Masterpiece in masterpiece. I like it ! GLakie, Piet, CaptainSteve and 5 others 8 Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafine Posted March 13, 2016 Share #1641 Posted March 13, 2016 A very good looking rudder Mark. Bob mtaylor, GLakie, CaptainSteve and 4 others 7 Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete48 Posted March 14, 2016 Share #1642 Posted March 14, 2016 Beautiful work on the rudder Mark, Looks fantastic Best Regards, Pete Elijah, Omega1234, Piet and 4 others 7 Quote "may your sails be full of wind and the sun on your back" Current Builds : Future Builds : N.G Herreshoff 12 1/2 Scratch Build 3/4" = 1' - 0" Scale Completed Builds : Volvo 65 Farr Yacht Design Herreshoff Alerion Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 Volvo Open 70 Member : The Herreshoff Registry Montgomery Sailboat Owners Group Peter Kunst Sailboat Models http://www.herreshoffregistry.org/ http://www.msog.org/ http://www.facebook.com/Peter-Kunst-Sailboat-Models-1524464774524480/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burroak Posted March 14, 2016 Share #1643 Posted March 14, 2016 Great job Mark! That rudder is a piece of art! Greg H. Canute, Omega1234, Piet and 3 others 6 Quote GREG H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted March 15, 2016 Share #1644 Posted March 15, 2016 sweet looking rudder Mark GLakie, Piet, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSteve Posted March 15, 2016 Share #1645 Posted March 15, 2016 Seeing as how nobody else has mentioned it, I thought I should say what a great job you've done on that rudder, Mark. Omega1234, Elijah, WackoWolf and 7 others 10 Quote CaptainSteve Current Build: HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft) My BathTub: Queen Anne Barge (Syren Ship Models) Log: Queen Anne Barge (an build log) Bounty Launch (Model Shipways) Log: Bounty Launch by CaptainSteve Apostol Felipe (OcCre) HMS Victory (Constructo) Check It Out: The Kit-Basher's Guide to The Galaxy Website: The Life & Boats of CaptainSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted March 15, 2016 Share #1646 Posted March 15, 2016 You've gone the extra mile on the rudder Mark, looks really good mate, love the detail. Shame about the pooch exercising his canines, they seem to have the knack of finding bits we lose and reshaping them, gotta love em though aint ya. Be Good mobbsie JesseLee, cog, Piet and 7 others 10 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piet Posted March 16, 2016 Share #1647 Posted March 16, 2016 Well done on the rudder Mark and great research. Cheers, JesseLee, Canute, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Quote Piet, The Flying Dutchman. "Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends." (old Chinese proverb) Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942 VOC Ship Surabaya Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000 Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi." Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp, Buginese fishing Prauw. Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser. Completed Builds: Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner - Friendship Sloop Gwenfra Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted March 19, 2016 Share #1648 Posted March 19, 2016 I'll add one more on the rudder, pal. I love it. Well done. John CaptainSteve, JesseLee, Elijah and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtdoramike Posted March 22, 2016 Share #1649 Posted March 22, 2016 Absolutely beautiful rudder and straps. I'm tempted to say they turned out so good that it was worth all the trouble you went through, but although beautiful, that was a ton of extra work hahahahahahaha. mike GLakie, Canute, mtaylor and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms10 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #1650 Posted March 23, 2016 It the rudder of all rudders. Nice job. Toms Elijah, Omega1234, WackoWolf and 6 others 9 Quote Attitude is the difference between ordeal and adventure. Finished: Charles W. Morgan, scratch 1:96 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30666-charles-w-morgan-1841-scratch-196-pob-by-toms10 Finished: HMS Leopard, scratch 1:85 https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2403-hms-leopard-scale-185 Finished: Constellation AL Kit, scale - 1:85 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/1383-constellation-al-185-by-tom-szabo/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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