Licorne (1755) by mtaylor - (POF) - 3/16 - French Frigate (Hahn) - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

[mobbsie]

Carvings are coming along lovely Mark.

 

3D, what the hell next mate, cant wait to see what's coming up.

 

My very best regards to Janet and her up and coming surgeries, I wish her a speedy recovery and you the strength to look after her.

 

God Bless

 

mobbsie

[Walter Biles]

Mark, I'll have you both on my prayer list.  The ship is looking great!
 

[Landlubber Mike]

Drops are looking really nice Mark.  Thanks for the tip on the scroll sanders - what a great idea!

 

Best wishes to your wife as well

[Jim Lad]

Very nicely done, Mark!

 

John

[Jparsley]

Nicely formed mark I do wish the best for your wife and yourself May God watch over both of you

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Mark

She's looking great. All the best for admiral Janet with her surgery. You and Janet will be in our prayers.

Havagooday mate

Greg

[JesseLee]

You are both in my prayers also mark.

 

Jesse

[JohnE]

Janet is in my prayers; you are too. There are candles burning to St. Theophilus for both of you.

 

Wood looks good! Discovered a fiddly-bit from working with the carving artist for Cornelie. Make the wood just a skoosh thicker and then do the carving indents. When you are done with the carvings, shave the body to its perfect lines. The result is a skoosh more scale looking carving with respect to depth. Yeah, I know, magnifying glasses and the dental tip to sharpen up the edges, but what the hey.

 

Just a thought. Ciao. John

[Elijah]

I echo what the others have said. Goog luck to Janet with the surgery. Your ship is looking great!

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes, comments and good wishes.  I've passed those along my lady.

 

I'm now working on the roofs.   They have the traditional "top hat" look with a decorative railing around them.    So.. I did some drawings in Corel and sorting out the look I want.  Then I grabbed some pear (not Swiss) stock and cut it to size and put in the Death Star.  I was surprised as I forgot to change the settings but that beast almost cut them out completely.  A few more watts or a bit slower on the cutting speed... It might have done it.

 

I'm now starting to shape these pieces as shown in the photo.  Once I'm happy with the shape, I'll do the decorative railing around the top in Euro Boxwood.  This railing will be really a first leap into the carving arena as the rail has a lute type of shape for the uprights.  I'm figuring I'll have to make each bit separately due to the curves and the shape of each.  If you look back a few posts of mine to the plan, you'll see what I mean.. but while being a challenge to move my skills up a notch or two, they should be fun.  I'm already having fun shaping them once I figured out how to the drops, this should be easier.

 

 

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Mark

Looking great mate. Can't wait for the carvings.

 

I assume that you are doing the carvings above the window from the below photo.

Havagooday mate and when is Janet having her surgery.

Havagooday

Greg

[mtaylor]

Greg,

 

You got it mate.  It's actually a railing attached to a solid roof and not a free-standing railing.  Although, I admit I'm guessing as the reference materials are a bit vague on this and even contradictory.  

[BANYAN]

What would the purpose of those railing be for Mark?  I don't see any ready access other then the windows, to gain entry for use as a recreation area - not saying your interpretation is incorrect, just seems strange?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Mark

I just enlarged the photo of the drawing and I discovered that it appears there is no "hull" drawing between "the Rails".

 

The RED line is what should be shown IF it is a RAIL. To me it appears a SOLID roof with carvings.

Havagooday

Greg

Edited June 14, 2016 by Greg the peg leg sailor

[cog]

Mark,

 

I think Greg is right, it seems more logical too to have a closed, tapered roofing with some (more) carving, instead of a flat roof, with a rail. In heavy seas the rail could be ripped off, giving the capt'n a rather unwelcome shower.

[mobbsie]

Hi Mark,

 

I think I have to agree with Pat, Greg and Carl, it does seem pointless to have open railings with no access or function.

 

it's a pity there is no Fore / Aft view, that would have been a help.

 

Whatever you decide mate I know you'll give 100%, good luck with your decision.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[Sailor1234567890]

There's no doubt that's a roof with carvings on it. Often times that roof would have been covered in lead sheeting as well. Not always and I don't know for sure about this particular vessel but I can't think of any vessel that had a balcony with railing there. There's no access to it and as mentioned before, it's not very conducive to shedding water to have a flat surface there.

[druxey]

I don't know about French practise, but the British had an open-topped cistern there. The 'rail' ( solid) formed the side walls of the cistern, which had a pipe down into the quarter gallery for 'running' water. The cistern was lined with lead sheet.

[Sailor1234567890]

Each ship would likely be a little different, even amongst ships of a class. I tend to think this one has a roof though based on the drawings. I haven't seen a cistern there but I have seen a bathtub below in the quarter gallery lined with lead.

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and comments.

 

 

What would the purpose of those railing be for Mark?  I don't see any ready access other then the windows, to gain entry for use as a recreation area - not saying your interpretation is incorrect, just seems strange?

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Pure decoration, Pat.  Although on at least one French ship, this area inside translated as "the garden" and actually has usage for what appeared to be some sort of man-overboard equipment.  I'll have to find that reference again.

 

 

G'day Mark
I just enlarged the photo of the drawing and I discovered that it appears there is no "hull" drawing between "the Rails".

Mark.jpg
The RED line is what should be shown IF it is a RAIL. To me it appears a SOLID roof with carvings.
Havagooday
Greg

 

I noted that also as the NMM plans don't show that line either.  But on the NMM it's not very clear as are most of the "carvings" are just scribbles that need interpreting. 

 

 

I don't know about French practise, but the British had an open-topped cistern there. The 'rail' ( solid) formed the side walls of the cistern, which had a pipe down into the quarter gallery for 'running' water. The cistern was lined with lead sheet.

 

I wasn't aware of the cistern, Druxey.  I'll file that away for future reference.

 

 

 

I'm changing the "design" as I go on this.  There were some aspects of it I wasn't happy with after seeing it in wood.   Nothing major, just some tweaking to get the model in sync with the perspectives of the drawing.

Edited June 14, 2016 by mtaylor

[BANYAN]

Hi Mark, please note I was not questioning the decoration of the railings, only the purpose of such an open area.  The french loved their decoration (even more than the English I think?).  Druxey's comment sure adds weight for a use of that open space, especially if the Captain's head was in one of the quarter galleries.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Piet]

Very nice work Mark.  As I mentioned some time ago, I love the French flair for the artistic look and you are surely following in that direction.

 

Cheers,

[mtaylor]

Hi Mark, please note I was not questioning the decoration of the railings, only the purpose of such an open area.  The french loved their decoration (even more than the English I think?).  Druxey's comment sure adds weight for a use of that open space, especially if the Captain's head was in one of the quarter galleries.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

No problem, Pat.   I've gathered my thoughts together and took another look at my references.

 

Somewhere around 1765, all the frigates ended up with this look for the quarter galleries.  Prior to that, their galleries looked something like this:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4023-lamarante-by-giampieroricci-1749-french-corvette-scale-130/?p=408269(see the second photo down).  While that is more of a quarterbadge being flat against the hull, the galleries were of similar design but rounded outward for the facilities.

 

Both the English and French did seem to engage in forms of subterfuge to fool an enemy ship.  For example, HMS Roebuck, a 44 two gundeck frigate has a second set of dummy stern windows and (if I recall correctly, a double set of windows in the quarter galleries)such that from a distance she would look like a 74.  When the quarter galleries for the frigates changed, they all look similar.  There's some differences other than size between a 8-pdr frigate and a 12-pdr frigate...  but the appearance from a distance is the same.   The stern windows on Licorne start at the quarter deck beams and come down. They sit high which makes the ship appear larger than she is.

 

In Licorne's case, you'll see when I do the interior, the door to the galleries is only about 4-1/2 feet high.  The roof of the gallery would have to be hollow to give the officer some room to stand up. The gallery itself is barely wide enough for an officer to sit.  There was also a ruling that galleries should not be visible from astern but Licorne violates this rule.  Belle Poule. Hermione, and Le Venus had the headroom but also had the decorative rail.  I haven't studied all the ship's plans in depth on this but they appear to be like Druxey mentioned and what John showed.  Maybe not a cistern but the area inside the rail appears to be open and some items kept there.

 

The reasoning just seems to boil down to appearance. But I've run into a couple of things like this that make me say "Huh?" and so I follow the drawings, do a bit of research to see if this matches and sadly, I don't always rationalize it by connecting the dots like I just did.

 

One other tidbit I found interesting is that due to the hull shape differences between French and English frigates, the French ships were crowded.  The space between decks wasn't as great as the English ships as they moved the lower deck up for carrying capacity in the hold.  What this caused was that the sailors basically slept where ever they could find space as hammocks wouldn't have worked.  They would sleep on the lower deck forward of officer's country, on the hawse cable, in the hold on the barrels even between the guns on the gundeck.  Literally where ever they could find the space.  

 

Footnote... basic differences between an 8-pdr frigate and 12-pdr... the quarterdeck extends in front of the main mast, the 8-pdr, it stops behind it.  On the 12-pdr, the fireplace for cooking is on the centerline just aft of the main bitts.  On the 8-pdr, it's divided into two fireplaces and they are outboard on the deck between the first and second gunport.  Only 12-pdrs seem to have the bridle ports which are the only ports to have permanent lids.Hatchways/gratings are in different locations and numbers but that's due to what needed to be accessed below the deck.

 

Hmm... I've rambled on enough for now.  I admit, it's been a steep learning curve.

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Mark

Damm it's hard for you to know what is correct or not.

Many years ago we had a Prime Minister named Malcolm Frazer, his famous quote is "life wasn't ment to be easy".

I bet you know what he means now.

Havagooday mate

Greg

[NenadM]

Enormous researching work you put here Mark. Your log will be nice tutorial

[cabrapente]

Aquí hay un enlace:   http://www.olsonsaw.net/cat/scroll-saw-blades/scrollsanders/

 

Lo que me gusta es que son más pequeñas que incluso la lijadora de banda Proxxon. También despegar el material más lento por lo que uno tiene más control que con una lijadora de banda o disco. 

hola Taylor. trabajo fantástico.

Me gusta la invención.

Yo uso papel de lija en la sierra de banda. También funciona de maravilla

[WackoWolf]

English Please.

[mtaylor]

English Please.

 

From Google Translate:   Hi Taylor. fantastic job. I like the invention. I use sandpaper on the band saw. It also works wonders

[WackoWolf]

Thank you Mark. Never though of using sandpaper on a band saw, that a nice idea.

[mtaylor]

I never heard of that either until Cabrapente's post.  Then again, I don't have a bandsaw.