HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74 gun 3rd Rate Man of War, Arrogant Class

[AON]

Thank you Mark

Let's see how it works...

 

The last couple of days have not been good for me and frames.

I did help my son pass some trim through the jointer

and I have wasted time waiting for gas fitters to connect the radiant heater in my son's garage while he was at work... have to go back tomorrow because the three different lists they made were still short parts.

 

So I secured the jack to the halyard with the marline and sealed it with matte medium which applies white and dries clear.  This will also add additional stiffness to the halyard at the hoist of the jack and provide addition adhesion to hold them together.  I did not trim them too closely to the halyard purposefully as I want them to be noticed.

Possibly I will find time to make a tiny cleat tomorrow.

Thank you again Mark!

That was easier.

[cog]

One minor addition to Mark's picture method. You may replace the image with a new one if the image in the text box is selected. You can see that when there are small squares visible at the corners. just klick outside of the rectangle shape those tiny squares form, and you can add the next.

 

Your Jack is turning out real good, a proper flag

[AON]

Had to hunt for some dimensions for the cleat and found information in my copy of Historic Ship Models by Wolfham zu Modfeld (pgs 246-247).

Clamped a piece at thickness and started shaping it upside down as my first attempt right side up didn't survive.

 

My dimensions are A = 0.215" (0.64 mm) long ;  B =  0.1095" (2.78 mm) Tall (peg not included);  C= 0.065" (1.65 mm) Thick or wide.  The height will yet be reduced to be nearer what it should be.

 

Marked off (to be above the bowsprit cap and below the bottom of the hoist edge of the jack) and drilled out the jack staff to receive the peg and glued the two together assuring it was oriented correctly with the halyard holes above.

Letting it dry now before I attempt to cleanup the shape a bit with very fine sand paper while wearing my magnifying goggles.

Then I will assemble the flag and halyard to the staff and cleat.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by AON

[mtaylor]

I'm happy it worked out for you, Alan.  

[AON]

You took the mystery out of picture posting!

It is so much easier now.

[AON]

Union Jack and Halyard mounted to Jack Staff and secured with figure eights to cleat.  No hitches - it was getting crowded.

A touch of glue and she's done.

I will be bring this assembly to our local club meeting tomorrow.

[cog]

Can't recall the rubber band fixing method for that period ...

 

Very well done Alan. It does look the part.

[AON]

Actually they cut slices from the inner tubes they used to drag the sailors along behind the warship at very high and unsafe speeds when they were not battling at sea.

 

They had so much fun back then.  

[AON]

We had a good meeting yesterday.

It was brought to my attention that my halyard is short.

I will be "splicing" a length, folding it over and tucking it between the staff and halyard to complete it.

then it all goes into storage until I am ready to install to the model at which time I will add other missing bits and pieces to the bowsprit and jib boom.

 

I did purchase some tissue paper and will be printing off a flag to see how that looks ... will post.

[AON]

First - I "spliced" in a length to my halyard to make it look proper length-wise.  I had to fight the urge to make it neat as a working ship would not be too neat.

 

Second I printed the Union Flag onto tissue paper.

Actually, first I marked the bottom end of the face up paper in the printer tray with a small "X", then I printed the jpeg image.

Now I knew how to reload the paper.

I cut out a piece of white tissue paper (the kind used with gifts) and transparent taped it (top and bottom edges) to the print paper over the recently printed image.

I reloaded the sheet back in the printer tray, X side up and to the bottom, and hit PRINT.

Removed the tissue paper from the bond sheet and sprayed it with the matt fixative, back side first.

Hung it to dry.

I find the back side is not as crisp as the front side (not so noticeable in the photo as in real life)and the "matt" makes it a bit shiny... but the biggest loss is any resemblance to open weave cloth.

 

Although the hand painted version on silkspan requires more talent than I presently have, it does better resemble a cloth flag... IMHO.

To each their own.  I think I will stick to the silkspan painted method.

 

Thank you for the suggestion.  I learnt something new today!

[Dowmer]

Alan, was the fixative “matte”.  It came out pretty matte for me, but if you use too much it will get more glossy.  Also, I think the type of paper you use will change the overall effect a bit as well.  If the tissue is too fine a texture, then, yes.  It will look too smooth “like paper”.  Once it is hung and ruffled like a flag it will look better.

 

I'm glad you gave it a try and both can make good flags depending on the scale and how much you experiment.  I agree, the painting method definitely takes more patience and skill. Something I lack. 😢 😀

 

 

[druxey]

The other objection to the printed version would be the black lines between the colors.

[AON]

That was part of the image chosen.

I would need to search for a better one.

 

Clearly my fault.

[AON]

This weekend, after seeing a set of four sizes at 1:64 scale, I commissioned one of our local club members (Model Shipwrights of Niagara) to 3D print me a full set of 74 guns to be distributed as follows:

 

28 each x 32 Pdr ( 9.5 ft -  55 Cwt) - Lower Gun Deck

28 each x 18 Pdr (9 ft - 40 Cwt) - Upper Gun Deck

14 each x 9 Pdr (short at 7.5 ft - 24.5 Cwt) - Quarter Deck

4 each x 9 Pdr (long at 8.5 ft - 27.5 Cwt) - Forecastle

These will be created with his SLA UV acrylic liquid resin 3D printing machine made by Any Cubic Photon.  My machine cannot achieve this type of finish and detail at this small scale.  Below are photos of the proofs brought to our meeting on Sunday.  They are quite smooth, exactly to scale complete with every detail.  They can be sanded and accept flat black acrylic paint as he brought in his test pieces.

 

These will go into storage!

 

I also got my hands on a few copies of the Marine Models Magazine dated 1935 - 1939.  In some of the issues were very interesting articles about ships' armament written by Mr. A. P. Isard.   I will try to describe some of the points I found most interesting....

 

Ship's guns were originally brass but when replaced with iron they saved 160 tons of weight.

 

The original Royal Navy foundrymen of Kent and Sussex had a steep learning curve prior to achieve trustworthy castings (that didn't burst), smooth true bores (that didn't bend up or down).

 

Prior to the properties of coal being appreciated there was a fight between foundries and shipyards over the trees.

 

It took some time before they managed to get the gun powder mixture correct which saved some lives, but with the increase of quality of gun powder came frequent destruction of carriages.

 

The earliest cannons had no trunnions.  Once added they were cast inline with the bore but were later lowered  to provide better support and ensure a downward pressure on the quoin upon recoil.

 

Monsieur Gribeauval of France introduced many innovations that were over time adopted by the English Royal Navy: big wheels, iron axle trees, cartridges, elevating screws... all being, where possible,  interchangeable.

 

in 1778 the Carron Company introduced the carronade.  Merchantmen readily adopted it but the Royal Navy needed to warm up to it for some time (and in many cases they never did!).  It was lighter weight, required less powder and a smaller gun crew.  With its heavier ball it was more destructive at close quarters.  One of the Royal Navies biggest objections were poor fitting balls.  Eventually the bores were re-engineered to suit the sizes of the cannon balls.

 

The carriage wheels were called trucks with the aft being smaller then the foreward.  This compensated for the camber of the deck and dampened the recoil when the gun was fired.  If the gun was place directly aft the position of the wheels would be switched resulting in a raised aft end for the same purpose.  The crew was trained to use the roll for the ship to make the gun recoil uphill.  The trucks were made of hardwood so as not to damage the deck.  Heavier guns had the  trucks made in two laminated layers with the grain of one layer being across that of the other.

 

Breech ropes stretched and the two ring bolts acted as guides.

 

Carronade wheels tracked together (inline) whereas the long gun trucks did not.

 

The force of the recoil on the breeching of the long gun caused the weapon to jump; raising the fore trucks off the deck.  Available space on the deck did not allow the aft trucks to be moved back to counteract this.  Eventually they lowered the trunnions to effectively reduce this phenomenon.

 

The tackle secured to the bulwarks on each side had to be precisely adjusted to equal lengths so as to resist the carriage twisting and injuring the guns crew and gear.

 

The random recoil path of the gun due to many issues, not excluding the unevenness of the deck, maimed many a man.  Men were also injured by breechings, bolts and sundry fittings flying around the crew.  Guns were most dangerous when fired to windward.

 

When fired the trucks would immediately skid along the deck prior to rotating.

Wedges (roughed and tarred to increase the friction) were employed under the trucks when fired ahead or astern to counteract the unequal recoil.

 

And as a final entry a quote directly from the articles:

"Carriages were, therefore, a matter of experience and experiment, their sizes, strength and weights being nicely balanced with the weapons they were to carry and, like most things about a ship, a compromise."

Edited April 17, 2019 by AON

[cog]

1 hour ago, AON said:

The carriage wheels were called trucks with the forward being smaller then the aft.

I thught it was the other way around, do I look into the horses a.. when I look at the front

[AON]

Of course you are correct... about the trucks not the view of the horse.

In my haste to transpose the selected information without recognisable plagiarism I reversed the diameters of the trucks. 

An unforgivable error.

Correction made.

Possibly you might moonlight as my proofreader?

 

 

[cog]

1 hour ago, AON said:

Possibly you might moonlight as my proofreader?

Luckily enough I sold my last horse, hence there is no view. Concerning your last question, it is under consideration. Any incentives ...

[AON]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm 

[SJSoane]

Alan, fascinating!

 

Mark

[AON]

Making treenails (or trunnels).

 

I've searched online, through my small collection of books, and in this forum to find instructions.  Allow me to add my take on making treenails with a draw plate.  If I have done anything incorrectly I trust one of the more 'weathered' people on this forum might set me on course.

 

First I borrowed (long term no return basis) about a 10 inches (25 cm) in length of bamboo from the garden.  This stuff has spent the winter in the garage and is well dried out.

It needed to be split and as I am trying to be less of a hazard to myself I did not attempt to do this with a knife.  I used three slotted or flat blade screw drives as wedges and split it as I use to split large logs for the fireplace (but without the sledge hammer).

Once opened up I could easily identify the soft inner core and the hard outer shell.  I needed strips of the white stuff from between these zones.  I put the bamboo against a dog (stop) on the bench and pushed a chisel blade through to make smaller strips.  Eventually I had to forego the dog as the strips were getting quite thin.

 

The contract reads the frames were bolted to the deadwood with 1-1/2 inch (3.8 cm) diameter bolts.  This would be 0.023 inch (0.58 mm) at 1:64 scale.  I clamped my draw plate in my vise using soft jaw inserts to protect the draw plate.  Looking at the draw plate I can see numbers from 16 to 59 stamped next to the holes.  16 means 0.016 inch (0.4 mm) diameter and 59 means 0.059 inch (1.5 mm) diameter.  I need to draw down to the hole size identified as number 23.  The holes in the plate are sharp edged on one side and funnel (tapered inwards) shaped on the other side.  The tapered or funnel side faces you.  The strip of bamboo is fed into the sharp edged side.  Once poking through you grab it and pull!

 

I sanded a taper on one end and poked it through the smallest hole it would fit through.  I had read that you pull through the draw plate and can assist by pushing lightly from the other side.  Let me say this method works for the larger diameter but as it gets smaller you do not want to try to assist by pushing from the far side as the sliver of wood will buckle, or split and buckle.  Also, eventually my fingers could not adequately grip the small strip of wood and I needed to employ small hobby pliers to pull it through the draw plate.  This did crush and flatten the end of the wood which I nipped off with my chisel and re-sanded a taper to allow me to feed the piece into the plate.  I also found that if you push the lead end of the wood through the funnel side a very short distance, it helps to crush and shape the sliver of wood to assist feeding it into the other side.

Presently I have a number of slivers of bamboo at hole size number 33 or 0.033 inch (0.8 mm) diameter.  This is about 2-1/8 inch (54 mm) diameter at scale.  My first piece at 0.023 inch is extremely tiny and I am not certain how this will add any strength to my joint for sanding my frames.  I believe I will stick with the larger size as no one but Druxey will be taking a caliper to my build.   

Edited April 24, 2019 by AON
fixing typos and other dumb stuff

[Dowmer]

Alan,

Nice tutorial.  I commend you on use the garden bamboo.  However, if you wish a simpler route next time, I like to use bamboo skewers for the grocery store.  Only a couple dollars a bag and they will last you for a long time.  They usually have a variation of color.  I prefer the darker colored skewers for lighter woods and lighter for darker woods etc.  I’ll clamp an xacto blade in a vise, wear some gloves and pull the skewer through the blade to break them down into smaller diameters.  Due to the longwise grain they split very easy.  Then proceed as you have done.

 

Either way, the result is the same.  Well done 👍 

 

 

 

[AON]

Thank you Dowmer.

Possibly another trip to the dollar store is in order.  😉

[druxey]

Some bamboo skewers do not have straight grain or are too soft to draw through. I've ended up with more scrap than treenails. Actually, garden bamboo is generally superior. Try using parallel pliers to grip the material as you pull it through. There will be less crushing of the ends.

[AON]

Thank you Druxey.

I will see what I have and hope to give it a try today.

[cog]

This spring I cut most of the bamboo bushes in my garden, so I have a lot of stalks left. I can imagine, there are people at your side of the pond whom have done the same, and still have the stalks. Maybe scratch builders with a garden should plant bamboo a few years before they start their build  

[Louie da fly]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:56 AM, cog said:

Can't recall the rubber band fixing method for that period ...

 

 Oh,  I don't know. If it's good enough for the Byzantines . . . .

 

 

Steven

[AON]

Two steps forward.... three steps back.

It is the worst dance step ever but leads to one more lesson learnt that will likely never be forgotten.

 

The chocks on the forward cant frames should taper opposite to those on the aft cant frames.

It was clearly there in black and white.

 

One lesson learnt some time ago: the second time is always quicker!

[druxey]

Taper or angle?

[AON]

Potato?

 

... one persons taper may be another persons angle, but a taper is definitely at a specific angle.

(or is it a chamfer?)

 

either way I am buggered

[cog]

Tomato!