Echo Cross Section by Alan in memory of Eli (31.1.14-3.2.14)

[alangr4]

 

Well back in the workshop after completing a job of work writing a paper. My first "job" post retirement. Hmmmm!

 

Canberra is becoming chilly as winter starts to bite. The workshop sans heating doubly so.

 

I locked the keel on to the building board and I am pretty happy with that.

 

 

To warm up and get the eyes and the hands back in the groove. I decided to do a test run on the first of the frames.

 

Using some old scrap I cut out and rubber cemented the templates and warmed up the scroll saw.

 

A bit rusty, as Greg and David say,  there is a fine line between cutting too far out and to close to the line.

 

 

 

Time now to take a run cutting out the templates using the swiss pear.

 

cheers

 

 

Alan

[druxey]

Hint: If you are cutting gentle curves or straight lines with the scroll saw, I find a thicker rather than thinner blade (properly tensioned) gives better control. However, the tooth pattern must be such that at least three teeth should be within the thickness of material being cut.

[gjdale]

Hint: If you are cutting gentle curves or straight lines with the scroll saw, I find a thicker rather than thinner blade (properly tensioned) gives better control. However, the tooth pattern must be such that at least three teeth should be within the thickness of material being cut.

Druxey,

 

This may be like asking "how long is a piece of string?", but do you have any particular blade specs in mind here? What are your favourite "go to" blades?

[alangr4]

 

Thanks Druxey/Grant

 

I was running today with a No 5 blade in the Hegner range. Not the finest blade by any stitch.

 

In the pieces I was cutting there would have been probably 5 teeth may be 6 cutting the timber. It was pretty soft wood so it was a pleasure but disappointed at times at my lack of control particularly around the chock region. Lack of practice or cold hands or both.

 

Reinforced the importance of having a few practice goes before tackling the real deal.

 

The previous day I had been cutting mahogany again using the no 5. I felt I probably had a bit better control with this. Thicker/denser wood.

 

I could go out to a no 9 which would probably have 3 teeth covering the first futtock thickness. There are a couple of others which look more brutal!

 

Happy to experiment.

 

Thanks again for your interest.

 

Regards

 

 

Alan

[alangr4]

Well, put the final coat on a side table I had been building for my folks and have swung back to the framing.

 

After a couple of practice runs on some scrap and then once using Jeff's wood have learnt a number of things and left with a few questions.

 

First, switched blades on the scroll saw as suggested by Druxey. Moved to a no 9. Certainly better control and reinforced that I dismiss Druxey at my peril. Thanks Druxey!

 

Second, I underestimated the role and importance of the chock. Making sure that I follow exactly the plans in cutting out the chocks is critical. I spent far too much time, I think, sanding and fairing the chock to fit rather than using a chisel and getting that fit accurate to begin with.

 

Three, I am in a quandary about how much spare I should leave outside and inside the frames. I think on reflection in all three attempts I cut and sanded far too close to the line on the plan whereas I should have left a bit - maybe around 1/32 or 1/64 so that I have a bit spare when I come to fairing the completed set of frames.

-    I have found in the past that I am an inveterate fairer once the framing or planking is complete. This may be something I have to get out of my repertoire if this build and any further scratch build efforts are to be a success.

 

Four, rushing the framing is suicide. Yet it was taking me a good three hrs to get as far as I have - which is not far. Again to my mind spending far too much time sanding to try and get the frames, particularly the joints right.

 

Five, I was in two minds whether to cut from the whole plank that Jeff supplied or cut a smaller piece covering the quantity required for the first futtock and chock. Decided on the latter. My mistake was not leaving enough for an adequate hand hold particularly for the chock that you can grab onto and steer. Life becomes quite interesting when one is cutting a chock sans handhold on a scroll saw running at 1200rpm!

 

Anyhow, a couple of pics follow. Suffice to say I am going back for a second attempt once the temperatures have warmed up a mite.

 

 

 

Druxey: please note surgical knife in pic 1. Your pliers worked a treat.

 

cheers

 

 

Alan

 

 

[druxey]

Glad things are working out, Alan!

 

If you can limit your excess wood to 1/64"outside the line, you'll save a lot of elbow grease and dust when it comes to fairing. Of course, you will need to be particularly particular (is that redundant?) in assembling the frames and when erecting them, but your work looks good so far. And yes, this is not a five-minute job.

[Trussben]

Hi Alan,

 

Looks like your having fun!

 

1. I normally use a #3 or #5 Ultra reverse blade cutting stock less that 9 scale inches thick depending on material and how tight the curves are.

2. Chocks are a lot of fun, just keep practicing and you will find a way that works for you.

3. Druxey recommends 1/64, I actually left them a little fuller at 1/32 to give myself a little insurance.

4. The more frames you make, the faster it will become. By the time you get to the last frame and have mastered your own technique you will be

less than 1 hour!! Its a steep learning curve!

5. HAHA - yeh, its good to have a handhold while cutting and keeping the fingers away from the blade!

 

Just keep on going Alan - its not a mountain your climbing but sometimes it will feel like it

 

ben

[dgbot]

You are doing a fantastic job Alan.  The making of frames properly is a time consuming task.  a coupkle of years ago I saw a cross section of a Great Lakes Schooner at Manitowoc.  Needless to say it did very well.  I remember one of the modelers asking him about the framing he did.  And he said it was an average of one frame per day to get it right.  Just do the best that you can and and have fun and enjoyment in a job well done.

David B

[alangr4]

 

Many thanks to you all for your gentle feedback and encouragement.

 

I hope my post didn't leave you with the impression that I am losing enthusiasm. Absolutely the opposite . I am getting a great deal of enjoyment from this little exercise.

 

Just kick myself occasionally that I should have known better.

 

Ben: The Ultra reverse blade sounds like a nifty little blade. Does this fit all machines? Like your latest challenge, Indefatigable - as if you don't have enough challenges already. The Ultra reverse blade sounds like the ideal tool for 'Razeeing' a 64 down to a 44. 

 

Your analogy of this feeling like a mountain sometimes is quite apposite. The last time I took on a mountain (this size), some 35 yrs ago, they bought me down on the back of a yak and an oxygen bottle! I do enjoy my mountains!

 

David B: Any chance of seeing a pic of the Great Lakes Schooner? 

 

Thanks Druxey for your guidance and encouragement. Means a lot.

 

On to version 4 of the frame!

 

cheers

 

 

Alan

[dgbot]

You are in luck Alan they were on my laptop.  I wish I could remember the name.

David B

 

[alangr4]

 

David

 

A stunning example of the craft. Thanks for sharing it.

 

Wondering too how many frames might have made up a full schooner? 

 

Excuse what is probably a dumb question, but what is Manitowoc? I have seen it crop up a few times over the last few years. Thought initially it was a place but wondering now whether it is the name of a boat show or maybe a place and a boat show.

 

Thanks again.

 

Alan

[druxey]

Manitowoc? A place in Wisconsin on the west shore of Lake Michigan that has an annual boat show.

[alangr4]

 

Thanks Druxey

 

Should I put it on my bucket list?

 

Regards

 

 

Alan

[dgbot]

The museum at Manitowoc has been hosting a show and contest for over 35 years.  It has grown from a local show to include models from the entire midwest.  Over the years we have had models from Idaho to Arkansas.  I have had the pleasure at being at and helping out for quite a few of them.  This being the first year I could not attend.  Hopefully next year.  For many it is a focal point to get together and have a good time swap ideas and techniques and drool over well built models.  The museum's mission is the craft and the history of the Great Lakes.  It is the repository for all information relating to the Gato Class Submarine as well as Burger Boat.  http://www.wisconsinmaritime.org/index.php

David B

[druxey]

Also Manitowoc is an interesting little town. There is a house/museum with Chinese antique scrolls and paintings and a real 1920's soda fountain shop.

 

The other big model show is at New London, CT (near Mystic Seaport) at the end of April each year.

[Trussben]

Allan, these blades should fit all standard pinless machines.

The make I use are Flying Dutchman, but there are other makes out there.

Just google it!

 

Ben

[alangr4]

Thank you David B, Druxey and Ben for your information.

 

The itinerary for our first non-work related trip to the US and Canada continues to grow. My wife Annemaree is particularly taken by the sound of Mystic Harbour. She has taken over google to check out their quilting potential.

 

Annie was in Washington a few weeks back and bought back pics of the Smithsonian's boat collection. Another must see place to get to.

 

Ben, thanks for the tip on the blades. Will check the local hardware shops first to see if they stock them.

 

Google is currently locked up dealing with Mystic Harbour quilting tour questions!

 

Well done Druxey, Annie says hi and reports 19th century dress making classes figure in Mystic Harbour as well as Patchwork Murder Mysteries! What more could I ask for!

 

Back to the frames.

 

Regards

 

Alan

[druxey]

Oh, yes, and there's also a planetarium in Mystic Seaport....

[Ryland Craze]

Alan,

 

If you are near Washington DC, you should take the short trip over to Annapolis, Maryland.  On the grounds of the US Naval Academy, they have the United States Naval Academy Museum.  It has two floors loaded with ship models.  On the second floor is the Henry Huddleston Rogers Ship Model Collection.  Here are two links regarding the Museum.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/612-the-rodgers-collection-at-annapolis/

 

[alangr4]

Back on deck after a period of writing and taking care of a couple of other commitments.

 

As you may have gathered from my last framing post, I wasn't entirely happy with my opening framing performance. It was to my mind a bit hit and miss and I was still very much in the mind set of building a kit. 

 

I am finding this to be a completely different exercise. Fun but different.

 

Suffice to say, over the interlude I went back to school and re-read the relevant chapters of the books of David Antscherl, Ed Tosti and Bernard Frolich. Also invested in a couple of new tools:

 

- some perspex which I have cut up into rigid sanding blocks of different shapes;

 

- some ultra reverse blades from Flying Dutchman for the scroll saw (thanks Ben);

 

- a Veritas honing guide to help sharpen the chisels.

 

 

In the past I have not been a great one in maintaining my chisels. I am now!

 

I have a wonderful scroll saw but these reverse blades make cutting a joy and I am starting to get a tighter tolerance on my frame components. I am not yet close to the masters such as Antscherl, Tosti or Frolich but I am working on it.

 

I found with my sanding that I was using a soft mat underneath my sanding which was causing me to roll my corners, particularly on the chocks. The perspex ( which ideally should be plate glass) is giving me a bit more "squareness" (if such a word exists) in my sanding. Also trying to rely more on the chisel to give me my edge rather than a sander.

 

The following pic suggests that not much progress has been achieved since my last post, but I am more comfortable with fit, particularly around the chocks. Fortunately, there is plenty of spare timber. I figure if I can get my approach right here, it will stand me in good stead later on.

 

 

Still a little work to be done to assemble the frame but we are getting there.

 

Alan

[dgbot]

A real sharp chisel can alway make a difference.

David B

[Trussben]

Well Allan, it seems you have learnt some very important things, keeping chisels razor sharp is a big one for me!

Glad the ultra reverse blades are working well for you, just remember they don't last forever cutting hardwoods like Castello.

A big one for me on the chocks was leaving a tab on them so I could manipulate them against the disc sander and keep refining the fit until perfect, once you master this the chocks are really easy to do.

Keep going man!

 

Ben

[alangr4]

 

Thanks Ben, David & all the likes.

 

Yeap, courtesy of this site I am learning something new every day.

 

Ben: Chocks with a tab - clever.

 

Treenails today - what joy!!!

 

Alan

[alangr4]

 

Well that was more of a break from Echo than I had been expecting!

 

However back in the workshop and underway again.

 

My last pic shows an early version of the deadflat frame. When I went to fit it to the keel,  I had a nasty 1/16-1/32 gap which in real scale would have sunk Echo the first time she entered the water.

 

 

 

You can see the gap in the second pic, if you look real hard.

 

Suffice to say went back and had another go, and another.  Won't say how many but .......

 

Running with the attached version, which I am sort of comfortable with. May revisit later.

 

.

 

I should also add that the Admiral took pity on me and bought a Byrne's disc sander. Up to Jim's usual high standard and will be a great addition.

 

Impressed by the photos of the NRG conference and in particular the Echo cross section(s?). I hope the Echo community will turn out in force at the Mystic Harbour event next year?

 

Sorry for the break in transmission folks but normal service is resuming.

 

cheers

 

 

Alan

 

[WackoWolf]

Glad to hear your back in the shop again. Nice work on the repair, no one every says how many times it takes to make it right. Glad your back on the right track, we all learn from our mistakes or we just keep making them.

[gjdale]

Great to see you back in the shipyard Alan. And yep, like Wacko says, re-dos are just par for the course. The important thing is that YOU are satisfied with the results.

[druxey]

Welcome back, Alan! It must be good to see sawdust flying, I'm sure. Our success rate improves with experience, so don't be discouraged. Enjoy your new disc sander.

[dvm27]

There will be Echos at Mystic next year! As for that gap, you could have used small shims on either side to close the gaps so long as the frame ends up centered on the keel. But redoing it correctly is always the better option.

[alangr4]

 

Many thanks Joe, Grant, Druxey, Greg and the likes.

 

Thanks Greg for the shims tip and also for reminding me to keep it all centred.

 

Do I take it there will be two ship modelling conferences held in Mystic next year - one in April and one in Oct? 

 

Alan

[druxey]

The one in April is a one-day affair in New London, near to Mystic, run by the joint North-West Ship Model Societies. The NRG Conference is a three day(?) one in October.