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shihawk

HMS Victory by shihawk - Billing Boats - 1:75

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To be honest by the time i reached the last mast i was starting to enjoy it ?? My main problem was fixing the futtock shrouds ,keeping them tight and in line while avoiding unsightly knots , I tried several methods but didn,t find anything i was really happy with so just settled for a variety of methods, none worth mentioning  . I started of using a couple of different methods to measure the spacing of the ratlines but found they either took too long to set up or distorted the run of the shrouds so i ended up doing them by eye and with a bit of care it could be the best method . 

My next problem is deciding how much of the main yards i will fit . Because i am only going to the first stage of the masts i,m wondering if i should go for a short version of the main yard ,similiar to what i did with the bowsprit . I had thought i might be close to finishing by Christmas but there is still a lot to do in the bow area , plus anchors etc and still a lot of rigging ,plus a display case . maybe next christmas ???

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What an absolute beauty. I can't wait to see the finished product. The shrouds and lower mast are done a bit differently than they way I do mine. I find it easier to get the mast perpendicular if built all at once and then installed into the mast holes.

 

 

mike

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Mike , the fact that i am not going any higher with the masts has simplfied the build considerably ,although exactly how the finished product will look i,m still not sure .

Thanks Heinz . It,s comments like that which make it all worth while .If only i had your patience ?

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Mike ,your a man after my own heart ,( maybe thats an Irish saying ?). I keep a book beside the computer with a glossary of all the different parts of a ship so that when i,m posting i give the impression that i know what i,m taking about ??? . It tells me that the first layer of yards are the main yards and to answer your question ,i intend to try to fit them either completely or perhaps in a cut of version ,depending how it looks . My thoughts are that the complete version would probably be best and have spent a good part of to-day attempting to make one on the lathe which by all accounts is the easiest and quickest way to make them , It may be if you know how to use a lathe ??? My 3rd attempt is showing some promise and i must try to learn how to use these tools !!! Depending on how it goes i may have some pics later .

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With a name like 'Dowling' I know all about this Irish stuff!!!! As for using a lathe, I haven't done that since I was at school, a very, very long time ago!! It's no good you being flashy because you have one and I don't. I am jealous though !!

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post-7919-0-74071000-1449786146_thumb.jpg

 

First yard completed , no decorations hung on it yet 

 

post-7919-0-84970300-1449786264_thumb.jpg

 

post-7919-0-50837500-1449786310_thumb.jpg

 

I think there is something not quite right , but can,t figure out if it is the color of the yard or if the yard should even be fitted at all . As i suggested earlier maybe a short version of the yard would be more comparable with the rest of the build , or maybe once the blocks and tackle have been added it will look better, any views or opinions will be greatly appriciated . Confusious say , decide to-morrow ???????

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I think I would go with the "correct" length for the yard Boyd. Just in case you change your mind about going the rest of the way up with the rigging. In the end, it's your decision.  :)

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I agree completely. I think the length of the yard would look very strange if shortened. I think it will look fine once rigged but quite rightly GLakie has pointed out that you might want to keep going up. You have got to make good use of your lathe after all !!!! Still jealous !

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Thanks George and Mike for your reasoning , and dispite that at present i have no intention of going any higher as past experince has shown i am inclined to change my mind the odd time????  I think i will go ahead and rig one completely before any rash decisions .

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Thanks John for the kind  words . Yes i believe the full yard will look best , my problem now is figuring out which blocks etc will be necessary because of the restricted masts as i don,t want to many blocks hanging unused but don,t fancy fitting any once the yards are fitted . Might be easier removing than fitting ??. I also want to keep the rigging to a minimum so might follow the Billings drawings which seem very basic .I knew they would be usefull at some stage !!!!

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Wow.  Boyd you've done a fantastic job on a really difficult ship.  I haven't seen your log in over a year, maybe more.  I was searching for an answer to a Q I have on ratlines, and your log came up first.  I am almost to the top of the mizzen mast in tying on ratlines and I don't know how far up the shrouds to go.  Or should I say, where to stop the ratlines.  The plans look like they stop about the level of the bottom of the cheeks.  A lot of pictures I've seen seem to stop them where the futtock shrouds begin.  Once the futtock shrouds and their ratlines are on, its difficult to see through them to tell which are the ratlines from the lower shrouds.  My thinking though is that they would go almost right up to the mast so a sailor could climb onto the platform.  If they were much lower, it would be nigh on impossible -- unless they transferred to the futtock ratlines which I would think would be a bit hazardous.  But just being on one of those ships itself was a bit hazardous, so who knows to what extent they had to put themselves out there.  Or maybe they just went from the outside of the ratlines to the inside of the futtock ratlines and completed the journey to the platform half upside down.  Anyway, how far up the shrouds did you stop your ratlines.

 

I want to also say that I'm very intrigued by you plan to stop the build at the lower masts.  I've had that thought for almost a year in regard to my Bounty.  For lots of different reasons including the ability to put the model on a shelf.  Mainly though to avoid a lot of rigging which I'm not yet capable of doing well.  So I applaud your guts in doing this in the face of what must be a lot of scowls.  As for your yards.... I agree with what Mike, Neptune and Glackie have said; go with full length yards.  By now you may have already completed them, but I just thought I'd toss that in.

 

Keep up the great build.  It must be a great feeling to know you're nearing the end.

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Thanks for looking in Captain AI .Your query on how far the ratlines go is something i wondered about myself , In fact on my last build ,Cruiser ,  i thought like you that they needed to go all the way to the top.  It makes sense for all the reasons you mentioned but many of the pictures of models i have looked at don,t seem to have any ratlines above the start of the futtock shrouds , so i left them off this time . Is it possible that because the main shrouds are served at least part of the way behind the futtock shrouds that the sailors were expected to climb the ropes for the last few yards ????  A problem with tying ratlines the whole way to the top is that the shrouds get so close together it can become pointless . Maybe some one more else can tell us the correct way although as i now have the futtock shrouds fitted and the ratlines on them i will have to be content without them . I may get a few pics put on tonight of the main yard fitted and partly rigged ? As regards the stopping at the main yards , i think it will cause a few problems but like you rigging is not one of my strong points , in fact in frustration i have broken my rule and started the Santa Maria over Christimas  

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I personally think that a model can often look better with less detail.  Its like the old adage, addition by subtraction.  Sometimes all the stuff that goes on to make the model authentic gets in the way of even seeing other things.  I just think your Victory is fantastic as it is.  The point you make about the shrouds getting so narrow that ratlines are simply superfluous is spot on.  They can be tied on, but end up just being a little tangle of thread when the shrouds resume their position.  I'm going to go only as high as the ratline can be clearly distinguished as a step.  As for going as high as the catharpins, I might do that if I knew what a catharpin was.  LOL.  Gotta look that one up.

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Captain Al,

 

Catharpins are the lines which cross the ship from one side of the lower shrouds to the other, level with the lower end of the futtock shrouds running to the edge of the top. They were normally attached to a bar, the futtock stave, on each side. You can just see them in the top pic in Shihawke's last post, just below and behind the main yard.

 

I believe their purpose was to tighten in the upper part of the shrouds, so that the lower yards could be braced further.

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Thanks Stockholm.  I found a few definitions here and there but nothing as complete and useful as your's.  I recall the term futtock stave and it seems like they would be applicable to the catharpins.  What I can't visualize or see in Shihawks pix is whether they are on both the fore and aft side of the mast.

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On close inspection I see these catharpins clearly.  It looks to me though that they are all aft of the mast itself, which would mean that all the shrouds actually run aft of the mast and the channels/deadeyes down below would have to be aft of the mast.  I have not noticed that on my model Bounty and I am sure I've placed the channels right where the plans call for them.  Funny how little things like this can be overlooked.'

 

I also looked at McKay's Anatomy of Bounty and in the rigging chart the only mention of catharpins (he lists them as 'catherpin ends') is in relation to the foremast.  I'm thinking then that ships of the day may or may not have had these on all the masts.

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Hope you don't mind me barging in on this discussion. According to Darcy Lever's Young Sea Officers Sheet Anchor, the ratlines start at the futtock stave & go down. The futtock stave is only secured to the shrouds that will have cat-harpins. See the attached photos from the book. Of course this book was written later than this period but I could imagine the setups were the same.

post-11110-0-00832400-1451255646_thumb.jpg

post-11110-0-44890800-1451255646_thumb.jpg

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Hi Keith , I,m taking a leaf out of your book and having a short rest from the Vic . I knew when i bought the next kit it would be only a matter of time but hope to get back to the rigging soon . I have learned that size ain,t everything !!!  

 

Happy new year to you and yours 

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Love everything you've done on this ship Boyd. I have learned and copied much from your build and will continue to. I personally like the way you've gone with the masts and rigging and may yet go that way myself. Keep up the splendid work.

Best, Ian

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Thanks Ian ,I think the main thing i have learned from this build is not to be afraid to do your own thing and see how it turns out  ,although often when searching through other logs or books i have to remind myself i am building a model not a replica of the real ship and decisions then become easier. If your build continues to the same standard as your present planking i rekon you will certainly have a build to be proud off . I hope to be back at the Vic soon and be able to let you see now the shortened masts turn out before you make any drastic decisions. 

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