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Martin W

HMS Fly by Martin W - Victory Models - 1/64

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Sigh!  For the last twenty years or so I had a couple of well-dried boxwood timber treetrunks, about four inches diameter and over a yard long.  Given to me by a friend who knew I enjoyed woodworking.  I did use a tiny bit of one of them - a small woodturning project - but mostly they just cluttered up my workshop.

When I had my big clear-out in preparation for marriage no. 3 a couple of years ago, I bandsawed them to twelve-inch lengths and added them to the pile of logs that I consigned to the purchaser of my lovely Welsh cottage.

 

I've regretted that foolish act ever since ...

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There's a clear lesson, Brian:  NEVER give your wood away.  I gave a vise away once, and like you with your wood, have asked myself ever since, why?  I didn't even know that guy.

 

Peter -- The US doesn't have a great many delicious beers, but there are a few worth drinking.  Last summer in Maine I had several (and have been thinking of retiring there ever since).  The bottle you spotted with your aviator eyes is a lovely IPA from the great state of Oregon.  I can't say that it instills patience for details, but since my modelling space is within easy reach of the beer fridge, it certainly gets me into the room.

 

Thanks for checking in, and thanks to the likes!

 

Martin

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Hello Everybody -- I've been silent for over a month.  Work has subsumed me, for the most part, though I have managed some regular time everyday in the boatyard.  And it's been one little detail that has snagged me.   The Drift Rail concludes at the forward end of the Quarterdeck in a Scrolled Hance.  FFM gives a good technique for shaping the scroll, but at 1:64 that technique doesn't really work -- or even matter.  Still I wanted to have something of a scroll.  At last count, I went through 12 different tries, working with and exacto, with a micro gouge (1 mm, which isn't so micro at this scale), with lots of shameful language ("Really now," my delicate flower of a wife would say, "what's going on in there?), and finally with the Dremel and a small round bit.

 

Here are some of my efforts.

 

First, you can see that I cut the outer shape as drawn, then tried to clear out the inside.

 

58cc3f2867390_Hance1.JPG.f0b4b19792dff66bd308bd388ba1b6ec.JPG

 

This attempt crumbled so badly I couldn't even get a picture.  Next I glued the boxwood blanks (1/16" thickness) to some scrap, aiming to prevent the crumbling.  This is the first result there:

 

58cc3fdb34e0b_Hance2.JPG.dfc9affdeb14d81497540cc97375fb4d.JPG

 

The next evolutionary step was to take care of the inside curve first, and then worry about the outside, hoping that I could uphold some structural strength that way.

 

 

 

 

 

58cc403867130_Hance3.JPG.dd728381cd4540ae7e060429c3368320.JPG

 

A few more casualties as I toyed with grain direction, thinking (maybe a bit too much) that if the grain moved diagonally across the scroll rather than horizontally, there would be more strength.  Nice idea, but with no practical effect.

 

58cc410103c50_Hance5.JPG.730b4327f8a4c95bc41583577bb6a0e9.JPG

 

Finally I came up with some fairly decent curves -- I can't quite call them "scrolls" since the scroll is incomplete:  the reason is that the scraper could not make the curve, and for 2 reasons.  First, as it cut across the grain, the outer edge of the hance crumbled.  Second, the complementary tail section interfered with the cutter itself.  As a rough simulation, I drilled a shallow hole, just enough to create a shadow.

 

And here is the starboard Quarterdeck scroll in place:

 

 

58cc42020eb0f_Hance6.JPG.e150748da53594eac75e1cdde9fc7c78.JPG

Now, the kit plans don't show anything like this where the rail terminates at the aft edge of the fo'c'sle, though the NMM plans show something like a scroll.  It seems to my eye that the rail needs some sort of flourish as a terminus, and so I set in the same scrolls as on the Quarterdeck.  Things get a bit tight, though:

 

 

58cc42adb48c5_Hance8.JPG.2770414d42e405d4cc0ab14741f4857a.JPG

 

That one eye bolt is tight up against the scroll, but I still think a line can run through it somewhat freely.

 

And of course, when I invited Mrs W in to see what had induced such unseemly language, she squinted hard and said, "Do you honestly believe anyone will ever notice that?"  :P

 

 

Next up, revised Cat Heads.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

 

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Our respective Mrs W's seem to have the same outlook towards our modelling efforts, but that's not the point is it, although on a practical level Mrs Prairie W is correct in the sense that the Foc'sle scroll will be mostly hidden by the shrouds.

Nice detail tho' Martin😊

Good luck luck with the Catheads, an interesting little project in their own right.

 

B.E.

 

 

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Thanks, guys.  BE -- I know they'll be hidden, but I just couldn't come up with another way to bring the rail to its end.  Mrs Prairie W did once ask me if I would like a new kit for my birthday, and with my jaw hanging down I asked why she would since she usually made fun of my modelling efforts.  Her reply was that it kept me out of the way.  Hmmm.     ;)

 

Don -- That's a very nice compliment, though I'm not sure the phrase "skills at modelling" belongs next to my name.  Probably something more like bumbling and blind flailing!  Still, I do enjoy it.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

 

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I'm with the programme Martin, just because it's hidden is no reason not to do it. Mrs Shires W is generally supportive of my modelling activity, but having read the frank disclosure by Mrs Prairie W, I now begin to wonder why.:rolleyes:

She did once express an interest in making an Airfix Spitfire (had to be an Airfix) and indeed started it, when I asked which Mk she would like I was promptly told not to get nerdy! just get her a Spitfire.

Still on with the show - don't forget to get the Catheads the right way up, and you will need to temporarily fit the main head Rails to assist getting the position right.

Cheers,

B.E.

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My dear Martin and B.E.

Please be aware that you may leave yourselves open to an accusation of "murmuring" and you could be requested to bear the consequences according articles 20, 21 and 22 while Martin also most probably committed an offence against article 2 of the Royal Navy Articles of War. :Whew:

Martin, very nice detail and it will always be visible - at least to the thousands, or so, of followers here in MSW.

Cheers

Peter

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Cheers Guys, thanks for checking in.  And thanks to all who clicked on the Like Button!

 

Anton, thanks for the kind words.  The kit is lovely indeed, and one I'd even considering doing again, though mostly in hopes that my skills would magically improve!

 

BE -- I fear Peter may have a sound point.  Here's the event that convinces me of the justness of his legal argument:  Last week Mrs Prairie W "asked" me to go "look at" sofas.  I'm very fond of the current piece of furniture that has afforded me countless pleasant naps, but, unbeknownst to me, it has become old and tawdry looking.  At the store, when I tried to expedite the process by pointing to a fine example of a sofa, I was told that the fabric would never go with the walls.  Walls?!  I had no idea fabric and walls held any relation to one another.  But the Articles of Marriage, Sec. 3.B.iv.c states very clearly:  "The Husband shall affirm the judgment of the Guyd Wyfe at every turn, lest he seeks to find comfort in the kennel."

 

Mrs Prairie W has never visited MSW (so far as I'm aware  :o)

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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So here's a question:  BE, you say I need to affix the Main Head Rails in order to determine the position of the catheads.  I suppose that means I need first to make the Main Head Rails, right?  From FFM I get the sense the order was Catheads, then structures of the head, including the cathead support.  Looks like I'll be taking a trip to the Other Place to do some studying, eh?

 

Any suggestions on this matter would help.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

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By invoking 'the Other Place', I do sincerely hope you're not thinking of selling your soul to the Devil?

Mind you, he's probably already got mine.  I'm 80, but he promised me I WILL have time to finish my own HMS Fly before he collects.

On the other hand, we all know he's a liar ...

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No need to go to the other place Martin, the detail is here on page 3, post 72 of my log.

The Cathead should butt up against the Main rail of the head works and during the process of fixing the cathead it is worth checking they sit right.

On Pegasus the Main rail is a pre-shaped piece of walnut so it is an easy matter to blu-tack it temporarily in place before the cathead position is fixed.

Cheers,

 

B.E.

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Hello folks -- Too much time has gone by since I last posted an update.  I wish I could say that I've secretly made great strides during the silence, but, alas, I have not. 

 

I spent a fair amount of time trying to work out some sort of decoration for the end of the catheads.  After tracing the star pattern shown in FFM, I tried cutting it in with a small chisel, then with a micro burr on the dremel, and then with an exacto.   Here's the pattern traced onto the stock:

 

593db1d86c32c_Cathead1.JPG.4d04d4a7cbc99ad11521e7d6a2174139.JPG

 

 

 

In each case, the detail just proved to be too small for me to cut any detail.  The best I managed was this:

 

 

593db1a2aa3be_Cathead2.JPG.80c2726587cccb8ec5ab3b2db7290ccc.JPG

 

The possibility of getting eight points in, or even six proved to be beyond skills and visual acuity, so I took comfort in the fact that the NMM plans show that FLY is one of the Swans without decoration on the cathead, and moved on.

 

 

Next I debated whether to include the gangways, or to leave the waist guns exposed.  I had always pretty much assumed I would include gangways, but then began to think that it might be nice to see the guns clearly.  But then there's that nagging issue of the ladders to the fo'c'sle.  The kit plans show them bang up against the #2 gun, and there really isn't any other place to put them.  Nor is there a ladder way in the fo'c'sle deck.  The logic here was killing me, so I've decided to go with the gangways. 

 

That means I need to install the waist guns, which means I need to finish their rigging -- just the frapped side tackle, which does require the somewhat tedious process of frapping 16 tackles, seizing the eye bolts and the blocks.  I'm almost finished with that process (and when it's done, I plan to open a beer, sit back, and say to myself, "Whew, at bloody last!").  And then I'll epoxy the guns in place.  I tried BE's method of setting the guns in with pin through the deck, but just couldn't figure out where to place the hole for the pin, so I'm using epoxy.

 

Once the guns are in, I'll post pictures of the little darlings, and then start on the gangway, gangplanks, and q-deck ladders.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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Your thought processes re the gangplanks mirror mine Martin.

I couldn't get over the awkwardness of those Foc'sle ladders, and fitting the gangplanks also provided an opportunity to differentiate the model from the basic kit layout, something I  am prone to.

 

Re pinning the guns; even at this fairly short interval my memory starts to dim, but I believe I set the carriages in place on the deck, and micro drilled thro' the carriage  bed into the deck. I then c.a.'d the pin into the deck, trimmed so that it would just fit up to the level of the bed. With the gun completed I just coaxed the assembly over the pin, adding a spot of c.a. before I  pushed the carriage to the deck. - but epoxy sounds good too. :)

I await with interest your next update.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

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Hi guys -- thanks for checking in, and for the encouragement. 

 

BE -- I do recall that you drilled down through the carriage (it's been a while since I read that part of your log).  And I recall that when I set the guns in under the quarterdeck, I realized too late that I should have taken that step before putting the barrels on the carriages.  Hence the epoxy.

 

The bigger problem with the guns has been that I keep nudging the protruding barrels while I'm working on something else.  One of them has already worked loose, and I haven't figured out a way to secure it back.

 

The temperatures are rising steadily down here on the prairie, and summer will soon close in to keep us house-bound.  That's traditionally been the time I make my biggest advances on Fly

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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Yep the b***guns.   Sorry Martin  - I think a touch of epoxy is probably best bet ( which gun is it ?)

 

I tried all ways ( using standard kit and other guns)  .

So a few ideas - some  a bit weird but not TOTALLY daft !

 

 

You drill and fit initially with carriages alone  - you dont need to fix at this point  but you need to remember to identify which one is where !

you then have a choice - fix through the carriage OR fit pins into the deck.

 

if fitting with barrels attached i had some success in protecting the barrels from being knocked with small plastic caps fitted over the barrel outboard and wedged/taped in the port

 

But I found that I personally got on better fitting the barrels VERY late.

  

Few suggestions 

  • Depending upon position and referring two Fly/Pegasus some central ones can be fitted late fairly easily
  • In more inaccessible places temp fix the barrels at the carriage but sitting back on  it  -they can be brought forward into position and CAd through the port
  • Reduce the trunnions a tad (or fake the trunnions on the carriage) and they can squeeze through the port at a later

With fancier non kit guns two things I havent tried but seen

  •  with "rod" type through trunnions they can be "wiggled" baclk and forth sideways to get through the port for late fixing
  • or  (REALLY left field) fix the carriage and fit the trunnion "bar" on the carriage  and slot the barrel underneath to drop over the bar much later on

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Hi Martin

 

 

Why fix the guns immovable in place at all? On my last 2 armed projects (Granado and Pegasus) the guns are only hold in place by their rigging, by breach ropes and tackles. Thus they have a little sideward and longitudinal play of perhaps 2 respective 1 mm. Having some play and being not too rigidly fixed I think they take the occasional nudging quite easy. So far none broke loose despite some quite hard knocks.

I know it's too late to consider for the already fixed guns but you could try it in the waist.

 

 

Keep up the good work.

Peter

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Hey Martin, great to see you back on here.  I agree with finding some way of securing the cannons.  I can't tell you how many times I busted them off my Badger.  Thankfully, there were only a few cannons, and they were all accessible.  I think BE's approach makes a lot of sense - sleeves or no sleeves :)

 

Weather is heating up here too, and I too end up with more modeling time in the refuge of my cool basement.

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Thanks for the suggestions, you guys.

 

Spy --  those all look like good strategies, except that my barrels are all in place on the carriages, so there's no way forward but to deal with the gun in its entirety.  (Mem to self:  for future builds, leave the barrels off till later!!!!!)

 

Peter -- That's an intriguing idea.  Like Spy, I have to confess that my boatyard can often develop rough seas in which the vessel under construction goes through wild rolls and turns.  If the guns aren't cemented into place somehow, wouldn't they end up looking uneven, with some sticking out all the way, some pointing forward, some aft, and some -- who knows?  Maybe I'll experiment with one or two and see how they go.  Hey, I'm always eager to try out something.

 

BE -- Don't even ask about me how I learned the truth of that rule (hint:  it involved a handsome sweater knitted by Mrs W OTP, and a top gallant yard).

 

Mike -- I think DC is just about one or two degrees north of my own latitude.  The summers I spent in Middleburg, VA let me know that the weather there is HOT, HOT, and HOT.  I'm planning on heading over to your Charles P Morgan log right now -- see you there!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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The problem with retro fitting the gun barrels, except perhaps for the 'hidden' guns is that how do you then get to fit the trunnion cap squares, tricky little beasts to fit at the best of times, let alone the keys and chains.

.... but if perhaps you're not over bothered by such fripperies then the issue doesn't arise 😉

 

B.E.

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Not fripperies BE  - lovely details for those who can.

But  some make one choice and some have different talents. 

I was mainly talking about "under deck" guns  -where you can get top access then options are wider. 

But there is a model of mine somewhere which rattles - not only did a underdeck gun barrel become detached - it fell down my lovingly created totally unnecessary below decks hatchway !

If you want caps keys and chains the "fake trunnions" gives a possible route

 

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YIKES!  I tried out some chain way back when I first built the carriages, couldn't find any that was small enough, and gave up (ok, maybe I was a touch eager, but I knew I'd met my match).

 

One gun left to get the side tackle on, then I'm moving on to the gangways! (Actually, I've already started shaping the knees.)

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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I promised that I would post a picture of the guns when I got them rigged.  I had thought I would have them all done by Sunday, but they took a bit longer.  I tried finishing off the rigging of the first two while leaving the carriages un-cemented, as Peter suggested.  What I found is that the gun would move as I tried setting the eye & ring bolts in the bulwark, and pull the bolts out (blame my unsteady hands).  That served as more evidence that I saved many lives when I decided not to be a surgeon.  :huh:

 

So, here they are: 

 

594bc82de5887_GunsinWaist.JPG.9ded62940b72816076fe1e4ed27f6ba0.JPG

 

I've started on the gangboards, simply planking the kit-supplied thin plywood:

 

Gangboards.JPG.2a0e55f585a6a1dae6af74acccb9f212.JPG

 

These will need some kind of molding along the edges to finish them off (and to conceal the plywood base).  You can also see that the wider end is lacking the tab that would fit under the quartedeck beam.  I'm following BE's lead here in cutting the tabs off in order to abutt the gang boards a bit higher.  The purpose is to keep the forward ends a bit above the covering board in the waist, to allow the gangway to sit under the gang board.

 

One question I've asked myself involves the support of the gangboards.  FFM shows a knee -- either metal or wood.  These knees would be right up against the first knees of the gangways.  I am thinking of departing from that structural arrangement and supporting the forward inboard corner with a post.  Logically it would be an interference for the gun crew;  but in my mind's eye a post seems more elegant.  And it would follow the line created by the newel post above.

 

The knees for the gang ways will go in, however.  I've cut and shaped all eight of those.  Here is a sample of three:

 

594bcace2d8ab_GangboardKnees.JPG.36dfcd7c632e8ccf354ba634488c4c0c.JPG

 

The tops are angled in order to accommodate the shape of the bulwark.

 

I do wonder if I should perhaps hold off on the gangboards until I've taken care of the pumps and other details.  Hmm, I'm not sure.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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Nice sharp work on the Gangboards and brackets Martin, not too sure about a support post for the Gangway,  - aesthetics over practicality, hmmn, I'll await developments.;)

I believe I got around the problem by having one bracket that supported both the Gangway end and the gangplanks end that finished beneath it.

I wouldn't sweat it tho' once everything else is in place, you'll be hard placed to see anything of the fine detail.:rolleyes:

B.E.

 

 

 

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BE -- You've called my hand, and I'll come clean:  the main reason I'm thinking of the post is that I'm dying to use my lathe.  Maybe all that will come of it is that I'll make some posts, look at them, admire them, and then lay them aside.  Dunno how it'll work out, but it's part of the adventure!

 

Thanks for checking in.  And thanks to all who clicked on the like button.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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Hello old friends!

It is good to check back into your wonderful logs. My Fly is marooned but very safe and will float again.

 

Wonderful work Martin -  it is looking the part. You are well past where I got to when I put it on hold.

 

It is great to reconnect to your log,  B.E's finished work - what can be said but "amazing" - and I'll hunt out Landlubbers next.

 

My Fly hull with deck fittings complete is in the corner of my eye on a spare shelf every time I work with plastic kits. No guilt - plastic is really unforgiving compared to wood.

 

Sorry just a brief visit back - I'm rather addicted to WW1 plane models at the mo and the turn around time is very fast. But as a longer journey - HMS Fly will, by my hands, be finished one day. I'll start checking into your logs again in the meantime to re-light my juices.

 

best regards,
Alistair

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