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This may sound strange, but while doing the simulated caulking of the deck on my Harley almost a Harvey, I started wondering if the eye-liner products (for women) could do the same job as a graphite pen.

I have found that both the products are smearing if not being careful, but the eye-liner will do a better covering in one stroke.

Will update later with pictures. But this truly works! :)

And considering all the Admirals in our Forum it's time for you to open up the make-up boxes. You have a great tool nearby!

 

Please, visit our Facebook page!

 

Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics 
593661798_Keepitreal-small.jpg.f8a2526a43b30479d4c1ffcf8b37175a.jpg

Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan

Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS

Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey

Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry

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Please: some photos Per. I'm exactly at that point in my build.  :)

There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT.

 

Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina.

Last finished projectsRoyal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 

Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90;

Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models.

 

So much to build, so little time!

 

 

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 I cut my plaking strips and then use diluted glue (the consistancy of coffee) to glue them, in batches, long edge down on a thin piece of paper, like a stationary store sopping bag and then glue a thin strip across one of the short edges. After it dries well, the paper and wood soak up the dilluted glue nicely, I use my thinest blade and cut each plank away from the sheet, leaving one long and one short edge with a thin laminant of paper. I a use plain brown bag, but I suppose any thin paper would do. After that, you just plank keeping the laminated edges going in the same direction.

 It sands and finishes without incident. The finish will also highlight the paper at that stage. It's not really much work for an actual effect.

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I was wanting to try the black paper technique shown in Frolich's book on my Mordaunt build.After seeing Dr Mike's dvd and the fact he explains in great detail that normal black paper is too good a quality to still provide a structurally sound joint with glue.He chooses to use cheap paper and dyes it black with permanent ink.Determined to find a solution not as long winded as this,I stumbled across acid free,bleed resistant black tissue paper in town.I intend to carry out a few trial runs to see how this turns out,but it should still allow the glue to penetrate the timber.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

Edited by NMBROOK

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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So do I !!

Current build : Gorch Fock Occre

 

Completed non-boat build 1/16 Model expo Sopwith Camel - in shore leave.

Previous boat builds:

Amerigo Vespucci Occre

Yacht Mary

Artesania Latina Red Dragon (Modified)

Non-boat build 1/24 scale Dennis bus by OcCre - in shore leave.

Mare Nostrum (modified)  Amati Oseberg (modified)  Chaperon sternwheel steamer 1884   Constructo Lady Smith kit/scratch build   

OcCre Santisima Trinidad Cross Section 

Constructo Robert E Lee Paddle Steamer  Constructo Louise, steam powered river boat   OcCre Bounty with cutaway hull 

Corel Scotland Baltic Ketch (not on MSW) OcCre Spirit of Mississippi paddle steamer (not on MSW)

In the Gallery:
 Mare Nostrum   Oesberg  Constructo Lady Smith   Constructo Robert E Lee   Constructo Louise   OcCre Bounty   OcCre Spirit of Mississippi

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 Please pardon me if I sounded like I know what I'm doing. I've never built any kind of model before now; though I've planked a lot of decks and floors.

 I found an old AL Virginia Schooner kit, and some free time, and decided to give it a try.

 I didn't think much of the instructions or the kit parts so I've been improvising my way through it; stumbeling, is more like it.

 When I got to the decking, I was copying the way prefab decks are made by attaching the caulk joint to the plank ahead of installation. At the end of the day, they use an adhesive and vacume bag system to bind them into a panel, which goes to the boat rough fit. It's a cheat, sort of, but a big time saver on the boat. The quality is there, too.

 

Regards,

Steve

post-11706-0-18599300-1398199503_thumb.jpg

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I like the looks of that deck very much. Could you elaborate a little more on how to do it? I don't understand 

"the way prefab decks are made by attaching the caulk joint to the plank ahead of installation"...

 

Thank you.

There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT.

 

Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina.

Last finished projectsRoyal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 

Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90;

Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models.

 

So much to build, so little time!

 

 

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My trial with black tissue paper has been a success.Using a similar technique to Steve,the tissue was glued to the plank edges first,trimmed back and then the planks laid in the normal way.The glue fully penetrated the tissue so there was no issue of it 'tearing out' when sanding.The glue penetration was an important issue for me as this will be used on the hull planking and keel scarph joints as well as the deck.Having used a pencil for many,many years,I do feel that this gives a superior look that is jet black without the greyish tinge you get from graphite.The picture doesn't really do it much justice and the planks were rough cut for the test(I didn't even put a fine blade in the table saw)

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

post-1641-0-96365100-1398242413_thumb.jpg

post-1641-0-49113800-1398242442_thumb.jpg

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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For an unstinted deck I have used a pencil on the the edge and for a darker stained deck I used a black sharpie pen on the edge. Both came out pretty well.

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 Ulises,

  The prefab decking that I referred to is a process, I believe first incorporated as a manufacturing process, by a company called Teak Deckers, out of Sarasota, Fl. They go to a boat and make doorskin (1/8th luan ply wood) templates of the decks and ways and bring them back to the factory to make deck "panels". They leave the outside planks uncaulked, and the king and scallop planks out. When they bring the completed panels to the boat, they finish fit them, fit the king plank, and caulk the few panel seams and edges remaining. Two people can do in a day, what would normally take a week or more. The advantage, besides time, is less work or opertunities to damage something on the boat (the two are synonymous on boats), and an easy clean up without much dust. You can also make very fine listellos, and inlays in a more controled, ergonomic enviornment.

 I've done them this way and the conventional way. The conventional way is fun, but prefab is cleaner, allows more artistic flexibility and, of course, is much easier on the back and knees. You also need less tools and room.

 As far as what I did, Nigel seems to have put more thought into it, than I, to a fine result.

 Below, is just a quick set up for some hatch planks, with perhaps too much glue in my hatse to answer your question, just to show you my crude method.

Once dry, I trim the paper up and draw a thin, sharp blade down through the laminated width edge and back along the plank to the end. It's really very little trouble and I'm surprisd that this is actually news to anyone.

 The paper will take a dark color with most finish or stain that you put on it, in the end.

 

Regards,

Steve

post-11706-0-61986600-1398259968_thumb.jpg

Edited by shoule
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Thank you Steve. Appreciate the detailed explanation. :)

There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT.

 

Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina.

Last finished projectsRoyal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 

Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90;

Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models.

 

So much to build, so little time!

 

 

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I think your point is a very valid one Chris,I think much is down to the modelers personal preference.I did consider no caulking on Mordaunt,the main reason I went ahead was my choice of timber.Boxwood is very monotone and if I applied no caulking the result would almost look like a solid block of wood.Regarding the museum models,the many photos I have relevant to English vessels of my prefered period,the correct hull planking is not even adhered to.Strakes of pear are used several planks wide and the treenailing is a true mechanical fixing that holds these strakes on.On some models the hull plank lines have been drawn on with pencil!

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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To Chris's comments above: I suppose you are right.

 Things evolve, though, with notions and ideas over time. Who know what criteria they will focus on in ship modeling in another hundred years.

 Me, I'm looking at my first project as the boat builder that I am. Like Nigel, I wanted something to make the planks look individual and on purpose. As a boat builder, I would also caulk because when water gets trapped under the planks, the resulting decay would spread and undermine the structural integrity that I worked so hard for. Also there's also a need to plan for expansion and contraction, lest the planks loosen themselves over time. And, of course, leaks.

 Even now, in the age of composite construction, great care is given to seal every nook and cranny and provide a way for water to run aft and outboard, so that it doesn't stand.

 Is it necessary on a model, no, and to scale might not be even noticeable, but it's a detail that you can be proud of, if you choose, and one that was likely on the plate of the guy who built the boat that the model represents.

 But, alas, I'm a novice at best. I've only just graduated from "Lurker" and I will likely never reach the abilities of many here. Perhaps I'll go in a different direction, next time.

 

 

Steve

Edited by shoule
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You are correct Chris,I agree perfect model.He obtained plank definition by blunting the corners of the planking,at 1/36 this is more easily done than at smaller scales.Interestingly someone asks the question in the text.I am not arguing the point,each to their own,my favorite model also doesn't show caulking,interestingly by the builder who was discussing the issues with using paper:

 

http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/models/elite/le_ambiteux/index.htm

 

There are many other details that could or could not be depicted on a model,again all down to the builder's discretion.

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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I fully understand your reasoning and the choices you make Nigel. I have yet to wrap my mind around the methods and materials used by master modellers, be it kit, or especially scratch built. I was simply addressing my remarks to the great unwashed that find the modelling experience daunting and are very much influenced with the pro's work and advice and take it all as Gospel. When they (and I) come to the realization that our methods and attempts are considered sub par, then doubt and misgivings tend to slowly creep in.

Although some of my previous kits did in fact contain boxwood, decking was not part of the plan. I can very much see your point about boxwood decks having no separation, but the average, dare I say majority, of modellers use the wood supplied because they do not upgrade to an exotic wood for mostly financial reasons. Waste and mistakes also play a role. We will always welcome the advice and building tips from the more experienced, but I guess it is up to us to decide if these methods are within our grasp.

You are very much correct on the contemporary models. The publications that I have most definately show great deviations in hull plank sizes and widths. This is probably why I posted last year "Are measurements really that important?" I was just curious if the model maker followed what was built in real life or vice versa. (Boy, am I ever getting off topic here.)

 

Chris

 

Chris

I fully understand what you are saying Chris.I think a part of this hobby is to take on board what everyone says and use whatever you are comfortable with.I never used to caulk planking originally when I started then just used pencil from then on.Everyone has a different idea as to how their model should look.This doesn't necessarily mean following someone's lead,more follow your ideas.Over the years I have studied the works of many master builders and picked up snippets from many of them.I deliberately will not pick one and reproduce their techniques because then it is not my style of modelling.I would much rather look outside the box and think of how the model should look as I want it.I may have started this hobby at a relatively young age and been doing it for over thirty years,but I wouldn't regard myself as a master by any means,just further down the road than some,but not as far as others.

In essence Chris,do what ever YOU want to do with the model.I post on here because I want to illustrate my way of doing things,if someone chooses to use one of my techniques,then great,not then fair enough.I certainly don't want people to think that I believe my way is the only way.Like they say 'There is more than one way to skin a cat',sorry not very PC.

Your post popped up before I could post this LOL

In answer to your question all I will say,I have seen the deck caulking being done on the Cutty Sark refit and it was black tar.I have stood on the deck of Victory and Warrior and it is black tar.It does actually look like black mastic,but I am confident it isn't :D

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

Edited by NMBROOK

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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I've seen this gorgeous model Nigel - thanks for sharing !  As you've mentioned - its up to the builder to determine his/her own style.  On my Confederacy build I completely borrowed/stole Frolich's approach.  When I get to my next build - Im hoping to create my own style.  I do know this - I'm going to scale up - either 1/36 or 1/32 (which again seriously wondering why I haven't seen a ship depicted in 1/32 scale)

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Hi Chris

I think the 1/36 vs the 1/32 is a lot to do with the easy conversion from 1/48 .1/48 is easily converted to 1/72 or 1/36 whereas 1/32 is out on a limb and requires a little more work.I only recently bought Frolich's book as Ancre's marketing makes it come across as dictatorial.However upon reading it is very much the opposite of what they say.He states himself the book is only a demonstration of how he chooses to do things,not a definitive point of reference.I wish you all the best searching for your style Chris,this is the fun bit.Mine is still somewhere between Contemporary dockyard and Russian Palace :D  :D

Apologies to everyone for wandering off topic somewhat.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

P.S I would of bought that model,subject to winning the lottery :D but it has recently been sold for a tidy sum,but a little less than Dr Mike's going rate,so someone got a bargain :(

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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Nigel. I have that website on my 'puter'. It is my go to site when I require needed ideas and some info. I am still having trouble with the caulking issue if and when I decide to go that route. I doubt that period ships were caulked the way the perfectionist modellers do it today. I really have my suspicions that they caulked before a plank (a wonky one  was sometimes laid) before it was laid. As we all know the caulking was the final step because the planks would never be cut to fit exactly and by it's nature there were probably many gaps that needed filling. Also my point in my long ago thread. But what to do?  Get out a scalpel and force the caulking in after you have laid the decks. Now that I have brought that scenario up I am sure that there will be some that will say. "Yea, I am gonna try that to be historically correct".

I really want to know from the experts as to the COLOUR of the caulking. If I was to spend the time and trouble to accomplish such a chore BLACK would not be my choice. I would more than likely choose a dark brown pigment. But so far everyone seems bound and bent to use black paper, black markers or black cosmetic stuff.

I am starting to rant again. Where the hell did I put my pills anyway!

 

Chris

Apologies Chris,I did not read your post properly,if you choose to depict your caulking as brown rather than black as an aesthetic choice ,then why not.Steve's caulking does look nice with the brown tones.I was striving for Jet black as the model will be boxwood and ebony i.e. yellow and black.There will be a smattering of pearwood but those are the basic colours.,

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

Currently working on Royal Caroline

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  • 2 months later...

I have tried a number of methods of simulating caulking. I found that pencil graphite smudged too much when sanded. I used the marker pen method for a while - it worked OK. I've now come up with a quicker and (I think easier) method. Purchase a liquid shoe polish (in the colour of your choice) but get one with the foam applicator on the end.

 

Load the shoe polish into the foam applicator by squeezing the bottle while holding the foam applicator in a tissue. Mount the polish bottle (foam applicator end up) in a vice so that it is stable and slide the plank along the foam applicator - I find I have more control if I slide the plank along the foam rather than the foam along the plank (don't push down on the plank or the polish will go onto the face of the plank) The polish dries very quickly so you can glue it to the deck immediately. I only `caulk' one side and one end of each plank.

 

post-1505-0-13106200-1405127063_thumb.jpg

 

 

post-1505-0-91616900-1405127080_thumb.jpg

Hornet

 

Current Build: - OcCre Shackleton’s Endurance. 

 

Completed Ship Builds:

                                     Caldercraft - HM Bark Endeavour. (in Gallery)

                                    Caldercraft  - HMAV Bounty (in Gallery)

                                     Caldercraft - HM Brig Supply (In Gallery)

                                     Aeropiccola - Golden Hind

                                                        - Constitution

                                     Clipper Seawitch (maker unknown - too long ago to remember!)

                                     Corel - Victory

                                     Modeller's Shipyard - A Schooner of Port Jackson - In Gallery

                                                                      - Brig `Perseverance' - In Gallery

                                                                      - Cutter `Mermaid'- In Gallery

                                                                      - Sirius Longboat (bashed) - In Gallery

                                                                      - Sloop Norfolk - In Gallery

                                      Completed Cannon:   - French 18th Century Naval Cannon

                                                                      - Napoleonic 12 pound field piece

                                                                      - English 18th Century Carronade

                                       Non Ship Builds - Sopwith Camel - Artesania Latina

                                                                   - Fokker DR1 - Artesania Latina

                                               

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  • 1 year later...

Perfectly built model without any "simulated" caulking.  

 

http://5500.forumactif.org/t671-modele-le-gros-ventre-au-1-36-par-gbesson

 

Wow, I've just seen this posting - and unfortunately clicked on the link.

 

Oh my goodness, and I thought I was doing pretty well with my model - this is on another planet - the detailing is incredible.

 

In awe

John

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This may sound strange, but while doing the simulated caulking of the deck on my Harley almost a Harvey, I started wondering if the eye-liner products (for women) could do the same job as a graphite pen.

I have found that both the products are smearing if not being careful, but the eye-liner will do a better covering in one stroke.

Will update later with pictures. But this truly works! :)

And considering all the Admirals in our Forum it's time for you to open up the make-up boxes. You have a great tool nearby!

We never heard about Nirvana's experiment that I am aware of.

So I tried it with one of my admiral's eye liner and compared it to a marking pen on two pieces of the same planking wood.

 

Revlon does not excite me. The results are hardly any different in application and results. I didn't even take a picture.

There have been numerous suggestions here (and I won't go into what I use), so I will leave it up to 'what ever works for you'.

Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .

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A word of caution when caulking do up a test sheet smooth the sheet and put a finish on it.  In case of any smears or blotches.  

David B

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