Santa Maria 1492 by Dominic - Artesania Latina - 1:65 Scale

[fifthace]

Good afternoon.

 

I've been working on a few different areas at the same time today. I've planked the transom and whilst waiting for that to dry I fitted the 4 piece keel in place.

 

Back to the transom after trimming back and sanding smooth I marked the position of the rudder chain hawse and drilled them out, I also marked and cut the gap for the rudder itself. It's strange AL provided dimensions and position for the chain holes but gave no information on the size of the rudder gap, so I had to approximate it as best I could from the photos provided and the box art photographs.

 

And finally, I added my two marker planks for the 2nd planking. This roughly follows the slope of the main deck as opposed to the curvature of the hull.

 

[Mike Dowling]

_{Dom, I want to know EXACTLY how you decided on the position of your marker planks. Are they lying as they lay or have you bent them at all? Why did you put them so low? etc etc. I need this help!!!}

[fifthace]

Mike the position of my marker plank was dictated by many things, some of which unique from ship to ship.

 

Firstly, at amidships I usually start at the same level as the utmost mid-deck, then it depends on how that deck slopes from amidships to stern and amidships to bow. Most of the time, not always, but most of the time keeping in-line with the mid-decks slope from bow to amidships to stern will result in the plank being straight if you look at the ship from the side.

 

Sometimes depending on the type of hull however laying the plank like this will result in a slight curve upwards towards the bow/stern, and indeed on this one it does slope upward slightly at the bow and even more slightly at the stern, as you can see from the bow photo...however it looks straighter if you look from the side.

 

What I tend to find and someone can correct me if I am wrong is that this plank can be laid with no tapering either end, allowing it to find it's own way for the most part.

 

All that probably isn't very much help at all sorry.

Edited May 4, 2014 by fifthace

[Mike Dowling]

^{Nice try matey but I don't know if I am any the wiser really. Maybe you will understand now why I want to know exactly where these rubbing strakes go. I have put out a couple of feelers to other MSW members who have done the Bounty and I await their advice. I did bung my transom on today!!}

[fifthace]

Look on your plans as I said, they are marked on that. Yes I know that most of the strake is missing due to the planks showing the open side, but it shows you the position of them at the bow and stern, that's all you really need as they will follow a gradual curve between those two points.

[Mike Dowling]

^{I know Dom and I have tried but the pictures are just too small. Don't forget we are taking about 10mm on the whole huge model which doesn't sound much but makes a huge difference.}

[fifthace]

Well I can take a photo of my plans and give you the measurements but it's not going to mean a lot due to the difference in scale...

[Mike Dowling]

Any help would be much appreciated.

[fifthace]

Progress update. I'm quite happy with the way the 2nd planking is going so far, happy enough to provide some really close up photo's...

 

[jastrząb]

Hi Dominic,

 

Nice progress has been made so far. Neat and clean ship. Try to read the book made by Friends from this site : Hull planking for beginners http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf. I hope it'll be helpful. The way you plank your ship is nice but the layout of the planks differs in reality. Check it out Nobody's perfect therefore next time try to look round. 

There's another option, you may use a very thin 3rd layer of planks if you wish  

I'm not crititising - just trying to give you some help

Dominic, try to ask others - more experienced users of this site.

 

Can't wait to see more pics of your building log.

 

Regards,

Paweł

[fifthace]

Thanks...as I have said before on my other logs, I build for aesthetics, not for accuracy.

[jastrząb]

If so, go ahead

Edited May 5, 2014 by jastrząb

[fifthace]

With some more progress made on the hull up to the point where top and bottom have met at both the bow and stern, I decided to work on the stern itself.

 

I fitted the stern post and trimmed back the keel and after a few other modifications to shape/size everything fitted nicely. I planked the stern itself aside from two small area's at the very top where the upper planking hasn't been done yet.

 

I planked the curved transom, or part of it, so I could get the hawse and tiller holes cut to shape.

 

[clearway]

Nice work there, not done much on the nina as i have been planking my hms victory at the mo!

Keith

[marktime]

Your first planking and finish was superb. The square tuck stern looks very good too. What a pity you have chosen this unorthodox method for your second planking. And, yes, I respect your decision, it's your model but still....

[fifthace]

I've finished the lower planking, just the upper section needs doing before a good sand and varnish. Sorry no photo's this time.

 

 

Think I may put this project on hold though.

[BLACK VIKING]

I say go for it looks the biz to me .  If you like it that is all that matters  All the best Viking

[CaptainSteve]

Think I may put this project on hold though.

 

... and go back to the Sovereign ??

[fifthace]

Thanks Viking.

lol no Steve I've not got many issues stocked up yet. I've got a wee OcCre kit of the Bounty's jolly boat so am gonna give that a go for now.

Gonna get on my soap box a bit now...I know my planking isn't historically accurate. But must remember when it comes to modelling in wood I have but 2 years experience in doing it. I wanted to get to the point where I can plank to a standard that I am happy with, and I am just about there, before trying to make it akin to the real thing. Had I tried to learn to plank 100% accurate as well as to a high standard, I'd have given up a long time ago.

I had got to a point where I was confident when it came to the planking phase of a model...note emphasis on the "had". Doesn't take much to take the wind out of my sails, so to speak. Two days ago I would look at the job I was doing and was really pleased with it...now I look and just think "but it's not right"...pointless continuing on something now my heart isn't in it, so better to leave and come back to it.

[CaptainSteve]

Dom,

Dude !! Please don't stop now. For one thing, I'd be willing to bet that those of us who say your planking isn't "historically correct", are only saying so to encourage you to apply your obvious skills to do better. In addition, I'd also be willing to bet that, once you are done, NOBODY is going to point disdainfully at your model and comment that they don't like such-and-such ... the good details will over-power anything that may not be "correct". And, besides, apart from the population of MSW, just how many 15th Century Historians do you personally know ?? 

 

Anyways, what you have done looks quite good, and, as you have said, you do what you wanna do.

As do ALL of us ...

 

Damn, you wanna see a mess ??

Just check out some of MY work !!!

I change my mind on a regular basis, rip up what I've done and re-do it as a matter of (almost) normalcy.

But, you gotta remember, this is YOUR build ... do it the way YOU want to do it.

 

The comments from other builders - some more experienced, others not so much - are only intended to suggest what you COULD be doing.

 

Just consider this, if it bothers you, there's always a wonderful product on the market called Isopropyl. I use it so regularly that I should buy shares in the stuff. It removes glue.

Then you can re-do things !!!

 

Don't go chucking in the towel now, Dom.

Please !!!

Edited May 8, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[marktime]

Your response was exactly as it should be. Well done. All the likes and thumbs -ups are great but we only learn by making mistakes. This is a teaching moment and you now have an opportunity to stretch yourself. You can give up or you can say, "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well".

 

Don't think for one minute that we haven't been in the same position; as Cap'nSteve says, just check out some of my work.

 

Pic posted of a redo.

 

What is it about bending planks that you are unsure of? The curve up to the bow is not too severe, try doing a round tuck stern! I've posted a couple of pics that might help you. I hope you keep at it. All the help you need is here on this forum.

 

Click on the pics to enlarge them

Edited May 8, 2014 by marktime

[fifthace]

It's not that I am unsure of the process. I understand the process of planking using the correct type of stealers and drop planks etc, not tapering to more than 50% overall width and so on.
 
I try to balance learning with results as well. On one of my earlier models, even just basic tapering, (not following the rules), was a challenge to get the planks to fit snugly with no gaps. I ended up with a hull that had an unacceptable number of gaps in. Ok I had the luxury of the hull being white, so I was able to correct with filler and cover the evidence with paint.
 
I don't have that luxury this time, and yes whilst the work will be even more visible, it's preferable to a hull full of gaps.
 
I won't be stripping back and re-doing though, mainly due to my method of fixing the second planking in place using cyano gel. (Yes feel free to tell me that is wrong too), and Isopropyl won't work on the gel, I've tried
 
 
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not against taking advice, tips, things I've not thought of or even know etc...but sometimes it does feel that this forum isn't a good place for someone who doesn't have 10 15 20+ years of experience who can build museum quality models, the way that advice or information is delivered doesn't fill someone with the confidence to try to do something better...just makes them feel like they've not done a good enough job.
 
The delivery, like my planking, needs work
 
No offence is intended of course.

Edited May 8, 2014 by fifthace

[CaptainSteve]

Dom,

 

I built two ships before discovering MSW. To date, they are the only two I have done. On the first (HMS Victory) in one section, the hull needed so much sanding back from the planking errors I had made that it is paper-thin !!! Just touching it makes the hull flex.
It was, luckily, a double-planked kit, so I was able to cover up all those mistakes.
However, I was to make many, many more !!!

.

In the end (some FIVE years later). She looked good enough to me to proudly give it my brother, as I had intended at the start. Fast-forward some six years (and a further build) to when I discovered MSW. After seeing many far superior builds of HMS Victory, I almost shudder when looking at that first ship, nowadays !!

 

To this day, however, my brother still proudly displays it in his home and tells every friend and visitor that HIS brother made it.
(I have pointed out a number of the errors which I made. Just check out those bloody ridiculous rings I used at the corners of the sails !!!

What was I thinking ?!?!?!)

BUT, that ship still remains where it is !!

 

Since joining MSW, I've only just begun my next build, am half-way thru a side project AND have chosen at least three more that I'd like to do one day (Santa Maria is one of those). I've probably spent far more of the last year and a half reading up on how others have built theirs, on information about my current builds as well as all the tutorials and guides that I can find THAN actually working on my builds.

 

My point being that I have found MSW to be immensely helpful !!

 

Sure, some of my work has confounded other builders, Yes, I have taken some of their advice the wrong way. But, overall, that advice has forced me to make changes (again and again) ... until I became a lot happier with what I had done.

(And, yes, some of what I have done would most definitely NOT be "historically correct".)

 

I guess, what I am trying to say is, Don't give up, Dude !!

Edited May 9, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[CaptainSteve]

 

I won't be stripping back and re-doing though, mainly due to my method of fixing the second planking in place using cyano gel. 

 

 

Try acetone ... 

 

(Oh, personal experience, you may wanna buy the Admiral some flowers ... for when she asks where all her nail-polish remover has gone.)

Edited May 9, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[CaptainSteve]

Marktime,

Great save on your behalf !!

 

She looks awesome in your final pic. 

[shihawk]

Hi Dominic ,i could say all the usual ,Its your build and we are our own worst critics etc etc ,all of which are true ,and as i only have 3 years building  i do see your point about advice from more experienced builders ,but thats all it is ,advice !! In the end do it your way what makes you happy and if you ain,t happy i always think ,well i,ll remember and do it different in my next build . Personaly i think your planking looks great (im not being patronising ) if you google ,as i  have numerous pictures of builds many show different ways of planking ,very few are historicaly correct and many are amazing  . Im attempting a Victory build without paint and will have to change the position of the wales in order to simulate the stripes dispite   ADVICE  that this may not be correct , but if it looks right ,and time will tell,  im happy. Now for my advice !!  As regards the spaces in your planking ,it could be bad timber , it could be soaked timber drying out and shrinking ,but there are solutions ,if it were mine i certainly would not take it off ,my opinion,!! We all get frustrated when you see imaculate builds but remember these were probably built with top quality timber and fancy percision tools ,not blades and cheap files as in my case . Perfection in our own eyes is impossible ,striving for it takes a life time     Gee i talk some s--t  , hang in there i see you started your Bounty Jolly   don,t stop   Have Fun!!!

[fifthace]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

 

I must come across as a right stroppy diva! Really not the case. I think I may have over-reacted slightly for the reason that when you have done something you are really happy with and someone comes along and dismantles it with just a few words...it's kind of like a smack in the chops

 

Yes I know it's not the accepted method of planking. On a real ship that bow would have simply exploded outwards but I was concentrating, perhaps in hindsight too much, on surface quality. My camera doesn't help either. It's too good at highlighting things, in this case the rather, I believe the word used was unorthodox, Aztec planking, which isn't that visible with the naked eye. I was also playing the long game, as once sanded and varnished and then had all the ribbing added on, would barely be visible anyway.

 

I do think perhaps I had become complacent...as each new build I think, should I do it the right way this time...and I always convince myself no, get a bit more practice in first...my intention now with starting the Bounty Launch is that will require at least a few corrective planks, that will be my test bed.

[shihawk]

Thats the spirit .We all have off days !!!!!

[CaptainSteve]

Way to go !!!

I've already started checking out your new Jolly Boat build ... and it's coming along fine. Also noticed the little accident you had ... and the beautiful save you made to get around it.

When doing some research for my Bounty Launch build, I found something which claimed that the Jolly Boat was the mutineers first choice to cast Bligh (and the others) adrift in. But, it was riddled with holes and would most surely have sunk immediately.

So ... on the off-chance your build doesn't go so well, at least you be able to claim "historical accuracy" !!!

(Just joking, Dom)

[nat]

As you quite rightly state it's your own build and if it pleases you then that's all that really matters. But you also have to ask yourself the question what made you choose that way of second planking the hull after taking such care to get the first layer so smooth and clean? the base was there to get the second planking spot on! a little more research and taking the time to read the available FREE literature about planking would have set you on the course to get the planking looking realistic AND aesthetically pleasing.

There are one or two snobs and rivet counters on this site and they tend to forget or ignore that they were once novices themselves, however I see that you post on Modelspace as well and I think that is where you may have been lulled into a sense of achievement? quick one line messages praising your build doesn't offer advice it just inflates your own and massages the posters egos. Look around at the posters own builds and say to yourself is THAT what I want to build or do I want to take my time and do it right, it doesn'y take any longer to do something right than it does to do it wrong!!

Where the build is at the moment it wont take very long at all to sand of the veneer and start again and invest in a proper guide or take advantage of the free one on this site, and remember because someone posts a lot it doesn't mean they are a good modeller, it just means they post a lot!!

There are other sites on the net with plenty of capable builders, all examples can be learned from. You don't have to join most sites to be able to read and look at photos of build examples.

I'll stop my rant there before it goes on too long.

Regards, Nat.