HMS Victory by Morne Louw - Scale 1:38 (First wooden ship build)

[AntonyUK]

Hi.

I have a question or a few questions...

What type of construction are you going to use. IE bulkhead. Solid. Frammed. .?

And what timber are you planning to use in your build.

And do you have a forklift truck for moving LOL.

Sorry for all the question But I also am into building model's at a scale that lots of detail can be added.

 

Regards Antony.

[monello]

What type of construction are you going to use. IE bulkhead. Solid. Frammed. .?

And what timber are you planning to use in your build.

And do you have a forklift truck for moving LOL.

 

Hi Anthony

 

I'm going for the whole bang shoot ... Framed. Pretty much using Alexandru's model as my inspiration (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/570-hms-victory-by-alexandru-scale-148-plank-on-frames/) and also Remco's model (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/18-hms-kingfisher-by-remco-1770-english-14-gun-sloop-pof-148/)

As for the wood. I will be using the Oak from nicely weathered Jack Daniel Whisky barrels. I'll add a few pics below.

And a forklift... well Lets talk again in approximately 20 years when I'm done LOL

 

 

 

I bought 3 of these so should have enough timber for the all the framing.

 

When it comes to the planking I visit a company called Rare Woods who sell off-cuts in a bargain bin. I'll have to still figure out how I will be milling the planks to size, but that is still in the distant future. (advice is still welcome in the meantime)

[monello]

I have completed scaling and tracing the plans of the Keel.

Here they are printed, ready to be cut.

 

This weekend should then see the official start of my build...

 

[Mirabell61]

Hi Morne,

 

I liked your introduction to this build. Its going to be an ambitious Project for several years. Are you planing to fit out the interior from keel up deck by deck, cutaways ?

I wish you all the best for your keellaying soon

 

Nils

[mij]

Hi Monello

 

Take your time with your bulid.

We are all here to help if required.

 

 Kind Regards

 

 mij  

[guraus]

Hi Monello,

 

I see that you are starting seriously to work on this project. It has been a while since you were looking for the plans....

I am glad you didn't give up. 

 

Regards,

Alexandru

[allanyed]

Monello,

 

One does not  have to start small, nor with a kit.  I believe you can do it.  About 1976-1982 I built Victory   and actually sold it, then built it again.  Both were scratch and my first completed models so I know you can do it.  (They were NOT as big your model will be)

 

I look forward to following your build  log.

Allan

[monello]

Are you planing to fit out the interior from keel up deck by deck, cutaways ?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by cutaways :/, but I think I get the gist of your question. Yes I will be building her up deck by deck. Fitting at much detail as I can (time will tell what that last few words really mean haha)

I recently purchased 160 LEDs that flicker like candles so will even attempt to rig up lanterns that each flicker independently as if it has a candle in it. 

[monello]

Take your time with your bulid.

We are all here to help if required.

 

Thank you mij, So far this members here have been extremely supportive, its truly motivating me to at least keep the posts coming even if I'm yet to lay the keel. That will happen soon... promise

[monello]

Hi Monello,

 

I see that you are starting seriously to work on this project. It has been a while since you were looking for the plans....

I am glad you didn't give up. 

 

Regards,

Alexandru

 

Hi Alexandru

 

Yes your build (not to take away anything from all the other fantastic build logs on this site) was the one that originally truly inspired me. In fact I was Googl'ing something to the likes of "HMS Victory models ships" and found your log which lead me to this Model Ship World. 

 

I will be copying your work in many ways and really hope you don't mind. My tools are a few levels more amateur than yours, but lets see were this takes me.

 

Yes. its been quite some time since I asked you about the plans. I bought the plans at a smaller scale than I'm building, so I've spent most of my time since we last spoke to scale and trace them.

 

Thank you for checking in.

[monello]

Monello,

 

One does not  have to start small, nor with a kit.  I believe you can do it.  About 1976-1982 I built Victory   and actually sold it, then built it again.  Both were scratch and my first completed models so I know you can do it.  (They were NOT as big your model will be)

 

I look forward to following your build  log.

Allan

 

Hi Allan

 

That is good to hear. I will most likely take longer than 8 years, but who's timing us anyway.

 

Many people have commented on the size of the (yet non-existent) model, and I feel like a bit of a "cheat" as I specifically decided on a larger size hoping it would be EASIER to create all the detail when building from scratch and in my completely inexperienced mind that "cheat" still makes sense, however there is also another reason for this specific size... and it is actually a bit of a funny story.

 

After some research on the ideal model ship I'd like to build, I picked the Victory. (The reasons why Victory, are another topic all together.) So, as many of you, I bought the book  "100 Gunship Victory" (this is more than 10 years ago now). At the time I had no access to computers and scanners etc, just a photocopier, which happened to have had the functionality to enlarge drawings 250%. Immediately a light went on in this chronically-over-ambitious mind of mine.

 

The plan was simple: (1) copy all the drawings in the book and enlarge them 250%, (2) rinse and repeat.... and that got me from the original 1:192 scale in the book to 1:38, which felt like a decent size at the time. The only other problem was this copier could only print A4 size so I had to cut and glue countless sheets of paper, not to mention keeping all the sheets in order and I quickly realized I needed a better plan LOL

 

The point is that since then, in my blissful ignorance, I had my heart set on a 1:38 size model. Of course, lots of research later I realized its a tad larger than the average modeler's project, but what the heck, I'm going to stick to this plan... its too late to change my mind now anyway as I've done way too much planning and scaling on this size.

Edited July 2, 2014 by monello

[michael mott]

Sounds like you are progressing along well, I look forward to seeing the first pieces of wood lay down on the build table.

 

Michael

[allanyed]

Monello,

I assume you know of all the plans available at NMM, many of which can be found on their web site.  Details abound!  http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/79916.html is but one example from 1765.

 

Now, start making  some saw dust!

 

Allan

[monello]

Monello,

I assume you know of all the plans available at NMM, many of which can be found on their web site.  Details abound!  http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/79916.html is but one example from 1765.

 

Now, start making  some saw dust!

 

Allan

 

Hi Allan

 

Thanks I've seen those plans yes, very pricey. I think I'm sorted for a while with my McKay plans.

 

I did make some saw dust this weekend. I'll post some pics.

[monello]

This weekend I got a whole new level of respect for what you all do!

 

I started building on my model and as you can see from the pictures below, it did not go entirely as well as planned. It took me approx. 90 minutes to make 1 piece. I got as far as 2 pieces. 

 

The shape of the 2 sections of the keel I made came out fairly well, but as soon as I attempted the scarphs/joins I quickly knew I was in deep trouble.

 

 

I started with the piece of the barrel wood.

 

The lay the cut-out over it to get a rough idea if the sizes to cut it down to.

 

And cut it....

 

I then realized that I need something more accurate and effective than a jig saw to get this piece down to size.

I had no choice but to abuse the scroll saw and belt sander.

 

And eventually got it to shape you see in the first 2 pics.

 

Alas! I will re-start again the entire thing soon, but I did learn the following:

1. I cannot dream of doing this project without a table saw. 

2. I thought I'd be able to cut the wine barrel planks close to size with a jig saw, then plane them down to size with the belt sander and cut the scarphs with the scroll saw... was I wrong!

 

I will be saving for a table saw first as I need a way to cut the wood to the correct sizes. I wish I could afford a proper planer. (Any alternative tips very welcome). I guess I didn't do too badly to get the wood to size, but I spent way too much time on the belt sander. A table saw will get me much closer and be a lot more accurate.

 

As for the vertical joins in the keel, I will be using the Dremel tool on it's stand (workstation) with the router bit and a new angle table I built. A few tests I did worked okay, but it will still take rather long. 

 

I guess I'll be back as soon as I have my tools situation sorted out.

 

And so the learning begins...

Edited July 7, 2014 by monello

[tlevine]

May I suggest two tools for cutting the scarfs...chisels and a hobby-sized miter saw.  Actually three tools as you will need a way to sharpen the chisels as they become dull.  Make a bill of materials  for the thicknesses of wood you will need for the keel, deadwood, transoms and frames.  Then carry your barrel staves to a local cabinet maker and let them cut the wood to the correct thicknesses.  Although you will need a table saw at some point, this is relatively inexpensive and will allow you to get building sooner.

[pollex]

Hello Morne;

Your post reminded me of my very ambitious project 50 years ago. I had redrawn R.C.Collin's "Myrmidon"

from 1:72 to 1:24 giving a hull length of approx. 63". This was not the real challenge, as I had Dad's work-

shop then. Back then, there was little info available for ship modellers; certainly no Internet!  What I did NOT

know was that I didn't need to build the model in the same species as the original vessel! So I had demolished

an old oak gramophone box and trimmed very seasoned oak into 3/8" & 1/2" pieces. As a reminder, I still

have a deep scar in my left thumb of a slipped chisel. Had I used spruce, pine or cedar, I might have finished

the model, but I only got as far as completing the keel & keelson, stem & sternpost & several frames. :-(

Later, HAU's 2 volumes of "Plank on Frame" models became available detailing British modelling options.

Regards, pollex

[monello]

May I suggest two tools for cutting the scarfs...chisels and a hobby-sized miter saw.  Actually three tools as you will need a way to sharpen the chisels as they become dull.  Make a bill of materials  for the thicknesses of wood you will need for the keel, deadwood, transoms and frames.  Then carry your barrel staves to a local cabinet maker and let them cut the wood to the correct thicknesses.  Although you will need a table saw at some point, this is relatively inexpensive and will allow you to get building sooner.

 

Thank you Toni

 

I really like your suggestions!

[Bootes]

Get the beers out I'm also taking a seat. This is going to be a biggy.

In the way of tools may I suggest a small band saw, a table top planner/jointer and a table top table saw. I know there is expense there but the amount of wood you have to cut, plane, shape and sand they will certainly get a lot of use.There is always second hand kit out there.

 

Bootes

[DesertWolf]

Jislaaik Morné, if I knew you were going to attempt a 1:38 scale I would have suggested the Knysna forest and not Rare Woods in Cape Town!    Forget my comments about the table saw as well - you will need a much bigger machine! 

 

I can't wait to see your progress on this project and I hope you make frequent updates.

[Bootes]

Mmmmm gone a bit quite here are you still building. As Desertwolf said forget the table saw for now. You can rip and cut to width and thickness practically to correct size with a band saw, then a little sanding to finish off, you can also cut the scarf's on the band saw easy enough. A planner /thicknesser is good for squaring timber and getting it down to width and thickness quickly especially with the amount of timber you are going to machine. Trust me I' m a cabinet maker.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Bootes

[allanyed]

Monello,

Welcome to the club of redo, we all have a scrap box of mistakes.

 

I don't know about others but from my experience, oak was not a friendly wood in terms of cutting, carving, or chiseling and the large grain is not attractive in most model scales.  I know you have that lovely stack of dried timber, but this is something to consider and I for one would like to hear if anyone else has had bad experiences in using oak.

 

Allan 

[monello]

So it took me a while and many trial and error attempts, restarts, throwing tools across the room and a good dose of madness, but I build my own table saw. 

 

I was hoping the cuts would be more accurate than they are, but I'm going to use is to get the planks close to size (instead of perfectly on size) and then sand it to perfect size using the sander.

 

Started with a Circular Saw and added some Aluminium strips that extend the foot so I can attach the saw to a frame.

 

 

Made a frame and attached the saw to it...

 

 

 

 

Added a table top to it

 

 

 

And added some channels for the fence to run in 

 

 

 

And finally added a fence.

 

 

 

It works okay, but for all the effort of the last couple of weeks (this is version 3 of the saw!!) I was hoping for more accurate cuts.

So now I'll try to rip the wine barrel planks down to a cut list and HOPEFULLY... FINALLY have some progress to show on the actual model.

[monello]

I don't know about others but from my experience, oak was not a friendly wood in terms of cutting, carving, or chiseling and the large grain is not attractive in most model scales.  I know you have that lovely stack of dried timber, but this is something to consider and I for one would like to hear if anyone else has had bad experiences in using oak.

 

Hi Alan

 

I hope you are wrong, but I think now is the best time to find out. I'll see how is goes for now, but my biggest problem is getting the planks from curved to straight so that I have something to work with!

 

I may have to pay Rare Woods a visit and see if I can buy some more better wood. 

[monello]

In the way of tools may I suggest a small band saw, a table top planner/jointer and a table top table saw. I know there is expense there but the amount of wood you have to cut, plane, shape and sand they will certainly get a lot of use.There is always second hand kit out there.

 

Expense is the problem at the moment. I've spent so much already and still cannot get nice workflow going. I think the problem might be the wood I'm trying to size, It's all curved to the shape of wine barrels, actually whiskey barrels, so I need to figure out a plan to either work with this wood or buy some wood that is flat and only needs sizing. 

 

I don't know Am a bit discouraged at the moment. WIll see how it goes, but agree I need better tools.

[Mike Y]

Serious approach!

Maybe you can try to cut a few test planks from some more standard modelling wood, to see if the problem is in the saw or in the wood?

Also, what is the problem exactly?

If you show some photos illustrating it - maybe there is an easy solution for the problem.

[mtaylor]

Hmm.... that's an awful lot of blade sticking out of the table.  Also, do you have a way to lock down the fence?   If it moves, it'll throw your cuts off.

[DesertWolf]

We all get that feeling at some point.  I think if you have the right wood to work with things will be a lot easier.  Give Country Woods a try.  It's in the street behind Adendorff.  They will do a lot of the hard work for you by planing planks to the right thickness - all you need to do is rip it up in strips.

[monello]

Thank you all for the replies and advice.

 

I spoke with a gentlemen this weekend who is very good at woodworking (He has not built a model ship yet, but can clearly see the complexity of such a project). He gave me some valuable advice, the most important of this was that I should NOT use the barrel wood. The shape of the planks are insane and it will just be way too difficult to square these up into useable planks... it would take a lot of skill, experience and tools I cannot afford at this time.

 

So I will now be reading over all your comments again, as some of you have "warned" me that this is not the best wood.

 

I will go see Country Woods, Rare Woods. I'm hoping to buy wood that will be closer to planks I'll need.

 

I will go digging through this forum to find out what the best woods are, I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times.

 

So still not quitting, but still no progress either... what did I get myself into here?!

[wavanberkel]

Hello Morne,

 

This is very ambitous! Looking at the pics of your circular saw, I am a little worried though... May I suggest a blade guard?

 

I use the Proxxon Micromot Fet. It is very flexible in use. The blade can be tilted, the table extended , it is very quite........ and safe.

 

I dont know if Proxxon tools are available where you live, and what they cost, but I can recommend them.

 

Regards,

 

Willem