Ray Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share #331 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) All the fore deck fittings have been added to the ship, getting close to the hull completion, only the hamock cranes and netting to do. Gratings added Plus bitts and stove pipe Completed fore deck Edited June 7, 2014 by Ray fake johnbull, Brian Oates, mort stoll and 12 others 15 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 8, 2014 Share #332 Posted June 8, 2014 Ray, I was going through your log again from the start. Know its a pain, but would you be able to fix the missing pictures? Think you had a wealth of information and would hate to see it go missing. I'm sure you'd have my and many others appreciation. Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share #333 Posted June 8, 2014 Hi I did not know any pics were missing they all went on when the posts were added I will try and go through the log this week and have a look ( like now I quite often look in using my phone) and edit reload if I can. Does anyone now how plcs could go missing, that were ok when the post was first made ??? ahab1800 1 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 8, 2014 Share #334 Posted June 8, 2014 Ray, There was a hiccup during some server maintenance: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6021-server-maintenance-scheduled/ The problem has be rectified so it shouldn't happen again. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share #335 Posted June 16, 2014 Hammock rails and netting The hammock rails were added, and .5mm thread threaded through the holes, the netting I used on my Pegasus build looked to small and fine, I did have some other netting that I had from the Pegasus build, the problem being it was red, but looked a better size, so I painted it mat black and it came out ok, so I decided to use it. My method for fixing the netting, is to line up the netting to the top edge and sew it to the rail thread as it the photos, then tie the netting into the bottom corners of the cranes, and then trim to to hight of the other crane upright and sew as the first side, and then just trim up and tie in any bits that need it, and final touch up the paint. The hull is now completed with just a few touch ups required I will take some photos and add them soon. netting cranes added sewing on netting attachment=161383:sewing to top thread.jpg] netting finished mort stoll, aliluke, ollyweb and 13 others 16 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebob Posted June 16, 2014 Share #336 Posted June 16, 2014 The netting looks great, it really adds some nice detail to the build. WackoWolf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort stoll Posted June 17, 2014 Share #337 Posted June 17, 2014 Hi Ray, Great job on the netting. I have a few questions. Do not remember if I asked you this earlier but have you considered mounting swivel guns on her tops, bow, and or the stern? Are you satisfied with the kit supplied double wheels? They look somewhat thin. Thanks, Mort Quote Current Build - Caldercraft Victory Completed - Artesiana Latina Swift, Harvey, MGS Prince de Neufchatel, Imai USS Susquehanna, Mamoli Constitution, Rattlesnake per Hunt Practium, Caldercraft Snake, Diana, Kammerlander Duke William Waiting to be Launched - Bluejacket Constitution Proud member of The New Jersey Ship Model Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share #338 Posted June 17, 2014 Mort The Kit In my opinion the kit could do with a bit of an update, as I believe Diana is a very early Caldercraft kit,I don’t know if the later ones are better, it is, not as good as Victory models Pegasus or The Lady Nelson that I have previously built,but it is not a bad kit, and upgrading some of the parts is not that expensive, I have just replaced the birch dowel with walnut for about £18, I am just starting the masts and comparing the plans to the drawings in The Anatomy of Ships “Diana” they do differ so I am going with the masts in the book which are more likely to be correct ?I have found there customer service very good,they replaced a couple of missing items quickly and with no fuss. If you want to build a big Frigate this is still a great option but not for the beginner. The ships wheels You are right the wheels are two thin and should be twice as thick,they are very nice wheels spoilt by the thickness. Swivel guns I might add some but if I do it will be towards the end of the build I fitted them last on Pegasus so they did not snag up when rigging mort stoll 1 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort stoll Posted June 18, 2014 Share #339 Posted June 18, 2014 Hi Ray, I plan on starting the Diana upon completion of my Snake, in about 6 months or so. I replaced the Snakes wheel. It is the same as the one in my Diana kit. Interesting everyone raves about Caldercraft's customer service but it took about a month for them to replace the cleats that the Snake kit was missing and I mailed them 6 weeks ago and emailed them 2 weeks ago asking for more blocks also missing from the kit and I have yet to hear from them. It is frustrating. After dealing with Model Expos customer service one gets spoiled. I am going to take your advice, upgrade and order extra fittings and so forth from Cornwall Model Boats and not have to concern myself with Caldercraft ever again. I have dealt with them in the past - Cornwall - and their response time is great. Mort drtrap and Beef Wellington 2 Quote Current Build - Caldercraft Victory Completed - Artesiana Latina Swift, Harvey, MGS Prince de Neufchatel, Imai USS Susquehanna, Mamoli Constitution, Rattlesnake per Hunt Practium, Caldercraft Snake, Diana, Kammerlander Duke William Waiting to be Launched - Bluejacket Constitution Proud member of The New Jersey Ship Model Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share #340 Posted June 19, 2014 The hull is now finished and below are some photos. The next phase will be the masts and the rigging. SERVING this is one thing that has unoccupied my thoughts, serving the rope is one thing I want to do on Diana that I did not on Pegasus,so how to serve the parts of the rigging that require it, like the top part of the shrouds and the forward ones where the sails can rub according the Rigging Period Ship models by “Lennarth Petersson”. I have been reading through logs to try and find the technique needed to do said serving,and fairly quickly came to the conclusion that the only successful way would to be to use a machine,and the way forward would to be to buy one of Alex’s ones The Machine 2.0 an unforeseen cost at $100 or £62 delivered, but having upgraded the decks, and mast material, is the only way to go, so one was ordered from his website,it came in only a few days nearly as fast as ordering something from home,( I have yet to put it together) pay pal does have its uses . The other item just arrived is black Guterman polyester thread 6 spools for £6 on e bay, So mast making next and some serving practice. Mort I agree Cornwall model boats give a first class service I have bought all my upgrade materials and extra thread blocks & paint from them. mtaylor, aliluke, fake johnbull and 17 others 20 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted June 19, 2014 Share #341 Posted June 19, 2014 Ray, I don't think you'll be disappointed with Alek's serving machine, on a cost per minute basis its a veritable steal I've found Ray and jim_smits 2 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliluke Posted June 19, 2014 Share #342 Posted June 19, 2014 Ray That is stunning. Master class. I look forward to the next phase but I'm sure you are revelling in the finish of the hull - you deserve to be! Quote Cheers Alistair Current Build - HMS Fly by aliluke - Victory Models - 1/64 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34180-hms-fly-by-aliluke-victory-models-164/ Previous Build - Armed Virginia Sloop by Model Shipways Previous Build - Dutch Whaler by Sergal (hull only, no log) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted June 19, 2014 Share #343 Posted June 19, 2014 Ray - I think you should be very proud of your Diana. she looks great and will look even better once you get some string on her. Ray 1 Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort stoll Posted June 20, 2014 Share #344 Posted June 20, 2014 Hi Ray, Great job. You should be very proud. She is beautiful. I cannot wait to start my build. I am in the process of making a list of what I may need in order to upgrade and replace any potential part shortages for my Diana and Victory kits and am going to order from CMB. A fellow NJ club member feels that I should use my existing spare parts as on the real ships not all of the blocks or cleats would match due to wear and battle losses. He's probably right but I want everything to match, not that anyone might notice. A serving machine is the way to go. A friend made me one from a few gears and a crank. It is really simple not that I could ever make one. Mort Ray 1 Quote Current Build - Caldercraft Victory Completed - Artesiana Latina Swift, Harvey, MGS Prince de Neufchatel, Imai USS Susquehanna, Mamoli Constitution, Rattlesnake per Hunt Practium, Caldercraft Snake, Diana, Kammerlander Duke William Waiting to be Launched - Bluejacket Constitution Proud member of The New Jersey Ship Model Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_smits Posted June 20, 2014 Share #345 Posted June 20, 2014 Will also echo the sentiments that the serving machine is excellent. Makes serving a doddle! Build also looking fantastic! Ray 1 Quote Jim-----Current builds:HMS SnakeHMS HoodMechanical Solar SystemCompleted builds:HMS Ballahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted June 20, 2014 Share #346 Posted June 20, 2014 beautiful built ship Ray, also very nice pics, looking foreward to the rigging sequences... Nils Ray 1 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollyweb Posted June 20, 2014 Share #347 Posted June 20, 2014 Hammock rails and netting The hammock rails were added, and .5mm thread threaded through the holes, the netting I used on my Pegasus build looked to small and fine, I did have some other netting that I had from the Pegasus build, the problem being it was red, but looked a better size, so I painted it mat black and it came out ok, so I decided to use it. My method for fixing the netting, is to line up the netting to the top edge and sew it to the rail thread as it the photos, then tie the netting into the bottom corners of the cranes, and then trim to to hight of the other crane upright and sew as the first side, and then just trim up and tie in any bits that need it, and final touch up the paint. The hull is now completed with just a few touch ups required I will take some photos and add them soon. netting netting.jpg cranes added hamock cranes.jpg hamock cranes top thread.jpg sewing on netting attachment=161383:sewing to top thread.jpg] sewing to top thread...jpg netting finished sewing to top thread,,,.jpg sewing to top thread...jpg sewing to top thread.jpg fantastic work, I will take my cue to update the Unicorn Hello Gianni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share #348 Posted July 17, 2014 Not much progress as off late due to summer time,golf,fishing and two weeks holiday. The lower masts and bowsprit will be made from the kit supplied birch dowel and the rest from the walnut upgrade dowel. The masts The bowsprit was made first,the shape obtained by fitting the blank into my unimat lathe, and then profiled with files and various grades of sandpaper,diameters checked with a micrometer, the lower masts were made as well, I cross referenced the mast dimensions on the plans with those in Anatomy of the ship Diana so if my masts look different from the kit plans that is the reason, although the differences are mainly on the topmasts and the topgallant. The bowsprit has had the cleats ,saddles and bee parts added and painted yellow ochre lower masts just started. Bowsprit Masts started Beef Wellington, Barbossa, Bettina and 8 others 11 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted July 17, 2014 Share #349 Posted July 17, 2014 Ray, nice neat start to the masts, looks like you've got everything very square. Perfect timing for my question! Looking through the Diana plans it appears that the bowsprit is just intended to fit into a enlarged slot on the bow. This doesn't appear to have much depth and I was a little concerned that this would not be strong enough. Is that a valid concern? I was considering creating a proper hole and mounting the bowsprit on the gun deck to be a bit more authentic and give a bit more strength for the above reason. Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share #350 Posted July 17, 2014 Hi Jason you are correct the hole for the bowsprit is very shallow I have in mind to drill the end and insert a length of say 2-3mm dia rod and drill into the bowsprit hole to make a stronger fixing. mort stoll 1 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share #351 Posted July 21, 2014 Lower masts The three lower masts were made up next profiling as necessary and the fore and main having the sides filed for the cheeks to be added, they were then painted and the metal bands added I used black plastic insulation tape as seen in the photos, the cheeks and front fish, were added and also the hounds and bibs which are in one piece they then had the wooling added and the bands to the top square section, I have also started making the tops. Tops Mirabell61, realworkingsailor, schnu and 14 others 17 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share #352 Posted July 28, 2014 I have now completed making the rest of the mast parts,some differ from the plans as I have cross referenced them with AOTS Diana`s drawings, and I am going with the books drawings, for instance the fore mast, the top mast has no eight square section. All the sections were profiled in my umimat lathe, and all square or eight square sections filed ,some square sections were built up as required. As showed in the last photos the masts have been dry assembled (so if they look slightly out of line that’s the reason why).The lower masts and tops will be stepped into the hull next after the tops have all the required blocks fitted to them, and the rest of the mast parts held over for now, as I will next make and add the burton pendants and the shrouds to the lower masts before working up the masts. Masts Dry Fitted to Hull Bettina, ScottRC, aliluke and 18 others 21 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share #353 Posted August 11, 2014 Tops The tops have been completed and the rear rails added (I might add netting later) the tops have also had the blocks added as required. I did not like the kit instruction as to making the futtock shroud plates ,that hold the 3mm dead eyes so I upgraded using Amati ones as shown in the photos, which also included brass hooks as well these match the drawing shown in Rigging Period Ship Models. Fore & mizzen tops Main top Top on lower mast Upgrade futtock plates Bettina, Blue Ensign, fake johnbull and 9 others 12 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafine Posted August 11, 2014 Share #354 Posted August 11, 2014 Ray, I have just looked at your log and am really impressed by the quality and crispness of your work. Absolutely first rate. Bob Ray 1 Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted August 11, 2014 Share #355 Posted August 11, 2014 Nice solution Ray, you're lucky that Amati have these in the correct size - I had scoured around for alternatives on Snake a couldn't find anything in the correct size so ended up making my own. I'll keep definitely keep this option in mind! Did you make your own stanchions to support the rail are are those kit supplied? They look great as well, better than the 1x1mm wood option. Ray 1 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjdale Posted August 12, 2014 Share #356 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Ray, I don't know how I missed this log, but have just spent a very enjoyable few hours reading it through from the beginning. What a marvellous job you are doing of her - you should be very proud! I noticed that there are still a few pictures missing from pages 7 and 10 (no doubt from the server glitch a while back). I look forward to following your progress from here. Edited August 12, 2014 by gjdale Ray 1 Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted August 13, 2014 Share #357 Posted August 13, 2014 Great work on the masts Ray, love those full shots of Diana, she looks wonderful B.E. Ray 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share #358 Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks for the comments guys Jason the stanchions were some spares, plus some from brass spruce, I think they look better than wood ones would do and they are more robust. Stepping the lower masts now. Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share #359 Posted August 14, 2014 The tops have been fitted to the lower masts,and the lower masts have been stepped into the hull. Next I will add the shrouds to the lower masts, and then possibly tie the ratlines to each mast, as I go along, so as to break up the most tedious part of any build. Lower Masts Waitoa, VonHoldinghausen, Timmo and 13 others 16 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share #360 Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Rigging I must admit rigging is not my favourite part of ship modelling, rigging Diana will not be as daunting as rigging Pegasus was, as the rigging is very similar, and I will be able to use Pegasus as a guide, and something to jog the old memory bank. The main difference will be that I will be rigging the lower masts before adding the top masts,and I will be serving ropes as required. Serving machine , I assembled the serving machine and then did some practising to get the hang of it, so the rope is served and not wormed,I found the machine easy to get used to using, but it did tightened up a couple of times so I added flat washers between the posts and gears and a small amount of grease on the shafts it now turns very smoothly and has not tighten up. The Burton Pendants were made first from served rope and they have been added to the lower masts. Serving Machine Burton pendants fitted Edited August 18, 2014 by Ray schnu, Barbossa, Timmo and 11 others 14 Quote Ray Current build A set of HMS Diana`s boats @ 1/48 HMS Royal Marine a Military class Trawler Completed HMS Diana Completed build The Lady Nelson Completed Build HMS Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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