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Beavers Prize by Mike Y - 1:48, 1777, POF (Hahn style)


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I'm enjoying watching your progress Mike - if this is any help - most museum models from the classic period do not depict hull caulking. I find that a good oil finish will be enough to highlight the lines between the boards - at least on the hull.  For deck planking - a simple number 2 pencil does the trick.

Chris

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Hi,

 

My first 2 builds were kits, the Port Jackson Schooner which I built pretty much with what came in the box, followed by the Amati 1:60 Bounty which started off with what came in the box but after acquisition of McKay's Anatomy of the Ship book involved lots of scratch built details to increase the accuracy. The PJ Schooner was a 1 year effort, the Bounty 3 years.

 

For my next and current build, HMS Surprise, I decided to go for scratch build, at least for the hull and the woodwork. The metal fittings I will buy as I don't have the resources to make these up.

 

For me one of the most interesting aspects of the hull scratch build is researching to find original drawings which I could use, rather than acquiring a set of model plans prepared by someone else which would be their interpretation of the original drawings. I was given the Lavery & Hunt book which includes a set of ship's plans based on the Admiralty drawings, not drawings developed for model construction. It was then up to me to interpret these and develop a method of making up the hull as close to these drawings as I could. Plan preparation involved lots of scanning, scale changing and pre-planning to achieve as close as I could get to a true hull shape. One thing I wanted to achieve was a lightness of construction at the stern. Most kits seem to include a mass of woodwork to make the stern detail where the real ships are quite lightly built in this area, the stern was often the "Achilles heel" of these ships. I also wanted to achieve a "see through" look where the entire upper deck could be seen through the stern windows as if the ship was in "cleared for action" mode with the internal partitions removed.

 

So far so good and I am reasonably pleased with progress.

 

It is interesting to compare the hull shape that I have ended up with to the hull shape of a Mamoli kit that I was considering buying to use as a base for a serious kit bash. The Mamoli kit is much "pointier" at the bow and narrower at the stern and quite a different length to width proportion. I think that Mamoli must have a sort of generic hull design that they adapt to different models. Frigates like the Surprise were quite narrow for their length and the stern is comparatively wide, presumably to accommodate guns for the maximum length. These proportions would have made them fast through the water but they would have been hell in a cross sea!

 

Cheers,

 

David.   

Previous Builds:  Port Jackson Schooner  Modellers Shipyard 1:50

                          HMS Bounty  Amati 1:60

                                  HMS Surprise Timber Scratch Build 1:75

 

Current Build:    HMS Bellona Timber Scratch Build 1:75

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David, I did not have a courage to draft the first scratch build based on original drawings... So many research and chance of mistake is so big.

But that sounds exciting! I will follow your log.

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Making around 5 frames in two weeks, can't spend more then 20-30min every evening :( But it is a pretty good relaxation.

However, the result is frustrating. Yep, the wood colour difference again.

post-5430-0-65583700-1414440236_thumb.jpg

It looks like a frame built with three different kinds of wood, where only one of them is pear, and others are only technically pear, not something you consider as pear for a modelling.

 

Got really tired of that. But then I found a promising build log - La Belle by Hans Christian, where pear looks like pear! And colour is not varying, and finish is already nice. Thanks Hans for providing a better photos :)

His wood is from ArkoWood - www.arkowood-shop.de

Ordered new frame blanks there, all 60 meters of a cute pear. They do custom milling, and the order processing time is just 1-2 weeks.

The price is ok, just 150 EUR / 190 USD, plus cheap shipping, plus no import taxes or customs (because it is inside EU).

 

Will report when I will receive it, looking forward. It would be great to have a high quality supplier nearby, at least 4 out of 5 stars on a HobbyMill grade :) Truly hope it is my last whining about the wood quality.

Edited by Mike Y
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Mike

 

At least youre making the decision now as opposed to later down the road when it's a little late.

 

Anyway...Good luck on the build! I'll check in from time to time to catch up on progress.

 

John

John   B) 

 

Current Build: MSW 18 Century Longboat 1:48

Next Build:    MSW Bluenose 1:64

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Installed 7 frames around midship to see how the all look together.

 

post-5430-0-24248400-1414958031_thumb.jpg

 

post-5430-0-54315000-1414958045_thumb.jpg

 

Now it is starting to look ship-alike!

 

Very curious how the edge of a frame will look like when faired and sanded...

A shot inside the hull promises that there would be a lot of fairing to make it smooth :)

 

post-5430-0-79290200-1414958204_thumb.jpg

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Finally got in the right mood to make a rabbet. Was pretty scared, one mistake - and need to replace a section of a keel (which would be a good reason to add some joints though ;)

 

However, so far it works out pretty well.

 

Started with a slow and gentle cutting of a straight line, using inner line of a keel as a base:

post-5430-0-47572100-1415045728_thumb.jpg

 

That give a straight and parallel lines. Another proof that good jig means a lot.

post-5430-0-45919300-1415045810_thumb.jpg

 

Then cutting away a strip in between, and smoothening it with a triangle-shaped file:

post-5430-0-34657400-1415045824_thumb.jpg

 

Decided not to make a big fat rabbet, will either widen it later, or shape the edge of a gardboard plank, so it will tightly fit into the rabbet. It is anyway better than an ugly gap between gardboard and keel, if rabbet is too wide.

 

Position against the frames is ok, just a minor adjustments required for some frames:

post-5430-0-00562100-1415045858_thumb.jpg

 

But that was all games, now need to continue the rabbet on the stem:

post-5430-0-43771900-1415046025_thumb.jpg

 

How to make a nice curve - no idea. Can't come up with any jig idea, because there is no base line to attach to. 

There is no chisel to make such curve. Trying to scratch it by hand will fail due to a wood grain.

Thinking of making an acrylic template, and scratching the line using that template. 

Or there are some better tricks? Would appreciate your advices!

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Mike,

The rabbet looks great.  Use a test plank to finesse it as it's easier now while the keel can be removed than later when it's glued into position.  (Don't ask how I know this. ;) ).

 

As for the stem, is it glued to the keel?   The template is an excellent idea.  My stem is two pieces that mate.  On one piece, before glueing them together, I carved in the rabbet and then finessed it in place.  Fiddly work.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Mark, you are totally right - rabbet follows the shape of the keel, I should have carved it before gluing the stem. You see on a photo that rabbet pencil marks are parallel to the glue line bonding keel and stem.

But now it is too late, I did a classic mistake of gluing parts too early :(

Will try to make it with a template.

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Mike

If I may make a suggestion ....

Think  of it as an opportunity not a mistake!   :)

You get to solve a puzzle by having to think outside of the box.

 

BTW - I might have done the same thing

Alan

Alan O'Neill
"only dead fish go with the flow"   :dancetl6:

Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class

Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014)

Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021)

Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)

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Alan, with your level of planning, I am sure you will end up with an ultra detailed IKEA-style assembly sequence before the construction actually started :)

Thanks for encouragement.

I think I will just use brute force - no jigs, just a very slow and gentle carving. No coffee, no beer, steady hand and a lot of practice before.

Hate that things, it is no longer a technological process, but more of an art.. You do not need an art if the process is good!

Edited by Mike Y
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If you could only hear me laughing ... you nailed me perfectly!

 

Problem is, usually my plans make perfectly good sense in my head but somehow don't always follow my plan in real life.

 

As Druxey would say, make sure your carving Knife/Chisel have a really good edge before you begin

It makes a world of difference.

Edited by AON

Alan O'Neill
"only dead fish go with the flow"   :dancetl6:

Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class

Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014)

Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021)

Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)

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Where were the IKEA instructions when I needed them.   :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

 

Mike, I really enjoy your build.  Freehand cutting makes me very nervous as well.  I would make a jig or use ships curves.  Keep up the great work.

Jack

 

"I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning" apologies to John Melius

 

Current Build:      Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section Scratch Build 

                             

 

Previous Builds:  Oseberg Billing Boats 9th Century Viking Ship Modified

                            Bluenose ll, AL, Lightly Bashed

                            Louisa Morrison Half Hull, Scratch Build

 

Photography Website:     http://www.27birds.com

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Discovered an amazing tool shop that also sells a high quality Swiss made chisels :)
(Followers from Stockholm - it worth to visit Slöjdetaljer, but you probably already know about that place)
Got two tiny chisels - one V shaped, one U shaped, and a carving knife. Pricey, but a good quality.
Now practicing a lot to be able to hand-cut a smooth curved rabbet, and maybe even draught marks ;)

Edited by Mike Y
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Looks like I am becoming a hand tools fetishist.. There is something nice about working with a high quality chisels and knifes - no noise, no sawdust, and you feel like making a pinocchio :)

 

post-5430-0-18393500-1415656367_thumb.jpg 

 

Especially surprised with the knife - it is the sharpest knife I ever held, it make a clean cut without any pressure, and it is heavy and sharp enough to ignore the grain direction!

But it reminds that as with any hand tool - you need to practice and learn a lot to use it nicely...

post-5430-0-83271300-1415656652_thumb.jpg

 

 

The shape of a rabbet was asymmetrical to meet the planks on a proper angle:

post-5430-0-44181700-1415656395_thumb.jpg

 

Result is not perfect, there are a few ooopsies, luckily most of them are on the inner side, which would be invisible.

post-5430-0-50533400-1415656457_thumb.jpg

 

post-5430-0-53372800-1415656489_thumb.jpg

 

I will not cut a rabbet on a side that would be fully opened. Not able to cut it smooth enough to make it fully exposed.

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Hooray! Received my new wood for frames. 

  • The colour variation is much smaller.
  • Arkowood one is creamy and pink. Same colour as on Lumberyard laser cut parts, where the "prime grade" pear is used.
  • Maximum thickness deviation is around 0.05mm (0.002 inches). My micrometer have a 0.05mm precision, so it is basically as correct as I can measure..
  • Number of planks with defects (grey spots, etc) - 5 planks out of 60 (just 8%), which is quite ok
  • Wood is already sanded with a fine grit
  • Small wood deviation together with fine finish means a lot of time saved on sanding the frame to the uniform thickness and smooth surface.
  • Planks are perfectly straight and not curved - saves some efforts when trying to cut the frame blanks on a proper angles.

But better look on pictures. Both woods are called the same, it is swiss pear aka steamed pear.

 

Box on top - Lumberyard, box in the bottom - Arkowood.

post-5430-0-05018200-1415823459_thumb.jpg

 

Left - Arkowood, right - Lumberyard. Notice the finish difference, Lumberyard wood is very rough, looks like sanded with 60 or 80 grit. Arkowood looks like sanded with 300-400 grit, or maybe even higher. It is very smooth!

post-5430-0-08724300-1415823885_thumb.jpg

 

Also ordered some sheets, just to try.

Left - pear, center - Castello boxwood, right - ebony

post-5430-0-02968400-1415823988_thumb.jpg

 

Ok, now I am finally happy with the wood I have, time to redo 9 frames that I already assembled :) 

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Congrats on the arrival of your new wood Mike. Looking forward to seeing your new frames.

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John, as far as I know, Hahn did have any rigging plans for Oliver Cromwell.

So you will need to do some research, like finding a similar frigate with rigging plans (for example, Pandora is quite close, and there is Anatomy Of The Ship book for it).

 

There is a very little documentation about Oliver Cromwell, so I doubt you can find a precise rigging plans...

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Good looking wood, Mike.   I'm happy to hear that you finally got what you wanted.   That Lumberyard pear doesn't look at all like Swiss Pear. It looks more like regular unsteamed (or unSwissed if you like) pear.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Remco, your bet is spot on - after I tried Castello on my previous build (see longboat) - can't use any inferior wood anymore :)

 

P.S.: next update would be in a few weeks, started a batch of 10 frames :)

Edited by Mike Y
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Cutting frames... 

Using belt sander to make sure that edges of frame blanks are straight. it is not very suitable for that job, but do not want to buy disk sander just for that..

 

post-5430-0-11390200-1416163645_thumb.jpg

 

In a meanwhile, looked critically on a laser cut keel. It has some grey spots (that are not dirt, but wood defects)

post-5430-0-85680600-1416163786_thumb.jpg

 

And some funny shaped "stain" inside the wood right on the stem:

post-5430-0-17618900-1416163849_thumb.jpg

 

And more important - it looks too simplistic / unrealistic for my taste. You really can't build a ship with a stern made of two giant pieces of wood. I miss a complex joints, tar simulation using black paper, etc.. Stem would be very visible, and it should be done right.

So decided to re-do it using new pear (to match the colour of the frames)

 

Since I had no drawings of keel structure for exactly that ship - I made a mix based on some photos from other build logs, AOTS book about Pandora, etc.

 

post-5430-0-89079000-1416164052_thumb.jpg

 

Loooots of sanding ahead! Maybe I really need a proper disk sander ;)

Edited by Mike Y
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Mike,

 

Nice progress. A disc sander would be a very worthwhile investment for you. It is probably the single most used tool in my shop. Very useful for shaping outside curves on frame pieces, as well as squaring off ends as you're trying to do now. You can sand any angle and/or bevel on small parts too. It's a hugely versatile tool and will save you many hours and lots of frustration. I can highly recommend the Byrnes disc sander, but others like Proxxon would no doubt be very good as well.

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I concur

An extremely useful tool for the shop

Alan O'Neill
"only dead fish go with the flow"   :dancetl6:

Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class

Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014)

Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021)

Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)

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